Thorn LowRider measurements

[Pavel]

Could someone do me a favor and, if you have one, measure the exact distance of the thorn front rack for me.  I'm interested in the max distance between the top rail ends, where the clips that hold the panniers slot into. The thing is that I have both carradice and Ortlieb front bags along with a tubus ergo rack but I find it less than perfect because I like the thought of installing the front panniers so that the front clip keeps it from sliding forwards and the rear top clip set so that it wedges in and keeps rearward movement at bay.  Then the bottom arm is there to keep it from flapping away from the rack and perhaps also helps keep the load shifting forwards as well - if that all makes sense.  If I have the exact measurements and can see that I can spread the clips wide so they just fit then I will probably replace the Ergo's with the Thorn front rack.  I do wish however that there was a choice to mouth the load in two positions, low as well as high. 

Thanks!

[JimK]

I got 7.25 inches or a tad less. 184 mm.

[Pavel]

Thanks Jim!

[JimK]

BTW I have the Carradice front panniers and they fit just like you want.

[julk]

Pavel,
Some feedback which may be relevant to you.

I have used Tara, Ergo, Duo and Thorn low rider racks.
All good racks, but it was impossible for me to get the front hook as far forwards as I wanted on any except the Duo rack due to the construction with a sloping support tube getting in the way of the front clip. The Thorn rack gave me the most difficulty…
All the racks worked, but I wanted the front hook further forward to spread the load along the pannier top.
I now use Arkel hooks which surround the horizontal support tube rather than just hang over, but had similar difficulties with Carradice Super C clips.

I hope this helps.
Julian.

[Pavel]

Julk that is very good to know.  I find that on the ergon, not only is the top rail too long but the front slopes upwards as the tube rises up to wrap around to the other side and that makes it necessary for the  front clip to be well back and then it seems that none of the parts have a good snug fit no matter what I do.

Can you explain how the Thorn rack causes issues? I tried to imagine it but can't quite picture it.  I take it that the Arkel hooks only work on Arkel bags, right, and can't be retrofitted.  I recently noticed that carradice sell extra hooks and wondered if that would be overkill or just good bulletproofing?

[JimK]

I haven't actually used front panniers, so I can't comment on loading, handling, etc. But here are some photos that might help clarify whatever...

[julk]

Jim,
Thanks for the photos - excellent.

Pavel,
The photos from Jim show how the Thorn rack has three tubes meeting at the front, The Carradice and Arkel hooks protrude enough underneath that they won't fit right at the front, they get close though.

I was also having great difficulty using my Super C hooks in winter with cold hands and retrofitted the Arkel Cam Hook system to my Super C panniers - a simple job as the Arkel support rail bolts on and replaces the original one as fitted on the pannier rear/top. Arkel do sell a complete retrofit kit.

As I said before every combination worked ok, but for me the Arkel hooks and the Tubus Duo have given the best result. The Duo and Tara have the worst tube positions for the lower anti sway hook, but I live with that.
Julian.

[JimK]

the Thorn rack has three tubes meeting at the front, The Carradice and Arkel hooks protrude enough underneath that they won't fit right at the front, they get close though.

I have my hooks spread about as far as possible - the pannier doesn't have significant play. I just measured the distance between the outer edges of the hooks - that was 176mm. That's 8mm shorter than my earlier measurement of the gap between the stops at the rail ends. I expect that is because of the sloping front support getting in the way. I can try to get a photo of that detail if it's important to anybody.

Yeah, those Carradice clips are a bit fussy. I can imagine some cursing under cold conditions!
 

[Danneaux]

Pavel,

I am running Ortlieb Sport Packer Plus front bags with the QL-2 mounting system, just as you show on your Moulton. I have the hooks set as below, and they lock onto the rack allowing no fore-aft movement, just as you desire. [EDIT: The front hooks look just like Jim's Carradice ones, shown so nicely in his photo above; they wedge into the same location, limiting movement]

The stabilizer fin at the bottom is set in the lower track of the oval, with the adjustment locking knob at the front and hook pointing rearward and horizontal. To attach the bags, I just swing them onto the racks from the front, engaging the bottom fin and then dropping them down on the top rail. Removal is the same, off and forward in one smooth movement.

Two suggestions: 1) Make sure you wrap the racks with something to prevent the glass-filled nylon Ortlieb hooks from taking off the paint, and 2) I always use a vertical compression strap to minimize any little jigglings that could occur. I do believe the compression strap does wonders for rack, bag, and contents lifespan by limiting second-order vibrations (i.e. the "Wham" of dropping into a chuckhole is a first-order vibration; the bag and contents lifting and settling onto the rack as a result of hitting the chuckhole comprise a second-order vibration).

Hope this helps,

Dan.

[JimK]

Here are a couple more shots where I try to capture that front end of the rail where the sloping support constrains the pannier hook. Note with the Carradice that it is not the actual black top hook that prevents the pannier from sliding forward, but the grey underhook that rotates to secure or free the pannier - that grey under hook hits that sloping support of the rack.