Author Topic: Hi from a new member, and Raven Tour pannier rack advice please  (Read 3586 times)

gregmacc

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Hi from a new member, and Raven Tour pannier rack advice please
« on: November 02, 2011, 12:31:47 PM »
Hi ... This is my first post ... My wife and I have recently ordered a pair of Raven Tours. We are expecting them to arrive here in Australia late November ... How long they are held by Australian customs after arrival is anybody's guess. We've gone for base model specs and colours apart from an upgrade to black hubs, and we've asked SJS to ship a couple of Pletscher single leg kickstands with the kits. Because we will be charged 10% GST on the cost of the bikes AND freight charges (applied to all imports valued over $1000 AUD), we have opted to resist the temptation to splurge on Thorn spec upgrades. This will keep the initial purchase cost as low as possible. We can then fit-out with our preferred accessories and components from the likes of Wiggle, without any further GST or freight charges adding to an already expensive exercise.
I plan to seek advice here concerning many aspects of Thorn bicycle ownership, and will hopefully be able to offer meaningful input to the forum as time goes by.
Initially, I would like to know what people would recommend for pannier racks to suit our new Ravens. We both currently use Ortlieb roll top classic panniers front and back on our trusty old "modified for rough road touring" aluminium mountain bikes. We have used an assortment of racks. Wendy's bike is currently running a Tubus Logo on the rear which we are very impressed with. We would be happy to  purchase Tubus again (for front and rear) but I'm just curious to know of the experiences and recommendations of other forum members ... maybe there are some specific Thorn Raven issues to take into acount when considering pannier racks?
Mine will be size 537L and Wendy's will be 512L ... if that's relevant? ... I'm thinking heal clearance to back panniers.
Cheers to all
Greg

jags

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Re: Hi from a new member, and Raven Tour pannier rack advice please
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 03:10:28 PM »
hi gregmacc welcome to the forum .myself i ride the sherpa another great thorn bike. the raven tour is a lovely bike your going to have nothing but good cycling on it. as far as the  racks go the tubus should be fine its what i have on mine cargo on rear duo on front  although i seldom use the front panniers usually can get everything i need into the rear ;)
consider putting a nice set of slicks on when not touring  schwalble kogak  will turn that raven into a swift  ;D
anyway best of irish luck with the new bikes  if you get a chance post some pic's  bikes and sunshine please.
jags

julk

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Re: Hi from a new member, and Raven Tour pannier rack advice please
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 04:51:36 PM »
Greg,
Welcome to the forum, congratulations on choosing 2 excellent bikes for loaded use. Enjoy them when they arrive!

My family successfully use a mix of Thorn and Tubus racks on several touring bikes and so far we have only managed one small bend on a Tubus rack bar when a fully loaded bike fell over. The bend was easily sorted, you can cold set steel racks within reason.

The Thorn touring bikes have a long wheelbase, just look at the sizeable gap between the seat tube and the rear mudguard in the pictures. You are most unlikely to experience heel strike unless you have very long feet. I have a son who wears size 14 shoes and he has the rear panniers as far back on the Thorn rack as they will go to give heel clearance.
Julian.


Milemuncher

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Re: Hi from a new member, and Raven Tour pannier rack advice please
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 08:45:25 PM »
Hello Greg, welcome.  I am another newbe to this forum, although my wife and I have had our Raven (Sports) Tours for a little over a year now.  We went rather different routes on the racks.  I have the Thorn Expedition Rack on my 561L frame and Jacqui has a much cheaper and lighter Blackburn alloy rack on her 461S frame.  Our thinking was that we were setting up for non-camping touring and if there was extra weight to be carried it would be on my bike.  Jacqui's bike is tiny, she refers to it as a BMX kids bike, but thanks to Andy B's care, it is of course a perfect fit for her.  With Ortleib panniers on the back neither of us have any problem with heel strike.  The Thorn rack is very long looking and in performance and gives lots of options for setting on the panniers.  I am not sure the Thorn Rack for me was not a bit of overkill.  I have used the Blackburn rack on many bikes for years and have never had any problems with it.  Mind, as I say, I am not expedition touring nor nothing like it.  I guess it really does depend on what you are going to do and haul, and we went for Sports Tour models as we were very clear our days of camping and hauling the necessary gear are well behind us.  I hope the wait for your bikes to arrive will not be too long and that you will get as much satisfaction from them as we had - right from the moment they came out of the boxes!  Things of beauty and joys forever!  ;D

Danneaux

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Re: Hi from a new member, and Raven Tour pannier rack advice please
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 10:09:07 PM »
HI greggmacc, and welcome!  Can't wait to see pics of your lovely new acquisitions; congratulations!

Speaking as another foreign Thorn owner ('Merkin in my case), I can surely empathize with the high cost of shipping and customs duties and conversion fees.  Together, mine added nearly USD$1000 to the cost of my Sherpa.

As to rack selection, based on my experience, I can state with some confidence aluminum racks are fine for lighter loads and smoother roads and will last indefinitely in that service.  However, I have broken four rear aluminum racks under heavy touring loads on rough roads...oddly enough, at the same point; the intersection of the last strut and the racktop.  I would have figured the lower mounting eye to go first.  I have yet to break a tubular steel rack, no matter the road or load, and it is not unusual for me to travel off-road for extended distances with an all-up loaded bike weight exceeding 50kg and my 78kg atop that.  I have so far had great success with the Thorn Low-Loader Mk V front pannier racks and a Surly Nice Rack Rear.  I have not had good luck with the Surly Nice Rack Front, as I found it to be entirely too flexible and sway-prone laterally.  I do, however, seem to be alone in that experience as others simply love theirs.  A search of the forum posts will find my comments on each in greater depth.

In choosing the Surly rear, I was put off the Tubus' by some online reports I read of fractures caused by parked bicycles falling over, and those failures not being covered by warranty.  I have seen photos on the 'Net of broken Tubus racks, but I suspect they are notable because they -- like Rohloff hub failures -- occur so rarely.  Frankly, any rack can and will fail given enough use and abuse, and the same holds true for nearly any component in expedition use.  I do prefer the closed loop "return" at the front of the Surly and often use it as a handle for rotating and repositioning the loaded or unloaded bicycle when I am off it.  I also like Surly's use of tubular stainless steel for the support and extension struts, as opposed to Tubus' solid aluminum rod, though I have never heard of a Tubus failure there.  I don't think you'd go a bit wrong with a Tubus.  If you like to place your load crosswise to the rack, you may wish to avoid the Logo, as it has a narrow platform, but it does have the advantage of a nicely closed front loop to the top deck and an entire secondary mounting rail to carry your bags both lower and farther to the rear.

I have come to firmly believe that external cinch straps greatly reduce the risk of breakage for mounting hooks and rack alike, and make the ride much quieter, all as a result of damping second-order vibrations.  Going through a pothole with cinch straps results in only one "WHAM!" where otherwise you get the initial impact that lofts the bags and their contents and at least one more impact when the whole of the bags and contents settles down on the rack with force.  Repeat often enough, and it isn't hard to see why breakage occurs and the wisdom of trying to minimize or damp the second-order vibrations and impacts.  If nothing else, it is worth it to have a quiet(er) ride.

As for heel clearance, don't forget if you settle on Ortlieb bags, there is considerable adjustment possible in terms of hook location, and a bag can also be canted rearward at the bottom or even angled (with the later QL-2 mounting system). Bags by other manufacturers usually include some means for adjustment as well.

Best,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: Hi from a new member, and Raven Tour pannier rack advice please
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2011, 05:52:26 AM »
For those of us not yet tired of the subject (pun intended), a nice parallel summary of our collective discussion appears in the form of an entry on Jan Heine's Wordpress blog, "Off the Beaten Path" published October 18, 2010:

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/science-and-bicycles-1-tires-and-pressure/

Best,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: Hi from a new member, and Raven Tour pannier rack advice please
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2011, 06:00:04 AM »
Oh...my; my last was a mispost to the wrong section.  Properly posted in http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3798.0 

Admin?  Can it be deleted?  Mea maxima culpa and sincere apologies.

Best,

Dan.

gregmacc

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Re: Hi from a new member, and Raven Tour pannier rack advice please
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2011, 07:00:27 AM »
Thanks for the kind welcomes all ...
Jags ... Good to hear you are happy with Tubus ... I did consider the Kojaks but we have gone with Panaracer Pasela Tourguards in 1.75 for city and non touring duties.
Julian ... Another "thumbs up" for Tubus. Thats encouraging. Yes I think we will be OK for heal clearance. Wendy gets a bee's whisker with the Logos on her mountain bike with the Ortliebs hung fully rearward. As you say, the Raven's wheel base is longer.
Milemuncher ... Good to hear you are happy with the RSTs. We almost went that way, but we've got lots of seriously rugged outback touring ahead of us and will benefit from the beefier frame and extra load carrying capabilities.
Dan ... We would never have been able to do this without the current favourable Aussie dollar to GB pound conversion rate. We payed in full to lock-in at $1.54 to the pound. When we were travelling through Europe in 2006 it was $2.50 AUD! - It's still a very expensive exercise but we will be getting something very unique for this part of the world. There is no real Thorn equivalent over here, and anything close is manufactured by small scale niche builders which results in very scary price tags ... way out of our budget.
I've not considered Surly racks but will do so on your recommendation.
Cheers all
Greg