Sherpa planing Newbie questions

[Bill C]

Hi all
great forum with some inspiring builds 
I'm Newbie to the forum and not yet an owner of a full Thorn Bike,
i have how ever bought a set of new Nomad fork's of off the bay of evil from sjs with the intention of banging them on a retro mtb but after getting them and seeing the quality i have decided that i want the whole bike    reading the posts on here was enough to convince me i NEED a decent frame and after checking out the competition (Surly lht and travellers check) have decided to go with a Thorn
but i  don't fancy the expense of Rolhoff so it's a Sherpa but possibly a Ripio as well ( i have a fairly good spec donor mtb for the parts for that build but with mount tundra forks)
i have started buying all the kit to make my dream bike (Sherpa) come true but have a few questions
i really like the Nomad forks that i bought, i have also bought xt v brakes but have read that the front ones squeal like a tortured cat, would fitting Nomad forks with the brakes behind the forks stop this (effectively having two rear brakes) and would fitting Nomad forks to a Sherpa frame be a good move ? i've checked the specs and they are very close
also i'd really like a frame that doesn't need me to have a foot of seat post sticking out of the frame as my other bikes do as to me it looks like they are to small for me
the other bikes in case your interested are my special baby a Klein Attitude XV and a donor Giant escape MO (upgraded) for the Ripio build that i want for weekends and a bit of rough stuff, i have been using the Klein and a bob yak but after being really ill on my last ride and needing to get home for the kids (single dad) found i could take the bike on the train but not bob  , so it's panniers until my son's are old enough to look after themselves or i will need to call out a mate to rescue me if ever i find my self in that position again

apart from the fork/frame question
i plan on using straight bars as i haven't ridden drops in years but i'd like the choice of swapping over if i fancy it,
so i'm looking at the 585l frame as looking at the chart the difference in frame size between one for drops and one for straights could be compensated for in my choice of handlebar stem (standard size 110mm)so 130mm for straight bars and 90mm for drops would pretty much cover the difference in top tube is this a sensible idea? or do i need to decide my priorities and get it right first time

i'm hoping to order the frame in the next week or two along with a Surly nice front rack and the Thorn expedition rear rack and a few other bits and bobs
i would post the kit i have bought so far for the Sherpa build but don't want my first post to be to long winded so i'll leave that unless anyone is interested

regards Bill

[JohnWay]

Hi Bill

I've got a Sherpa which I've had for just over a year and a half and have ben very pleased with it, it's the top spec flat bar model as they show in the brochure with a few extras.  It's used most days as my commute bike and for cycle camping, carrying quite a bit of weight, so for starters I don't think you will go wrong with buying one!

As to the xt brake squeal I think that the problem is over stated, both my wifes bike and mine have the XT brakes and Rigida Grizzly CSS rims and we use the Swiss Stop Blue carbide specific pads, yes they sqeal like a pig for a while but when bedded in are fine, I don't know about the new Koolstop Carbide specific pads SJS now sell but I'm sticking to the Swisstop ones.

As to regards handlebars/sizing I'd make my decision over bars first and choose the correct size frame for that style of bar, (i used to ride drops but am converted to flats now, the Thorn anatomic ones) and as to the amount of seatpost, why don't you want a lot of seatpost showing? it's much easier to get off and on a loaded bike with a lower top tube especially if you plan to do rough stuff and seat tube length is pretty irelevant in frame sizing, its the length of the top tube that's critical. Seatposts these days are incredibly strong so there is no worry over that if that's your concern.

As to front racks , that's you choice but I can assure you that there is nothing wrong with the Thorn front low loader, I use it with ortleib classic front panniers and it's great.


John

[Bill C]

Hi John
thanks for the reply
i'm 99% certain i'll be using flat bars though i do keep looking at the drops but i have a trashed disk so leaning to low long term isn't an option (btw the duff back is what started me cycling again as i was overweight and the doctor was threatening me with a wheelchair, i lost nearly 7 stone from about 19 1/2 down to just over 12 1/2 but have put some back on over winter  , since taking up cycling again i haven't had a proper bad back so i have no option but to keep pedalling lol )

i collect classic camp stoves as a hobby and have been selling of a few of my doubles to get the new bike using the option 4 expedition spec in the catalogue  as a starting point
the seat tube length is just purely personal i'm not keen on loads of post showing but that's just me and not a very good reason to make a buying decision i'll admit

i've pretty much bought everything i need for the build but the frame and racks are still needed, i fancied the surly nice rack over the Thorn low riders as it means i'll have somewhere to carry a good thick sleeping mat, having a duff disk i need the extra thick ones at present i'm using a 2 kilo 5cm mat i don't mind the weight as it means i'm comfortable at night, but the bulk of it is a different matter same with my sleeping bag i use the USMC sleep system heavy and bulky but totally flexible and suits my needs the bags and mat will fill the top of both front and rear racks

i also want to use rear panniers on the front so that i have the option of taking/carrying extra kit  and the Surly nice means i can keep them well off the deck
for the time being i'm limited with the time i get to go far as i mentioned in my previous post i'm a single dad so i just grab the opportunity to get out for a few days when i get the chance
but in another few years that will change and i'll be free to travel were ever i like, so i'm gradually getting the best kit i can so that i'm ready for the off
i want to go right around the coast of the uk then later over to Europe on the Eurovelo routes  at least that is my intention
up until now my Klein and Bob have been fine but after being told that i can't take a trailer on the train it has stopped being so useful although my back is much better and as long as i keep riding i'm fine it is always in the back of my mind that it could pop again and i could be in serious trouble so the train/plane is a backup plan

sorry if i'm waffling but buying the bits for the bike was the easy part as they can be bunged on any frame, but the frame itself i want to get right first time as it's the main expense and i will hopefully be on it for a good while so it needs to be right

as for the Nomad forks on a Sherpa frame, i bought the forks off ebay and when they got here i was totally gob-smacked by the quality of them and it was the main reason i decided i want a Thorn bike, i haven't seen one in the flesh but the forks ooze quality and it was enough for me to make a decision, i just need a pep talk to make the final commitment hearing that the XT brakes should bed in is a good one thanks for that

i don't know if this will work but here are a couple of pics of the set up i want to replace

[beef]

hi there bill,

I beleive you are making a very fine choice in a bicycle for life! I can honestly say that the sherpa has the most awesome ride quality.  Its very smooth on the flat, surprisingly quick, soaks up bumps beautifly and decends with a great feeling of control. I origanally bought my frame and then fitted it with my old mtb kit.  I have recently fitted a full xt groupset and new wheels (see members gallery for pictures).  The beauty of it being steel is that it will last a lifetime.  I had considered saving for a rohloff raven tour or nomad but i felt that with the performance quality of shimano and some regular cleaning and maintenance i would be able to have a bike that will last and perform for years.  I understand the long term cost saving with rohloff but I dont own a car so for me to have to spend a couple of hundred pounds every few years on chain rings, chain and cassette is almost unoticeable really in comparison to costs of a car and public transport.  I also feel that with rohloff although there have been no reported failures of a hub there is always a chance there might be!  The worst failures possible with a derailure system are all repairable at the roadside if you know what your doing and have the right tools/spares and as long as your prepared to clean and maintain the drivetrain theres no reason why you can't get about 10,000 miles out of a set of chain rings, a chain and a cassette with the cost of replacement perhaps being a couple of hundred. For any long tours these parts would be light and packable.  A freehub is the most most crucial componant on a derailure system but this is replaceble and can be changed with a ten mill allen key and a cassette tool with cone spanners.  The appeal of owning a beautifull handbuilt thorn rohloff exp is in my mind but unfortenately my bank account would never allow it!  At some stage I might invest in an EXP frame with s and s couplings but im satisfied with my faithfull Sherpa for now.  A world tour is my current goal having done landsend john o groats last year. Anyway, if your able to I would go for the full expedition build on the sherpa, you'll absolutely love it!!

Regards,   Beef (aka john)   

[jags]

hi bill hope your enjoying your new sherpa (that's if you got it )
it's a great all round bike pure mule as the man said solid on the road no matter what the load.
anyway just on the sleeping mat and sleeping bag.i have the exped 7  down bag light as a feather  ;)packs small and super comfy honest.the s/bag is from alpkit pipedream 400 brilliant bag .
that's me best of luck on the new bike you wont regtet it.

[Bill C]

Hi Jags & Beef

thanks for your replies and interest, i haven't finished getting all the bit's together yet
i'm still waiting for my handlebars to get here from Holland and a stem from Ireland (and a few other bit's still to get),
when the handlebars get here i can check them for size and i might order a set of bar top interrupter levers for drop v brakes (i have only found two types compatible with v's and drops both in America so that might hold me up for another week or two)
i have had a rethink and have now changed my mind about the build  i have bought xt flat bar brake levers, xt style sjs thumbshifters and ergon grips but have now decided i want a drop bar tourer, i think it will be better for me in the long run 
so i need to get in contact with sjs to see if either i can get the bar end dura ace shifters, hopefully i can either get just the end adaptors or with any luck sjs might allow me to swap the thumbies for bar end shifters, luckily i haven't ordered the frame yet as i want to get the frame a surly nice front rack and the thorn rear rack in one order (but that can wait until i have everything here and ready to build), so if i ask to swap the gear levers at the same time i order the rest i should be in a better position
i have found a great leather worker and have had 3 honey saddlebags made in different sizes (one should fit between the drops on the handlebars) and another two in black for one of my other bikes the craftsmanship is top notch and at what i consider to be a great price
the build is dragging on a bit but i'd sooner take my time and have it the way i want as i have big plans for the bike in the future

i'm not sure of forum rules or etiquette otherwise i would post pictures of the saddle bags i have had made and a link to the seller as i'm pretty sure there would be some interest from other cyclists?
the Honey ones are a standard fit for the loops on the saddle but the seller is quiet happy to modify them to fit other saddles so i got him to make up a black one to fit my brooks conquest using the lower rear rail for a mounting point

on a plus note i am having a reproduction made in honey of my 1930's Primus cyclists stove outfit made that fits to the crossbar and i can't wait  , it might seem a bit sad but i really like my vintage stoves    and want to have a usable reproduction to take with me on my trips/days out, the original 1930's primus outfit i have is too old and rare to be used on a daily basis so it's for display
i'll keep you posted on how i am getting on and when she's finished i'll post some pics in the members gallery

thanks again for the interest and replies

atb Bill

[Bill C]

update

I just had a knock at the door  and my handlebars are here     i bought Modolo Gran Fondo's  43cm size
i won't be ordering the interrupter levers as i don't think they will be of much benefit and they might get in the way of my big mitts 
the honey bar bag fit's a dream and looks the part so i suppose i'd better order my brooks honey bar tape now as i'm certain i made the right choice (yes i know i risk over doing the leather but i like it lol, i'm fighting the honey mud flaps but it's a losing battle    )
 the handlebars are swept back and up to give a more upright position than normal drops so it should give my back a rest if it starts to ache
just looking at the saddle and saddlebag and the handlebar and bag assembled is giving me a very positive feeling about the bike and i'm really starting to see it finished at long last and i can't wait,
i have a trip from Devon up to Newark on Trent planned in 4 weeks to the classic camp stove rally/meet and would really like to be riding the sherpa there as it should be a great chance to try her out for real and it's the first time i will have had more than a couple of days to myself since becoming a single dad so i'd like to make the most of it, two weeks with no kids, a hint of things to come when they are grown up and i'll be free at last 

[john28july]

You said:- two weeks with no kids, a hint of things to come when they are grown up and i'll be free at last   


Hi
Boy have I got news for you!
That aside, I hope that you enjoy the Sherpa build. As you in theory only do it once, make the most of it by getting it just perfect.
Enjoy yourself,
About the first line of this message, I have a 19 almost 20 daughter who is as you say ,grown up' leaving me free. Its not quite so simple......have fun!
John.

[jags]

ah bill stick those photos up theres a good lad
bill you might just be the lad to ask what is a really good gas stove ,i have the optimus crux brilliant quick stove but that problem with it the arms are to small for the pot,im looking for a stove thats not to pricy booils fairly quick and good support the pots.thanks...

btw why barend shifters why not TIAGRA 9 speed sti super smooth i love mine.

[Bill C]

hi jags
i'm not much of a mechanic and when the sti's on the Klein go out of adjustment i find it a pain getting them right
my old road bike had i think 105 flight control sti's and i didn't get on with them so i thought stick with gears that can go in friction mode just to save the hassle
i have seen some thumbie adaptors in the states for the top of drop bars with a 26mm clamp size (same as my bars) so might go for those instead,
i intend on having the bars set up quiet high so that i'm on the drops most of the time, i thought set them up with the drops about the same height maybe a little lower than the bar ends on my other bike with flat bars, it would mean i'd have plenty of different upright positions ie on the hoods, top of the drops and on the flats hopefully that should sort out any back pain i might get

me give advice on gas stoves NEVER!
your talking to the wrong person here, i don't have a single gassie in my collection to me they are evil things that should be banished to hell for the demise of proper liquid fuelled stoves    (it's ok the rant is  over  and i feel better now )   
now if you want a petrol stove for easy availability of fuel anywhere in the world that will work at pretty much any altitude and in cold weather get an Optimus 8r or Svea 123r if it's just for you (both great little stoves and brass too!)
if you want a stove that will never let you down then get a trangia maybe with a Optimus Nova or gas adaptor if you feel the need or need to cook for more people
me i'll settle for my Radius 43 made in the late 30's early 40's and still burning like new and it uses paraffin like my little uco candle lamp with the paraffin insert
i'll shut up now about stoves as this is a bike forum and not my usual haunt, and i tend to bang on about stoves any chance i get 

you mentioned photo's did you mean of the Sherpa when it's finished which i will post when it's all ready or did you mean the bags i have had made?

atb Bill

[jags]

bill i can see you know your stoves thanks for the choices you gave me,my son is in the states (montana) at the moment i'll see if he can pick me one up fairly cheap.
the photo's i was talking about was  the panniers but i would not mind seeing a few of the sherpa  and your favourate stoves   
cheers
jags.

[Bill C]

hi again jags
well you asked for it so here go's , don't say i didn't warn you not to start me on stoves lol

the pics are of my Radius 43 when i bought it and after i had fettled it,
i gave it an electrolysis bath to remove all the paint and rust then treated it with phosphoric acid to neutralise any remaining rust
then a good few coats of Satin black high heat paint
if the pics show you'll see she ain't no slouch for a 70 to 80 year old
i hope i'm still about and still using her for her centenary if not i have told my son's on no account should they sell her !

i'll take some pics of the saddlebags and tool bags tomorrow in daylight to do his work full justice as it's spot on for the money i paid but no panniers yet as i didn't have the neck to ask for them lol he pm'd me to say his hands were killing after the last lot lol

[Bill C]

only one pic showed up i'll try again
the other two stoves are an early optimus 8 (non r petrol) in the green case and an optimus 111 kero the larger of the three in the pics

[mikerr]

Hi Bill,
Some nice stove pics. I used to have a petrol version of the Optimus in the above top pic(far right).
Sold it to buy a Svea 123 petrol, which I still have, somewhere.
Remember giving the brass a good polish before and after each camping trip. Happy Days.
Back on topic, be sure to post some pics of the Sherpa when it's finished.
Mike

[jags]

thanks for that bill man that's one nifty looking stove obviously there's no danger of it exploding the flames seem very near that tank. >:(you done a great job on restoring it.
i had a look at the optimus svea looks good but a wee bit expensive for me at the moment.
HEY MIKE i'll buy yours seen as your not useing it.