Author Topic: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount  (Read 12095 times)

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2012, 10:59:25 PM »
Getting closer here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1rlZWkF22Y&feature=related

Now, do I want to put my really good camera on one of these, or would I be better off using a ruggedized POV cam like the GoPRo Hero2? See: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4117.0

Best,

Dan.

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2012, 05:29:54 PM »
I have a cheap Kodak ZX1 sports camera that is permanently mounted on the bike, not taken off when I leave the bike parked. I reckon it is so cheap, if it is stolen, I won't cry too hard. But the problem was always how to hold it still enough to take a decent picture. The solution turned out to be a Gorilla Pod tripod I bought on impulse at Lidl for about ten or twelve Euro, on the net for less. It has three bendy legs with rubber bobbles and at the top a quickly removable camera mount which you carry away mounted to the camera so that on your return the camera's angle of vision is maintained. I've mounted it to the handlebars and stem (you need three points or two with one of them somehow braced), to the rack, to a telescopic cross country walking stick (with the strap used as the brace!), to my ankle, etc. Best camera mount I ever had on my bike, or anywhere for that matter. Not overly durable, at least in the version I have, as one of the rubbers is already split, but I don't care. I'll buy a good one to replace my cheap copy when it lies down and dies.

Andre Jute

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2012, 08:47:22 PM »
Thanks very much, Andre; good suggestions all.

I wonder if an inverted Gorilla mount might just fill the bill for an extended-pole high-angle mount. If the threaded portion could engage the pole mount, then the three "arms" could be configured to cradle and hold the camera? Thinking out loud, but there are some intriguing possibilities here.

Man, I so often wish Forum members were real neighbors instead of virtual ones. It would be so nice to see Forum members' wonderful bicycles firsthand and have a verbal chat rather than this adaptation of telegraphy. Ah, well, the Forum will have to do.

Good idea about using a "sacrificial" camera, Andre. The consequences are so much less if disaster strikes -- as it inevitably will, in this application.

Keep the ideas coming; all are welcome!

Best,

Dan.


Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2012, 12:27:35 AM »
I wonder if an inverted Gorilla mount might just fill the bill for an extended-pole high-angle mount. If the threaded portion could engage the pole mount, then the three "arms" could be configured to cradle and hold the camera? Thinking out loud, but there are some intriguing possibilities here.

You'd better wait until you see the Gorilla Pod and can study the quick release, which is a little rectangular brick of plastic with a tripod fitting to attach to the camera. It sits inside a rectangular hole at the top of the gorilla pod and is released from it by two pushbuttons on the short ends. The bendy legs are quite long and will hold any camera you could contemplate bike-touring with securely at any angle you want. But whether I would trust my camera to the upside down quick release clip would depend on how heavy the camera is. I'm happy to trust any of my cameras to the thing in its normal upright orientation, because in that position it is largely failsafe unless you hit a really huge bump (and I routinely have quite a few large impacts through substantial potholes and have never had the camera pop off, though I tie the camera lanyard in failsafe mode too, just for belt and braces). If your pole has a lanyard, it doesn't matter that it is round and slippery. Two of the gorilla legs go around the pole, and the third one straight-arms the pole's lanyard, and with a bit of fiddling you can get a stable fit. Or you can tie one of the legs to the pole with tie wrap and just wrap the other two around the pole. You'd be surprised how easy it is to get a good steady position. (Not firm, as the point of the gorilla is the rubber around the legs absorbing road vibrations, so that the camera, instead of having jitters that make the film unusable, seems to be on a vehicle which sways gently.)

Andre Jute

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2012, 07:38:24 PM »
Hi All!

I do have an update on the high-angle vidcam-mount saga.

I thought I had found the solution in either a Contour or XShot/XShot 2.0 monopod/extender ( http://xshot.com/ , http://xshot.com/products/xshot-2 ).

These things are small, light, sturdy, and ideal, even having a wrist strap that can be removed, revealing a threaded female mount compatible with my Rowi camera clamp or a standard tripod mount. The original plan was to clamp my Rowi camera clamp (with its very nice and sturdy tilt-ball head) to wherever I desired on the bike, then fit the extender to it and fasten the camera to the end. Boom; done deal.

Not.

The trouble is (and there's always something, it seems) is these extenders have nothing to prevent rotational movement. Their shafts are simple telescoping sleeves and over time, they loosen to the point where they don't have much rotational resistance. The camera mounts are off-center and when you put a camera on one that has been used awhile and subject it to vibration, the camera tends to "clock" around the shaft. While this gives some really interesting and creative camera angles, I've generally had greater success when I control the process. I really think these things would be great for occasional handheld use.However, in this application where they don't work well, and the rotational thing becomes a big issue over time. A GoPro Hero2 camera in its waterproof case is a surprisingly heavy thing. 9.4oz/270g on my little scale with its LCD back and the larger case-back needed to accommodate the add-on screen. More than enough weight to wind up upside-down at the end of a POV (Point-Of-View camera) extender.

So.

The next plan is to go for a monopod instead. A monopod is like a tripod, but with only one leg. It provides a steadier perch for your camera than hand-holding, and/or may provide a bit more vertical reach for taking shots above the heads of a crowd. Monopods are (or can be) cheap, as little as USD$15 with free shipping on eBay for ones I've already checked out as reliable enough to use. They come in sleeved round or oval stock in various end diameters, and -- most importantly! -- have cam-lock clamps to keep the extended pole steady and prevent rotation as well. most that extend to 67in/1.7m collapse to only 21in/~53cm, ideal for carry with my rack-top drysack of about the same length/width. Cool.

The trouble (of course there's trouble!) is what makes a monopod perfect as a monopod makes it imperfect for my use.  The big end is at the top, and ends in a male fitting for the camera's tripod socket. I need a female fitting there to attach to my Rowi camera clamp. The solution is a double-ended coupler nut, which I can even make from aluminum hex stock I can thread myself.

The other problems are a bit more difficult to overcome, but manageable. The little end of the monopod is at the bottom, where I'd like to attach my camera. Unfortunately, the bottom ends of monopods end in a) a rubber foot, b) a pointy spike, or c) a little lever so you can stand on it to steady the whole works. None comprises a mount for a camera.

The solution to that seems to be a GoPro or Contour bike handlebar mount, provided I can get a monopod with the proper diameter to fit the mount well.

So, the setup would be:

1) Rowi camera clamp attached in one of a variety of places on the bike.
2) threaded onto that via a coupler nut is a monopod of varying length, with locking sections to prevent collapse/rotation.
3) Bike adapter for camera attached to end of monopod.
4) depending on location, monopod would be stabilized by Spectra cord or Kevlar cord guys ending in locking nylon clips (I have just made some up; look good and viable for the task). The weight of the camera/monopod assembly would be partially suspended by the Spectra/Kevlar guys and anchored with the solid clamp.

I have already tried the GoPro helmet j-hook extension to see what luck I might have with that. Not so much. There is (as expected) an extreme amount of fish-eye distortion. Besides, adding another 9 ounces to a stick on my helmet is not very comfortable, especially when riding on rough roads, so that idea is out. There is another issue with that, and it is a little disorienting for the viewer: The head and helmet appear to remain stationary while the rest of the world rotates around them. Kind of an anti-Copernican view of the universe on a small scale.

More later as trials continue.  There are also some unexpected but related issues with the GoPro Hero 2 camera that I'll be covering in this thread: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4117.msg19982;topicseen#msg19982

By the way, I have now tried a variety of lesser vidcams with removable or built-in flash storage and found -- despite ratings for sports use and the implications of ruggedized cases for water- and dust resistance -- they do not work worth beans for tracking and recording smooth motion when they are also in motion. For holding still and maybe slowly panning off the bike, they're fine. For capturing passing motion while on the bike...no. Their processors and write speeds are too slow to capture smooth motion, especially with built-in memory. I have also come to the reluctant conclusion that for capturing smooth video on flash (SD cards, in my case), there really is a difference when it comes to a card's rated speed. Even if a device (say, the Go Pro Hero2) is rated to use Class 6 cards, you will get fewer artifacts (mosiacs, green-screening) at the margins with a Class 10 card. If you shop carefully, good ones are pretty cheap. I just got a Class 10 32GB SDHC card for USD$19. Beware of the ones you see too cheap on eBay, as the ratings are often optimistic or outright wrong (to the point of being mislabeled) in my own write-speed testing.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 09:32:27 PM by Danneaux »

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2013, 03:51:52 AM »
Hi All!

It has been awhile since I updated this topic, though I've been working on the problem from time to time since the last post.

I've made some progress and today uploaded my first and second attempts recording video with my latest camera extender on a Tour de Neighborhood, traveling the streets near my home between rainstorms on a lovely Spring day. My blue rando bike stood in for my Nomad for these. You can see the videos on my YouTube channel here:

First try: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clzgTbvMmTw
Second try: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDnXAS318lg

The real trick was to damp vibration so the results resemble what one might achieve with a steadycam.

Unfortunately, this latest prototype is a bit too heavy and large for my touring needs.

More details later; I'm developing my extender further to work with a variety of cameras, and it should reduce the stored size to about 14in/35.6cm and weight to less than a pound/~400g overall, much more manageable for touring.

Best,

Dan. (...who is still trying to figure out the lump above his left ankle at 1:02 in Video 1)


Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2013, 09:27:49 AM »
Aww, Rual. I'd dearly love a drone!

Unfortunately, they require a smartphone to operate (provides the control app, streaming, and the video monitor), which I don't have. Though still in development, the MeCam you linked to even allows for voice commands and has a "follow me" option, using the phone only for streaming.

The good news is, my current mount cost only USD$10, so I have a bit of room to refine the design for Mk2.

Man, I do like that drone idea, though. I've long followed their progress and looked at them. What a nifty solution!

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 09:30:54 AM by Danneaux »

NZPeterG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 726
  • It's Great to Be Alive! Again! Go Cycle. . . . . .
    • Kiwi Pete's Cycling Safari
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2013, 10:46:48 AM »
Hi Dan,
I have not readed all the postings from the start of this thread? But is this more the thing you are after?

http://xshot.com/

Have fun and be safe  ;)

Pete
 8)

The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common[

http://kiwipetesadventures.tumblr.com/

http://kiwipetescyclingsafari.blogspot.co.nz/

Looked after by Chris @ http://www.puresports.co.nz/
For all your Rohloff and Thorn Bicycle's in NZ

E-wan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2013, 02:09:30 PM »
you might also be interested in the following podcast about how to video yourself in a sea kayak

http://www.seakayakpodcasts.com/Stuff.html link in the bottom of the middle column or direct link here (http://traffic.libsyn.com/seakayakpodcasts/Curgenven.mp3)

as similar obstacles need to be overcome

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2013, 05:37:54 PM »
Hi Pete! Hi Ewan!

Thanks so much for your suggestions, fellows; greatly appreciated.

Pete, I though the XShot would be just the ticket, but the telescoping sections don't lock, and several people I've talked to have found that over time with use and wear, the weight of the camera will rotate it around the end of the pole and there's no handy way to tighten the sections. When I learned that, I moved toward either twist-lock or cam-lock extensions that stay in alignment.

I had so hoped my Tamrac ZipShot bungee cord and tent pole tripod ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=6307.0 ) would serve double-duty as an extender, but it won't (not past the first section) as the segments also rotate and the camera goes inverted. Given I have to take two gadgets (tripod and extender/monopod), I'm trying to get the pair as compact and light as possible while keeping each stiff enough to properly steady the camera. This has been really frustrating, probably the biggest problem after damping vibration. If weight and bulk weren't problems, it would be easy to make something sturdy. When the construction gets too lightweight, it tends to want to shake at extended lengths -- and I do have to extend it quite a lot to get most of me and the bike in the photo. I think if I aimed the camera down a bit in the second YouTube example, I would have gotten less sky and more bike/me.

Ewan...I need a sea kayak to match my canoe! Wonderful podcasts you linked to; combining the ideas of Justine Curgenven and Dr Douglas Wilcox with the XShot Kayak Mount ( http://secure.ultracart.com/cgi-bin/UCEditor?merchantId=XSHOT&ADD=XSKM&QUANTITY=1 ), I'd be close to my goals. The trouble is, there's not a lot of flat sections to fasten such things to...or a lot of round tubing to do the same while still clearing bags and such. As mentioned earlier in the thread, this fellow had a clever implementation http://vimeo.com/3451015 which I can't imagine for my needs. The boom looks to be a semi-permanent fixture that would not be well-suited to narrow passages between trees and the like. Top marks for innovation, though.

One thing I'm finding that surprised me: If the GoPro is solidly mounted and subjected to too much low-amplitude/high-frequency vibration, the world it videos goes all Salvador Dali and looks like it is melting on playback. It doesn't happen all the time -- rarely overall -- but it happens frequently enough in my use to be frustrating. Mounting the camera solidly to my T-bar, seatpost, or rack works fine on pavement. However, off-road, the camera pretty much has to be hand-held or mounted on me (helmet or chest mount) to avoid the problem, which seems to be vibration-dependent 'cos it happens at all settings if the road surface is just right (wrong).

Best,

Dan.

NZPeterG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 726
  • It's Great to Be Alive! Again! Go Cycle. . . . . .
    • Kiwi Pete's Cycling Safari
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2013, 10:01:53 AM »
Hi Dan I have find just the thing  :D It has locks on the pole  :o
At last a good one  8) I have been looking for one, for over a year and how here we go  ::)
I'm planning to order one, here is a clip about a light (and no good) one and a Black Strong one.
http://youtu.be/rvafpIyKKMQ

And here is a Little more about them, I do not know if I would order from this shop or look for one closer to home.
Here is a link http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/924978-REG/fastcap_tech_i_stealth_mini_ipole_stealth_mini_14_5_31.html

http://www.fastcaptech.com/shop/stealth-ipole

Pete
 8)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 10:09:39 AM by NZPeterG »
The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common[

http://kiwipetesadventures.tumblr.com/

http://kiwipetescyclingsafari.blogspot.co.nz/

Looked after by Chris @ http://www.puresports.co.nz/
For all your Rohloff and Thorn Bicycle's in NZ

Matt2matt2002

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2013, 01:32:49 PM »
I like the look of these gizmos but want one no longer than 9 inches - to pop into my bar bag.
All the ones I have seen so far are 13 inches +.
Even the cheapie imports from China are over a foot in length

Anyone seen a small one?

Matt
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

macspud

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 730
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2013, 04:01:56 PM »
The Pocket XShot 7.75"
The XShot 2.0 Camera Extender 9"
The ipole mini is 9"

Matt2matt2002

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
Re: Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2013, 06:03:05 PM »
The Pocket XShot 7.75"
The XShot 2.0 Camera Extender 9"
The ipole mini is 9"

Thanx
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink