Author Topic: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)  (Read 69 times)

Matt2matt2002

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Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« on: January 29, 2026, 09:22:51 AM »
Thanks folks. Much appreciated

I just had a thought; frame number.
When the bike is sand blasted prior to painting, is there a possibility that the frame number could be removed?
Mine looks a little faint at the moment.

Matt
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

PH

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2026, 11:14:30 AM »
When the bike is sand blasted prior to painting, is there a possibility that the frame number could be removed?
Matt
Removed - no.
Harder to read - maybe.
The blasting shouldn't remove anything except old paint, how easy the numbers are to read under the new coating depends on how thick that is.


mickeg

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2026, 09:22:08 PM »
The numbers are very hard to read on my Nomad Mk II.  Can you read the number?


in4

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2026, 01:10:25 AM »
I’ve just put it through the iPhone photo filtering app. Much clearer and worth pursuing but it’s late, I’m tired with a capital K and The Land of Nod calls.  🤞

Andyb1

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2026, 07:59:15 AM »
Matt - once the paint is off could the stamped code be made easier to see by using a hand engraver?

mickeg

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2026, 01:44:45 PM »
I would avoid doing any work on the existing stamped number.  Another option would be if you know someone that has a set of those stamps, stamp the same number in another spot.  It would be best to stamp it were you can't damage anything, meaning not on a thin tube.  Perhaps a rear dropout? 

Decades ago I had a Raleigh with the number stamped on a dropout.  The number was highlighted in gold, someone in Nottingham with a very fine brush highlighted the number.

I have an Italian bike from the 1960s with the number stamped on a seatpost lug.  Example, attached.

My dad had a set of those stamps, decades ago I stamped my name on some of my tools. 

Andyb1

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2026, 04:46:53 PM »
‘I would avoid doing any work on the existing stamped number.’

Why?
It keeps the stamped number in the standard location.

From my limited experience of stamping numbers on other things it is very difficult to re-stamp an existing number as exact stamp alignment can be very hard to achieve - but careful engraving might be a way of re-establishing the serial number.


‘Another option would be if you know someone that has a set of those stamps, stamp the same number in another spot.’

Not sure that is a wise thing to do as people know where Thorn serial numbers are placed and having a number elsewhere really does make the bike look like it has been stolen!

Danneaux

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2026, 06:31:57 PM »
Quote
My dad had a set of those stamps...
...I do, too! As a hobbyist framebuilder, I have used them to mark my frames. It can be devilishly hard to get the numbers to register properly and fully on a rounded steel surface and the process does not take kindly to redos. I've had good luck stamping soft brass sheet stock, then silver-soldering that to the frame. I'd be happy to do so for cost of materials, but it goes beyond the usual 'blast-and-respray remit...and we're located a bit far apart!

Best, Dan.

mickeg

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2026, 11:25:27 PM »
‘I would avoid doing any work on the existing stamped number.’

Why?...

It could be interpreted that you have changed the number.

If I was considering buying a bike and it looked like the serial number may have been modified, I would not purchase it.

Perhaps I am just a more careful buyer because I have had a bike stolen.  I do not want to enable and encourage thieves by rewarding them with my money.  When I bought my Sherpa frame and fork used, I asked the seller if he had the paperwork from SJS.  Yes he did, and he provided it to me.

Andyb1

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2026, 09:01:25 AM »
Agreed, we need to work to combat bike theft.   Which is why (if required) I suggested re-establishing the original stampings in their original location by engraving them a little deeper.

I asked to see a photo of the serial number of my Raven before I bought it remotely but I could not use it to verify that the bike had not been stolen.  Do Thorn have a list of serial numbers?  At least then you could verify that the serial number refers to the correct bike type.   At the moment it’s only use seems to be to tell the buyer and seller the frame size.
Or is there a police database (in UK) of stolen bike serial numbers?

The Rohloff serial number is another way of verifying authenticity - after buying my Raven I logged the hub’s serial number on the Rohloff web site……a bit late as I had bought the bike by then!

mickeg

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2026, 11:42:36 AM »
...
 Do Thorn have a list of serial numbers?  At least then you could verify that the serial number refers to the correct bike type.   At the moment it’s only use seems to be to tell the buyer and seller the frame size.
Or is there a police database (in UK) of stolen bike serial numbers?

The Rohloff serial number is another way of verifying authenticity - after buying my Raven I logged the hub’s serial number on the Rohloff web site……a bit late as I had bought the bike by then!

This forum has a list somewhere with Rohloff serial numbers, but it is a very short list limited to those of us that posted our numbers.

When I bought my Nomad Mk II, I only bought the frame and fork.  SJS told me they only keep a list of numbers for complete bikes they have sold, but they told me that they would add my number since I asked.  That was in 2013, I have no clue if that is still accurate.  I asked them to add my Sherpa to the list, but I have no clue if they did so.

It is my understanding that this is specific to the UK.
https://www.bikeregister.com

I am in USA, I have put my bikes with serial numbers on this website:
https://bikeindex.org/serials
They used to sell stickers, ten for a few bucks, I put a sticker on each of my bikes to alert police that my bike is on that registry.  They no longer sell generic stickers, but they do sell QR code stickers that are more expensive and scannable, I have not bought those.

My community used to have a bike licensing program, I licensed my bikes.  The city dropped it, so if my bike is stolen I have no clue if they lost their database of numbers or not.  But I keep their stickers on my bikes even though the stickers say expired date was long ago.

A few years ago a friend told me his daughter's bike was stolen.  A few days later she found it on the internet for sale.  That is in a different state than I am in.  The police there said they would not do anything about it because she did not have proof it was hers.  I assume having your serial number on a registry would be proof in that case.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2026, 11:48:29 AM by mickeg »

Danneaux

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2026, 04:44:44 PM »
Quote
This forum has a list somewhere with Rohloff serial numbers, but it is a very short list limited to those of us that posted our numbers.

When I bought my Nomad Mk II, I only bought the frame and fork.  SJS told me they only keep a list of numbers for complete bikes they have sold, but they told me that they would add my number since I asked.  That was in 2013, I have no clue if that is still accurate.  I asked them to add my Sherpa to the list, but I have no clue if they did so.

I introduced the idea of a thorn serials registry back in 2011...
https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3788.0
It soon ran into complications I had not foreseen.

In 2012, I floated the idea of a frame-size registry so we'd have some idea of who fits what size frame based on general dimensions...
https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=5267.0
It seemed easy enough, as Thorn's receipts from the day included key body measurements supplied by owners. Alas, it went nowhere.

Frame numbers were pondered again in 2023, but again went nowhere because the task proved unwieldy...
https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=7793.msg50133#msg50133

I have maintained a Rohloff hub registry here...
https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=7767.0
...but no one has contributed in the last 2.5 years.

Instructions for registering new and used (resold, transferred ownership) hubs with Rohloff directly is available here, with direct links to the Rohloff page...
https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13317.0

In summary, the best strategy for establishing ownership seems to be registration of the bike with local municipalities or national registries, and directly with Rohloff if it has the IGH rather than a derailleur drivetrain. *So far as I know*, Thorn still does not maintain a registry of new frame serial numbers and have no way of cataloging, accessing, or updating old ones. If you purchased you bike new and still have the original build sheet and paperwork with your name on it, that should establish ownership at time of purchase but I have no idea how it would stand against a false claim of sale. It seems there is always a loophole for thieves!

Best, Dan.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2026, 05:16:45 PM by Danneaux »

mickeg

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2026, 05:33:18 PM »
On a different forum, several years ago someone posted that his Co-Motion Americano with Rohloff had been stolen.  That is a pure touring bike, he posted a notice on a touring forum in case it showed up for sale.  He also notified the local bike shops in his area.

A year or two later, a bike shop called him.  Someone had brought in an Americano, the serial numbers on the frame and Rohloff had been ground off, frame had been repainted with a very bad job of painting.  He went to the bike shop, said it was his, asked the police to get involved.  He got to keep the bike.  The person that brought it to the bike shop could not be proven to be the thief, so no charges were filed.

By the time he got the bike back, his insurance policy had paid for a new bike.  I do not recall if the Americano went to the insurance company or if they gifted it to him.  It apparently was in bad shape with a crappy new paint job at that time.  I believe that he is using his new bike (with Pinion) for his current touring endeavors, not the old recovered one.

Andyb1

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2026, 07:03:35 PM »
I introduced the idea of a thorn serials registry back in 2011...
https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3788.0
It soon ran into complications I had not foreseen.


I had a read through this thread and I could not see the reasons why it did not happen.
One person suggested that there might be an issue with personal data laws - but when the bike owner themselves is putting their info voluntarily in a post would that be an issue?
Every other post was very positive about it.
Difficult to see how a thief could learn where a Thorn is stored either, and most bike thefts seem to happen when a bike is parked away from home.
Or am I missing something?

There would be some work setting up the thread (Dan?) but once set up it should run itself.

The benefit for sellers is that they could point their buyer to this forum and show that they had the bike ?years ago.
For buyers it means there is more chance that the bike they want to buy is legit.

It may not be 100% accurate (and that should be clear at the top on the post) but I think it could be useful.

I wonder how many bikes would be on it?  One hundred?   Having one list for solos and one for tandems would simplify searches.   

I had a look at the Rohloff web site but there seems to be no way for me to check if a hub that I might want to buy has been stolen.  What appears to happen is that an owner can flag up the theft of their hub and then if one day it goes to a Rohloff service centre ‘something’ is done about it.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2026, 08:27:33 PM by Andyb1 »

Danneaux

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Re: Thorn Serials (forked from Raven Tour face lift)
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2026, 09:46:20 PM »
We were rapidly diverging from the original topic header, so I split this discussion into its own fork while I could do so cleanly.

Quote
I had a read through this thread and I could not see the reasons why it did not happen.

As usual with admin-related topics, a number of members contacted me off-forum (via PM or email) about the topic. In the end, off-Forum opposition exceeded the enthusiasm we saw on the Forum. There's a lot to be said for sharing serials openly online and creating our own registry...and a lot of concerns for some which I hadn't realized.

<checks notes>
• Chief among the concerns were fear of fraudulent registry related to various online sales boards like Gumtree, Facebook Marketplace, and Craigslist, where "concerns" were cited (no hard evidence) of photographed or listed serials being used by thieves to falsely register another's bike as their own. Of course, queries are often made here regarding the serials of bikes as they relate to size or date of manufacture and people sometimes post the whole serial.

• In the end, most detractors indicated they prefer national registries *because* access to the serials is restricted except when needed for registration, inquiry, or proof -- and in many cases, the serial is secondary to a ticket/sticker number, which adds a layer of anonymity to further prevent fraud. With such registries in existence and with much greater reach and scope than this Forum, it made these efforts seem rather lacking and duplicative with no benefit. Most of these larger registires are familiar to police departments and if they see the sticker, they will check the registry.

• There were various ideas for me as Forum administrator to become a repository for this information, in part because I live in the US Pacific Northwest, far from where most Thorns are located. I wasn't/am not too keen on that idea for a number of reasons.

• We (myself and the off-forum correspondents) concluded the best and most workable solution would be to use some existing cycle registry, then as a further hedge against theft, record that data tag number as well as the bike serial number and a photo, perhaps including one of the owner posed with the bike. In the event the bike was stolen, report it to the registry, then post the photo(s) and information here on a case-by-case basis for members to keep eyes open, particulalry in the locale. Obviously, this would work best for bikes located in the UK...where most Thorns are sold.

• Also, the "finding" of an owner can be a bit iffy here. Members know one another only by their screen names, not their real ones. Bikes can go missing for years before recovery, if ever. Former owners of stolen bikes may have moved-on from the Forum by the time it is recovered...long after in insurance settlement is made. In the scenario mentioned by George (mickeg), what happens to the found bike after settlement is complete?

• I don't recall exact Forum membership at the time I first proposed the registry, but we currently have 3,725 members, so the expressed approval was far from a mandate. The Rohloff listing has 77 entries at last count. It serves as an informal database but some members have left, others haven't logged-on for years, and still others I know have sold their bikes but not deleted their entries. I had thought it would be an easy self-running task: Copy and Paste my line and add Your own. Unfortunately, this was a task beyond what all could or were willing to do, so I ended up doing all the additions, deletions, alterations, and recompiling in numerical order. You'll note Julk lost his Rohloff EXP to a thief in 2010 and it was never recovered, despite the notice posted here.

So, this is why things never moved forward.

I realize that while my 2012 Nomad Mk2 is everything to me, it has fallen off the charts for many thieves except for the Rohloff hub. It has 26in wheels/tires and is far heavier/heavier-duty than current bikepacking and gravel bikes. Formerly top-end 26in MTBs of all brands are going for peanuts on the used market, a few finding life as enduro-allroads (mine) or drop-bar pseudo-gravel bikes. Thr hot ticket for bike theft locally is now e-Bikes, more specifically e-Bike batteries. These are rarely well-secured, easily unlocked, often unserialed, and easy to resell. I spoke to a local dealer about this and he said once customers learned the price of replacement batteries, they were very attracted to buying "rebuilt" ones from Craigslist...not rebuilt but stolen and resold, possibly to the same owners who lost them.

Best, Dan.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2026, 09:49:47 PM by Danneaux »