Author Topic: Alternative to Andra 30 rims  (Read 580 times)

George Hetrick

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
  • retired software engineer in Austin, TX, USA
Re: Alternative to Andra 30 rims
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2026, 04:40:50 PM »
If you like the Andra 30, but want something wider, why not the Andra 40? Andra 30 is 19mm, Andra 40 is 25mm.

Andyb1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 298
Re: Alternative to Andra 30 rims
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2026, 06:05:06 PM »
I dropped into SJS today - my cheapest ever visit as I only left with a £1.39 straddle cable.  They seem to have the world supply of 26” Andra 30 rims!   They bought a big batch in at some point and currently have good stock.  Whether they will ever order another batch who knows……and I did not ask what ratio of Rohloff / standard drilled 26” rims they had.

Their website says that Andra 30 rims will take 28 - 62mm tyres.  Personally I don’t think I will ever fit larger than 50mm so the Andra 30 would be fine for me - but Martinf in a post above is considering Andra 40 rims.  The negative is that no doubt Andra 40 rims are heavier than Andra 30.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2026, 06:29:51 PM by Andyb1 »

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8417
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Alternative to Andra 30 rims
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2026, 07:19:29 PM »
As a postive data point, I am running Andra 40s on my tandem and have been very pleased with them. I have 26x2.0 Schwalbe Duremes mounted on them.

My Nomad Mk2 and my Enduro-Allroad bike use the same brand/model/size tires, mounted on Andra 30s. I have also been very pleased with them.

I just dashed out to my garage and did a comparison measure across the tire sidewalls, inflated to the same pressure. There is exactly 5mm difference at the widest part of the tire sidewalls between the Andra 30 and 40 (the 40 has the larger/wider measurement)...within 1mm of the published difference between internal rim widths.

Put another way, that 5mm is a difference of 2.5mm or 3/32in per side. On the one hand, not much on a tire measuring "about" 50mm, on the other, a 5mm/10% difference in overall width.

Any height difference I found much more difficult to measure in my quick effort as it was difficult to keep the bikes exactly vertical while I measured rim-to-ground with an offset caliper. As close as I could tell, there is somewhere between 3-4mm difference in height, the 40 being lower in profile and more rounded, as you might expect from a typical 1:1 aspect ratio (same bead-to-bead width but stretched wider means not as tall from the rim bead seat to contact point with a static load of just the unladen bicycle). I'd urge caution with the numbers here, as this was a quick measure on my part rather than to my usual gnat's eyelash standards for accuracy. If you're fussy and have changed rims, you might want to do an actual rollout under load to get the most accurate figures to plug into your cycle computer.
=====
If I have got the right comparison on the SJS Cycles site, their published weights for the 559 x 32 hole Andra 30 is 735g the Andra 40 is 750g, only a 15g difference. If weight is a critical concern you'd best check the figures yourself, as I had to take a call midway in my comparo and was a little distracted. ::)

Best, Dan.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2026, 07:26:17 PM by Danneaux »

Andyb1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 298
Re: Alternative to Andra 30 rims
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2026, 07:44:00 PM »
15g is negligible; I had incorrectly assumed an Andra 40 rim would be significantly heavier than an Andra 30.

The Mavic 717 rims originally fitted are lighter by around 250 - 300g than the Andras, as are the Halo rims PH mentioned.  And visually I do not like the square section of the Andras, but that is a minor consideration.  They certainly seem to have a good reputation for strength and having Rohloff drillings is a positive.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2026, 07:48:02 PM by Andyb1 »

WorldTourer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
Re: Alternative to Andra 30 rims
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2026, 08:00:57 PM »

Their website says that Andra 30 rims will take 28 - 62mm tyres. 

That advice is overly conservative. I rode 2,000 kilometers with 2.6" Schwalbe Pick-Up tires on my Andra 30 rims. I had no difficulty mounting the tires, and no problems on the ride (which was on very rough offroad terrain where I was using a range of tire pressures). I subsequently had new wheels built with Ryde Rival 30 rims in order to gain tubeless compatibility, and again I have 2.6" tires on those. So, I don’t think 40 rims are necessary for most of the use cases described on this forum.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2026, 08:13:04 PM by WorldTourer »

Andyb1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 298
Re: Alternative to Andra 30 rims
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2026, 08:28:57 PM »
Strangely enough the SJS web site says that Andra 40 rims are suitable for 37 - 62mm tyres…….the same max tyre size as Andra 30 rims.

JohnR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 741
Re: Alternative to Andra 30 rims
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2026, 09:01:28 PM »
I was not aware of locking nipples.  But I have never had a problem with nipples loosening.

If I needed to change a spoke or for some other reason remove a nipple, I would rather have the plain old nipples. 
When wheelbuilding I've dipped the threaded ends of spokes into boiled linseed oil before fitting nipples. This dries to become a weak threadlocker and may also act as a barrier between different metals. IIRC this was suggested by Robin Thorn when I contacted him about a broken nipple on my Mercury (caused, I suspect, by hitting a nasty pothole).

mickeg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3069
Re: Alternative to Andra 30 rims
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2026, 09:49:09 PM »
Strangely enough the SJS web site says that Andra 40 rims are suitable for 37 - 62mm tyres…….the same max tyre size as Andra 30 rims.

My complaint about the Andra 30 rims being pushed as a great expedition rim for wider tires like 57mm is that if I want to be able to lower the pressure for bad ground conditions, the rims are narrow enough that the bike feels too loose if I do that.  I only did it once and did not like the feel of the bike.  Thus, I feel I have to run the pressure higher than I would like on loose uneven ground on those tires because the rims are too narrow.  Too many times on steep uphills on loose gravel, my rear wheel lost traction and spun out and I came to an immediate halt.  And those hills are too steep for me to just get on the bike and be able to pedal up to speed with a full load, thus I had to push the bike up the rest of the hill.  But with lower pressure I am pretty sure that I would have had better traction with a larger tire footprint on the loose ground.

One of the times when I was ranting about this on this forum, Dave W (former SJS employee) told me I was completely wrong because the rim was good for up to 62mm.  But all he could say was that Ryde said so.  I think realistically, when manufacturers recommendations are too broad, the retailer should be willing to accept that.  I do not think any other rim manufacturer of a 19mm wide (internal) rim would suggest all the way up to 62mm.

Example, on my Lynskey I am running Velocity Dyad rims, I wanted a rim that would work well with 28 to 37mm tire width.  I considered the Mavic A719 and Velocity Dyad. 

In the end I picked the Dyad.  Rim internal width is 18.6mm, just a hair under the Andra 30 width.  Velocity recommends this rim for 25 up to 38mm tire width, which makes it just perfect for my tire preferences on my Lynskey.  That is a much more realistic appraisal of which rim would work best with which tires. 
https://velocityusa.com/collections/rims/products/dyad-rim-700c?variant=40783718350927

I had nothing against the Mavic A719, internal width of 19mm (same as Andra 30).  I already had owned a set of wheels with those rims.  Attached photo shows the max pressure recommendations from the sticker on one of my A719 rims, as you can see this rim was right in the range of tire sizes I wanted on that bike.   At this time my randoneuring bike has a Dyad (18.6mm internal width) on the front and a Mavic A719 (19mm internal width) on back, works great with 32mm wide tires.

I will never understand why Ryde says what they say for ideal rim width.

I wanted to run tires in the range of 40 to 50mm on my Sherpa.  I bought Salsa Gordo rims (no longer sold) with an internal width of 21mm, and they work great on that bike with that range of tires.

Rant over.  Sorry.  But this topic is the only topic where I have been unhappy when I followed the recommendation from SJS.

WorldTourer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
Re: Alternative to Andra 30 rims
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2026, 10:28:23 PM »
My complaint about the Andra 30 rims being pushed as a great expedition rim for wider tires like 57mm is that if I want to be able to lower the pressure for bad ground conditions, the rims are narrow enough that the bike feels too loose if I do that.

As I mentioned, I ran 2.6" tires on the Andra 30 at low pressure (namely on the Baja Divide I pumped my Schwalbe Pick-Up tires to under 2 bars in order to float over sand) and never had any kind of “too loose” feeling. Could there have been some other cause of what you experienced?

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4263
Re: Alternative to Andra 30 rims
« Reply #24 on: Today at 12:01:07 AM »
A quick visit to the recent history of bike rims might help here:

When some manufacturer of bikes rather than rims invented the 29er, which is basically a touring or utility bike with wide balloon tyres, the technical side of ERTRO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation), the industry body, was horrified to see some manufacturers, in a hurry to share in the new market created, cynically put 50 and 60mm tyres on 19mm and even a few narrower rims. ERTRO then urgently reminded everyone of existing guidelines, which were that the minimum rim width over the tyre bead-retainer ridges (not the outside of the rim) should be at least 40 percent of tyre width. Schwalbe, whose tyres many on the Thorn group regard highly, later published similar minimum rim width to tyre width recommendations.

The rim makers screeched to high heavens about not having the capital to invest in new molds and warehousing for a fashion flash in the pan soon to be overtaken by the next fashion flash in the pan, which is what many took the 29er craze to be in the beginning*, and ERTRO, an industry body representing the manufacturers, not the cyclists, hurriedly backed off and basically added an implicit "or whatever you like".

Thus the danger, to which in the original instance ERTRO responded, remained that wide tyres on unsuitable narrow rims would have to be more highly inflated, and would thus stand a greater risk of coming out of the retainer beads in high-speed cornering or even bursting the cheaper narrow rims apart.

Eventually responsible bike designers and manufacturers specified more and more wider rims as it became clear that the 29er had come to stay, as I forecast when it first appeared. The rim manufacturers responded with wider rims.

I tried a 60mm Big Apple on the 19mm no-brand Chinese rim into which an electric motor had already been laced, and nothing awful happened, except the bike was slower because the slight deformation of the Big Apple by the narrow rim put less rubber on the road, and on the downhills I slowed down considerably compared to my normal standard of letting her rip, because the bike didn't feel stable or particularly responsive to tightening the steering in corners (too much understeer). Perhaps not a big deal if you're poor and cannot afford the sometimes substantial premium for high quality wide rims; the likelyhood is that you will still think you're going faster than on narrower tyres, on which you could never approach the downhill speeds and security of a true 29er.

My personal opinion is that ERTRO's 40% of tyre width rims are still a bit iffy, but again, most cyclists have never gone as fast as you can go on 62mm tyres on rims with 25mm between the bead retainers, which are today relatively available and certainly comparatively cheaper than when the 29er was born, so most cyclists are likely to be satisfied.

The mental arithmetic sum for the minimum recommendation of 40% is rim width across the bead retainers times 2.5, thus if you have or can source a 25mm rim, 25mm x 2.5 = 62.5mm. Or, you have or can source 62mm tyres, you need a rim of (62/2.5)mm which rounds off to 25mm rim width across the bead retainers.

Below the footnote, there's a table of rim and tyre widths for the minimum ERTRO width recommendation to fit the widest tyre, both numbers in millimeters, in all cases where fragments remained rounded downwards because these rim widths are minima.

*Not me. For me the 29er was one of those very rare true engineering advances in bicycles -- it was clear me as an old racing car chassis developer that, if properly engineered, it would make for a faster, better-handling bike than the 37/38mm tyres I regarded as a poverty limitation on the bikes I had before the 29er; it also reflects my marketing background, because I further argued that if cycling were to grow, it would need to grow into sections of the population who didn't care the bat of the eyelid for the privations that came with bicycles but would demand both comfort and exceptional security for their commute or Sunday ride.

ERTRO Generalized
Minimum//Maximum
Rim Width//Tyre Width (all mm)

18//45
19//47
20//50
21//52
22//55
23//57
24//60
25//62
26//65
27//67
28//70
29//72
30//75
31//77