Mercury or Nomad MK3 700c

[Matt2matt2002]

That was an excellent (and necessary, i feel) response by Robin, so thanks to him (and Dan!).

I’m lucky enough to have a Raven Tour and a Mercury and I’ve built up a little collection of replacement parts, such as eccentric bottom brackets, due to waking in the early hours with irrational thoughts of S.J.S. suddenly being sold, boarded up and all stock immediately melted down.

I’ve had the Raven almost 16 years and there is no reason why it won’t keep going as long as a few specialist components remain available, so i have no need for another bike.  Having said that, I got the Mercury as a well deserved 50th birthday present to myself, so i’m sure that if another model was available in 8 years time for my 60th, I should be allowed a look. In my opinion.

Nice points here.
Thanks

I also have the Raven Tour ( 17 years I think ) and cannot see me buying any other bike in the future. I celebrated the big seven 0 last month.
 For me it ticks all my boxes; daily trips around my home area & much longer tours abroad.

Lets wish Robin and his team all the best for 2024.

[DIAGMONKEY]

I did have the Club tour  setup with a Rohloff and a chain tensioner for a while. Whilst it  worked OK, I found the gear change with drop bars and the rohloff more awkward than with STI shifters.

Pity that didn't work out, I remember the thread, though these things are always worth trying.

It did not work as well as I expected, but it was a fairly cheap way of finding out what works and does not work for me. It was a good learning curve and will has probably helped me avoid an expensive mistake moving forward.

[JohnR]

I've been toying with the idea of fitting drop bars on my Rohloff bike to try to reduce the wind drag so the comments above are useful. The cheapest solution seems to be to use the Van Nicohlas Rohloff drop bars (which split in the middle) with the Tektro RL540 road drop brake levers (as in the build here https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/bikes/thorn-audax-mk4-700c-with-rohloff-and-drop-bars-55-gumetal-new/). However, gear shifting will necessitate temporarily moving a hand. The best, but more expensive, solution is to use the Gebla Rohbox with modified SRAM brifters so gear shifting doesn't require additional hand movements. I have deferred a decision on this investment.

[mickeg]

I've been toying with the idea of fitting drop bars on my Rohloff bike to try to reduce the wind drag so the comments above are useful. The cheapest solution seems to be to use the Van Nicohlas Rohloff drop bars (which split in the middle) with the Tektro RL540 road drop brake levers (as in the build here https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/bikes/thorn-audax-mk4-700c-with-rohloff-and-drop-bars-55-gumetal-new/). However, gear shifting will necessitate temporarily moving a hand. The best, but more expensive, solution is to use the Gebla Rohbox with modified SRAM brifters so gear shifting doesn't require additional hand movements. I have deferred a decision on this investment.

I tried several locations for my Rohloff shifter, but one day when I was pedaling up a steep hill on a very rough gravel road, I had my hands out to the sides of the drop bars where I had good leverage for steering, but my shifter was closer to the steerer tube, thus if my hand was on the shifter, I did not have much leverage for shifting.  Several times during that day I wished that my shifter was off to the side where I could have my hand for shifting and steering.  And during that day on one of many steep uphills, I decided I wanted my shifter on the bar end where I had good leverage for shifting.

I have been using bar end shifters on several derailleur bikes for decades, so I am used to reaching to that location to shift, so for me it was a logical choice.

I do not remember the details but I think I bought the Shimano version of the Hubbub Adapter, not the Rohloff version and I think I cut off the extra length with a hack saw.  At the time I could not buy the Rohloff version.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/hubbub-drop-bar-adaptor-mount-for-rohloff-63-mm/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/hubbub-drop-bar-adaptor-mount-for-twistgrip-73-mm/

I did not cut my handlebar shorter.

I used two V brake noodles that I sprayed black to bend my cable forwards from the shifter so that the cable is not anywhere near my knees when I am on the bike.

I am very happy with this setup.

Keep in mind that if your frame is sized for flat bars, you likely have a longer top tube than ideal for drop bars.  I ordered my frame size on my Rohloff bike with the intent to use drop bars.

[UKTony]

I've been toying with the idea of fitting drop bars on my Rohloff bike to try to reduce the wind drag so the comments above are useful. The cheapest solution seems to be to use the Van Nicohlas Rohloff drop bars (which split in the middle) with the Tektro RL540 road drop brake levers (as in the build here https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/bikes/thorn-audax-mk4-700c-with-rohloff-and-drop-bars-55-gumetal-new/). However, gear shifting will necessitate temporarily moving a hand. The best, but more expensive, solution is to use the Gebla Rohbox with modified SRAM brifters so gear shifting doesn't require additional hand movements. I have deferred a decision on this investment.

The as new Mercury Mk2 size 580L I bought on eBay last year had been converted by the seller to drop bars with the shifter on the short (105mm) version of Thorn’s accessory T-bar. So the shifter was quite close to the steerer and slightly obscured by the bars which were on a short stem presumably to compensate for the L(ong) top tube frame.

It’s a 580L frame and when new came in the straight bar set up. I wasn’t looking for a drop bar bike but this one came with the original straight bar and V brake levers. After a year and 1100 miles I decided last August to canvert it back to straight bars. The cockpit arrangement now pretty much mirrors the arrangement on my Mk2 Nomad - Thorn Flat Track bars, Shimano XT V Brake levers and Ergon GP5L grips with integral adjustable bar ends. Main differences are that the bars are cut to 540mm on the Nomad and 520 on the Mercury and the stems are 120mm and 110 respectively, both 17° rise.

All of my riding at the moment, on the Mercury ir Nomad, is day rides, unloaded apart from basic necessities. The routes are mostly on shared cycle paths, tow paths, narrow, up and down and bendy uneven, oft potholed lanes. I make full use of the Rohloff abibility for rapid sequential up and down gear changing to cater for changes  in terrain, obstacles etc to maintain knee-saving cadence  and a decent speed, (not fast). Having the shifter close to hand on the flat bars gives me the gear and bike control I need. The GP5L bar ends on my flat bars give me enough leeway to lower my profile against the wind where necessary.

 The requirements for riding a slower laiden touring bike on less complicated routes, and moving to the drops for less wind resistance for longer periods when carrying heavy loads , might suit having drop bars without the shifter immediately to hand. I don’t know because I don’t do fully loaded touring. However, I do know that for my type of riding I didn’t like moving my hand off the tops of the drop bars and the potential loss of control that could ensue.
 

[PH]

I've been toying with the idea of fitting drop bars on my Rohloff bike to try to reduce the wind drag so the comments above are useful.

I think there's lots of reasons why people would choose the bars that suit them, but I'm not convinced the old theories about aerodynamics are still relevant.  I can get myself as low on my straight bars as I ever could on drops.  I frequently ride  in groups where I'm tucked in more than some of my companions with drop bars, some of whom I've never seen use the drops.  For me, the limiting factors are flexibility, physique, fitness and age.  I could maybe improve those, except age, and I'd still expect to be able to get as low on straights as drops.
You could take this all the way up to the professional sharp end. The now banned puppy paws position is easily replicated on straight bars with inboard mini bar ends,  In time trials, where aerodynamics are of the utmost importance, no one uses drop bars.  Even on a solo breakaway you're more likely to see a rider forward on the hoods than in the drops,  there are exceptions, but when you see a pro in the drops it's more likely to be about power transfer than aerodynamics.  Some of this might be fashion, but it's all tested to the nth degree.

[mickeg]

I used to detest drop bars, used the drops no more than 5 percent of the time.

Then I lost about 15 percent of my body weight, most of that was from the abdomen.  And suddenly riding in the drops was much more comfortable.

Last spring I signed up for a 200k brevet, the forecast was no more than about 15 km/hr winds, but at the start it was clear that the forecast was quite wrong.  First 80 km was pushing into a really strong head wind.  A few times per hour I would sit more upright for a few minutes, but rode about 90 percent of that first 40 percent of the brevet in the drops.

The tops of my drop bars are about the same height as the top of the saddle. So, when I am riding in the drops, I am probably more upright than a pro cyclist is when they are on the hoods, as their bars are exceptionally low. 

Each of us has our own opinions, that is mine.  The stronger the headwind, the more valuable the drop bars are to me. 

But I certainly understand that some do not like using the drops.  A friend of mine used to ride with drop bars, never used the drops.  So, he converted one of his bikes to the bars in the photo, I think they are called bull horn bars.  Note his bar end shifters on the ends.  This is on his touring bike.  His hand positions are very similar to riding on the hoods on drop bars.

[JohnR]

I think there's lots of reasons why people would choose the bars that suit them, but I'm not convinced the old theories about aerodynamics are still relevant.  I can get myself as low on my straight bars as I ever could on drops.  I frequently ride  in groups where I'm tucked in more than some of my companions with drop bars, some of whom I've never seen use the drops.  For me, the limiting factors are flexibility, physique, fitness and age.  I could maybe improve those, except age, and I'd still expect to be able to get as low on straights as drops.

I find that the lower I get my head down with my flat bars then the more my elbows stick out. My recent bike build with drop bars seems to be about 5% faster than my Rohloff bike with flat bars. That may not all be due to reduction of wind drag as a new derailleur drivetrain could well be more efficient than a Rohloff hub + a chainglider but I feel that cycling into the wind is less effort. I spend most of my time on the hoods and agree that being in the drops doesn't give much further improvement, perhaps because the bars are fairly high (top roughly at saddle level). Hands on hoods (with instant access to gears and brakes) and with elbows tucked in should be a lower drag position than flat bars and it feels that way. The narrower the bars then the lower the drag but also less lever arm for controlling the steering. Should I assign my Rohloff bike for use with more load and/or rougher ground conditions then it makes sense to leave it with flat bars.

[JohnR]

But I certainly understand that some do not like using the drops.  A friend of mine used to ride with drop bars, never used the drops.  So, he converted one of his bikes to the bars in the photo, I think they are called bull horn bars.  Note his bar end shifters on the ends.  This is on his touring bike.  His hand positions are very similar to riding on the hoods on drop bars.

That's an interesting photo. The handlebar configuration would work with a Rohloff hub using modified brifters and the Gebla Rohbox.

[DIAGMONKEY]

I find this quite a useful tool for predicting my average speed when using different configurations... My two bikes are quite different.

http://bikecalculator.com/

If you change the variables it gives a pretty good indication of how much faster or slower you are likely to be.

For me, there is a very slight speed advantage to drop bars on a faster road based touring bike.  I do use the drops, but mostly when descending because I feel it offers better braking performance when compared with braking from the hoods.

In the end my fitness level makes way more difference to my average speed than the bike or any single component choice. My lighter bike feels a lot faster, unfortunately Strava shows me my average speed only increases by a relatively small amount maybe a couple of miles per hour.

[mickeg]

...
That's an interesting photo. The handlebar configuration would work with a Rohloff hub using modified brifters and the Gebla Rohbox.

If you want to use brifters and do not want to use drops, you could saw off the drops.  But it would look really weird.

He did saw off the drops and used brifters.  He wanted to have an extremely light bike for good reason, he was going for time with a lot of climbing.
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/ronan-mclaughlin-everesting-bike

[JohnR]

If you want to use brifters and do not want to use drops, you could saw off the drops.  But it would look really weird.

He did saw off the drops and used brifters.  He wanted to have an extremely light bike for good reason, he was going for time with a lot of climbing.
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/ronan-mclaughlin-everesting-bike

Thanks for the interesting article. I don't like excess weight but won't go to that extreme!

[PH]

My point about bar shape and aerodynamics may have been lost or misunderstood, maybe a picture will better illustrate it (No, this isn't me  )

It isn't the shape of the bar that matters, it's where it enables you to hold a position.  I have no argument with those for whom that's a drop bar, only with those who jump to that conclusion because they think it's the only way or that's what everyone else does.

[mickeg]

My point about bar shape and aerodynamics may have been lost or misunderstood, maybe a picture will better illustrate it (No, this isn't me  )

It isn't the shape of the bar that matters, it's where it enables you to hold a position.  I have no argument with those for whom that's a drop bar, only with those who jump to that conclusion because they think it's the only way or that's what everyone else does.

Your example is a good one, he is quite aero shaped without using drop bars.

I never bend my elbows that much.  In the attached photo, my hands are on the bar tops, but even if I was riding on the drops I would not be leaning forward anywhere as much as your example, as my arms would have little bend at the elbows.  I also have a visor on my helmet that would prevent me from seeing if I was as far forward as your example.  Photo is on my titanium touring bike, not a Thorn.

[SteveM]

I have both the Mercury Mk III and the Nomad Mk II.  The Mercury has noticeably shorter chain stays, and is less stiff than the Nomad.  I toured on the Merc but I was limited for weight and that caused a little stress. The Nomad is a tank and can handle anything.  It has much wider tires and that softens the ride quite a lot.  I have Shwalbe Duremes and they are really good. 

The Mercury is a lot faster on the road but they are different bikes designed for different things really.  The Merc would be a great day ride or Audax bike, the Nomad is a ‘go to’ for pannier based touring.  Both gorgeous bikes in my opinion.  I love them both.  But IMO - Merc is a day ride, light tourer and the Nomad is the beast of burden.

Both mine have the Rohloff and I am never going back you will not regret it.”