Nomad Mk3 26inch or 700c

[dsim]

I recently cycled to Georgia but have returned home for the winter to save some more money before continuing to central Asia.

My bike is currently using 26 inch wheels with 50mm Marathon Mondials since Schwalbe stopped making the wider versions at 26 inch. I am going to ask SJS to rebuild my rear Rohloff wheel with 36h instead of 32h as I had some spoke breakages which I'd like to minimise for the rest of my trip. I am also going to have a new front wheel built as I've changed to a Surly fork which uses a different thru axle standard.

The Surly fork can use up to 700c x 50.

Is the Nomad MK3 really restricted to 700c x 40? That's the width I keep seeing, but that seems really narrow - my Spa Cycles D'tour has the same max width for 700c!

In Bulgaria, I had a tyre side wall-bead failure which needed replacing the following day. It was pretty difficult to find a suitable 26 inch tyre, while there were loads of good options for 700c. This prompted me to think about switching wheel size.

My intention is to ride a mixture of gravel and tarmac, but I prefer to use gravel routes where possible.

Can you advise me on whether I should go for 700c or stay with 26 inch, considering the potentially better availability of spares now that 26inch seems to be getting more niche versus the wider tyres that I can use with 26 inch.

Thanks for any help!
David

[WorldTourer]

Have you considered 27.5"/650B? Then the ride isn’t going to feel much different from the 26" you are used to, but unlike 26" where options are dwindling, Schwalbe releases all its options in 650B. At 650B wheel size, the Nomad Mk3 (with the Thorn Bikepacking Fork up front) will fit up to 2.60" tire width, so you’re good for some famous sandy routes; honestly, the Surly fork might have been a step down.

Tire availability on the Central Asia route isn’t a big problem. I cycled from the Caucasus through the Pamirs last season, and when I needed to replace a 650B tire, I easily found someone through the WhatsApp group that everyone is on (“Cycling East”) who was flying in to Central Asia, and was willing to bring along some spare parts for people.

Even if you don’t plan to use tubeless tires anytime soon, you should future-proof the build by asking SJS to use a tubeless-ready rim.

I’m really surprised that you broke spokes on a SJS-built 32h Rohloff wheel. Never had a broken spoke on that in tens of thousands of km of cycling rough roads and singletrack, though I am a rather light rider. If you want 36h, wouldn't that require getting a completely new Rohloff shell?

[dsim]

I haven't really considered 650b as I assumed that it would have even worse parts availability than 26inch! Perhaps that isn't the case though.


The Surly fork is so I can use their 24 pack rack as I'm wanting to move away from panniers to reduce weight and make it a bit more aero (if it's in line with my body, it's fine).

I broke one spoke pretty early on in the trip and fixed it as soon as I head it go. It was on a fairly reasonable tarmac cycle path so I was surprised it broke then. The second spoke breakage was on the very last day as I rode into Tbilisi! Not sure where it happened exactly, as I couldn't find a broken spoke when I heard the noise, but I found the broken spoke while I was packing the bike up for the flight.

I'm pretty heavy (105kg) and my total bike weight + luggage excluding water and food was 52kg! I only found out at the airport - the total weight excludes the bike box and bags I used for the flight.

[PH]

Is the Nomad MK3 really restricted to 700c x 40? That's the width I keep seeing, but that seems really narrow - my Spa Cycles D'tour has the same max width for 700c!

Yes, I'm pretty sure they weren't designed for 700c, they were experimenting with the idea when I visited the shop.  I used 700c when I bought mine, I already had the wheels, even 40mm is pushing it if there's a bit of tread.  I rebuilt as 650B and IMO it rides a lot better for it.  For heavily loaded touring, I'm not sure you'll see much benefit swapping 26" to 27.5, there's only one way to know, unless you can borrow some.
I'm a bit surprised you broke spokes, I've broken more hubs than spokes! Actually, I've never broken a spoke on a Rohloff wheel, was it a SJS build?

[Andyb1]

You have probably realised this, but fitting larger diameter wheels will of course raise the whole bike and will make getting on and off, or putting a foot down more tricky, particularly with luggage.  Pedal clearance from the ground will be good though!
 

[mickeg]

I think you can't switch to 36 spoke.  The shell is shaped for either 16 or 18 spokes on each side.

Could it have been a bad batch of spokes?  I think it was over a decade ago, Sapim had a bad batch of metal and made a lot of defective spokes.  I assume your spokes were much newer than that batch.  That bad batch, the spokes often broke in the middle, not the ends.

The only spokes I have ever had break were on an early 1960s tubular tire wheel.

I got a dent in a spoke on my Rohloff wheel, see photo, but the spoke did not break.  My spokes are Wheelsmith which is no longer in business.  When I got home, I replaced that dented spoke.

[dsim]

For heavily loaded touring, I'm not sure you'll see much benefit swapping 26" to 27.5, there's only one way to know, unless you can borrow some.
I'm a bit surprised you broke spokes, I've broken more hubs than spokes! Actually, I've never broken a spoke on a Rohloff wheel, was it a SJS build?

I think I'm going to stick with 26 inch now as 40mm is too narrow and 650b seems like it might be more complication for little benefit. Even though 26 inch is slowly dying, I'm confident that it will still be more available than 650b.

Both wheels were built by SJS in March after I decided to switch to disc brakes rather than rim brakes. The rear was rebuilt because I wasn't happy going on the trip with the brake wear on the surface.

SJS quoted me for a Rohloff wheel build including changing the shell from 32h to 36h. I'm happy to eat the cost and slightly heavier wheel to minimise spoke breakages since I've got much rougher sections to come.

Not sure why I got broken spokes, as my previous SJS-built wheels had no problems. But myself plus carrying too a lot of stuff (which I'm going to be cutting down on quite a lot) likely contributed much more than anything on SJS' side

[dsim]

Tire availability on the Central Asia route isn’t a big problem. I cycled from the Caucasus through the Pamirs last season, and when I needed to replace a 650B tire, I easily found someone through the WhatsApp group that everyone is on (“Cycling East”) who was flying in to Central Asia, and was willing to bring along some spare parts for people.

Even if you don’t plan to use tubeless tires anytime soon, you should future-proof the build by asking SJS to use a tubeless-ready rim.

I’m really surprised that you broke spokes on a SJS-built 32h Rohloff wheel. Never had a broken spoke on that in tens of thousands of km of cycling rough roads and singletrack, though I am a rather light rider. If you want 36h, wouldn't that require getting a completely new Rohloff shell?

I'd prefer not to rely on other travellers to bring stuff as that would probably be a headache organising. Think I'm going to switch to 26 inch since I'm sure it'll be available, even if not in the exact model/width/tread that I'd prefer. 700c x 40 is too narrow.

I'll see if SJS can build it tubeless ready. The rims I'm using currently are Ryde Andra 30 which aren't compatible with tubeless. Can you recommend a suitable tubeless ready and strong rim? Ryde Andra is probably overkill. I'm trying to reduce bike and luggage weight where possible without significantly impacting reliability.

SJS quoted me for changing the Rohloff shell to 36h and a wheel build. It's not cheap, but I think it'll be worth it

[dsim]

I think you can't switch to 36 spoke.  The shell is shaped for either 16 or 18 spokes on each side.

Could it have been a bad batch of spokes?  I think it was over a decade ago, Sapim had a bad batch of metal and made a lot of defective spokes.  I assume your spokes were much newer than that batch.  That bad batch, the spokes often broke in the middle, not the ends.

The only spokes I have ever had break were on an early 1960s tubular tire wheel.

I got a dent in a spoke on my Rohloff wheel, see photo, but the spoke did not break.  My spokes are Wheelsmith which is no longer in business.  When I got home, I replaced that dented spoke.

The wheel was built in March by SJS so I doubt it was affected by a bad batch from a while ago. I'm blaming my weight and luggage weight combined with how I was riding over anything on SJS' side.

The ride to Tbilisi has already reduced my weight a bit, and going to be taking off another 10-15kg of luggage weight too, so I think that plus 36h should fix the problem.

I carry spare spokes anyway and they are easy to change, but I'm lazy and don't like getting off the bike to faff.

[mickeg]

Sounds like you have a plan. 

Keep in mind that tubeless ready rims, if you are using tube type tires can be harder to remove and replace tires because there is a shelf that the tire bead sits on.  Some people have found it difficult to get the bead off of that shelf if they get a flat.  It does vary some based on tire, some will have a slightly tighter bead.  And you may need stronger tire levers.

But, if you go tubeless, then of course you need tubeless ready rims.

You may want to keep your old rims, just in case you go back to them later.

[Andyb1]

Are there many tubeless 26 inch tyres available? (apart from massive MTB knobblies).


My experience from time in India and Nepal is that in that part of the world it is easy enough to find a 26 inch tyre - but it may not be a good quality one.  And it certainly will not be tubeless.  There are still a lot of bikes being mass produced with 26 inch wheels as that size of wheel is more in proportion with smaller frame sizes.


I think that as time goes on the problem is going to be the availability of good quality 26 inch tyres.   Time to buy a couple of spare Marathons?

[WorldTourer]

I'd prefer not to rely on other travellers to bring stuff as that would probably be a headache organising. Think I'm going to switch to 26 inch since I'm sure it'll be available, even if not in the exact model/width/tread that I'd prefer. 700c x 40 is too narrow.

I'll be honest, I think you're making a big mistake. Even if 26" tires are available on the route, they would generally be low-quality Chinese tires meant for locals riding short distances around cities, with little puncture protection or longevity. I talked to plenty of tourers and bikepackers last season who had to replace tires on route, and they generally ordered from Europe (oddly enough, SJS was said to have fast shipping to Tajikistan) or they arranged, like me, to have a tourer bring them when flying in.

And, as Andy says, 26" is regarded in the bike-travel industry as a dying format, and Schwalbe has already begun reducing its support for this size.

Choosing a rim based on weight, when you are already adding weight to the spoke count, might be risky. I’d go for reliability, and simply appreciate any small gram savings that might come compared to the Andra.

If you want a tubeless-ready rim as reliable as the Ryde Andra, then there is the Ryde Edge M 30 (which, however, does not come in 26", just 27.5"/650B and 700c). However, I'm not sure the Edge has the special drilling that Rohloff highly recommends. Rohloff’s FAQ mentions either the Ryde Andra rim which is not tubeless-ready, or (a company I hadn't heard of before) a Rad15 rim which is tubeless-ready.

[Danneaux]

If you already have and enjoy 26 in wheels and the bikes they are on cannot be readily converted to discs or take larger tires in larger diameter rim sizes (as it the case with my own Nomad Mk2, my tandem and my Enduro-Allroad/bikepacking bike), one option is to carry a folding spare.

I do that, swapping it between these bikes when I use them for extended tours where finding a spare (of any kind) might be iffy. It would buy time till an ordered replacement could arrive or a shop found that had better quality stock.

My folding 26 x 2.0 Schwalbe Dureme spare rides in a thin dry sack at the bottom of one of my panniers. When loaded for expeditions (i.e. self-supported for 3 weeks away from resupply), the added weight is a small percentage if what I already carry and has been well worth it for my peace of mind. So far it has not been needed, a state that will probably end now I've mentioned it!

Best, Dan.

[PH]

Not sure why I got broken spokes, as my previous SJS-built wheels had no problems. But myself plus carrying too a lot of stuff (which I'm going to be cutting down on quite a lot) likely contributed much more than anything on SJS' side

I'm not sure either, but I think you should just put it down to bad luck.  Even if you were to be unlucky again, is it really that big a deal? Thorn choose 32 as standard and did so even when they were building more robust expedition bikes. A 32 Rohloff wheel is stronger than a 36 dished derailleur one and the only time I've seen more spokes than that it's been for tandem use.
But your money your choice, 26" tyres are going to be around for decades yet, you could still get 650B's during the thirty years they were out of fashion, not the same choice, but not obsolete either.  I sometimes tour on a 24" wheel folder, that's not an easy size to find, so like Dan I carry a spare, even though the touring it gets used for isn't as far from civilisation as his. If I was touring somewhere remote, I'd be a bit concerned with having a 26" 36H rim, 32 is pretty much the standard in the MTB world, I don't know if that's generally the case, but I'd want to check it out.  Just had a quick scan of the SJS offerings and there seem to be more than twice the 32's as 36's and they're a specialist supplier.

[mickeg]

If you already have and enjoy 26 in wheels and the bikes they are on cannot be readily converted to discs or take larger tires in larger diameter rim sizes (as it the case with my own Nomad Mk2, my tandem and my Enduro-Allroad/bikepacking bike), one option is to carry a folding spare.
...

Some trips I carry a spare tire, some I do not. 

But I will always be carrying a spare for 26 inch wheels, as bike shops are not likely to have what I want.

Usually my spare has not been a "replacement" tire that is as good as the ones on my wheels, instead it has usually been a lighter weight, possibly narrower tire that can get me to a bike shop or to a place where I can order a tire if necessary. 

My last tour, used Schwalbe 700c 37mm tires, front was an XR (discontinued years ago) and rear a Mondial.  But my spare was a very light weight folding cyclocross 33mm wide tire.  Something that would at least give me several hundred miles, but likely not thousands.

But if I was going to be in some far off place, I would be more inclined to carry a replacement quality tire.

When planning a trip, I will think about the worst possible place to have a mechanical issue.  And I plan my tools and spares accordingly.  Thus, the spare tire might not have to be a long distance tire, or it might need to be.