Beverley to Milton Keynes

[PH]

About the bike:
With the Rohloff I grip the handlebar at the outside side, so when I need to shift it means I let my right (stronger) hand off the grip to slip it inwards to the gear shifter. I think I read somewhere that some company produces thumb shifters for Rohloff. Does anyone have experience with it?

I'm not sure i follow that, my hand is always on the shifter, it forms part of the grip.  Do you mean when you're on the bar ends?  That would mean moving your hand to change gear regardless of shifter.
Re trigger shifters _There was a short lived production of the Cinq5 shifters which apparently were very nice, I don't know why they were only around a while, other than they cost £300 ten years ago.  Currently available is the Gebla Robox that requires a modified STI shifter, predominantly developed for drop bars, there's no reason they can't be used with flat bar shifters. I have no experience, mixed reports on the www
http://www.rohbox.com/

Is this normal or sign of cable problem?

It's hard to tell without a comparison.  Disconnect the cable box and spin the shifter, it should do so with next to no resistance, if not, there's a cable problem. Check for any kinks, or ferrules not seated right, it seems a bit unlikely considering the use it's had.  I wouldn't be thinking too much about changes till you were more familiar with it.

Back to the important stuff - The trip is looking great!

[Danneaux]

I think I read somewhere that some company produces thumb shifters for Rohloff. Does anyone have experience with it?

Yes, here...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=10585.0
In my experience, every Rohloff shifter has dis/advantages in one area or another. It is mostly a matter of picking the one best suited for your needs and it may require buying and trying and then selling-on. I did that with the Cinq5 thumbshifters, which in the end proved to be not as good for my needs as the "wavy-grip" Rohloff shifter mounted on a Thorn Accessory T-bar (remember, I use drop handlebars; this setup would be far less convenient with straight handlebars). The person who bought mine was very enthusiastic about them, so no accounting for taste.

There are several full-length, 3-D printed grip-shifts available in the aftermarket but they aren't inexpensive and they aren't (can't be, really) ergonomic and they feel and are pretty hard. Works great on a trike with upright shifter, less well on a straight bicycle handlebar. A sample here... https://www.utahtrikes.com/PROD-11620101.html

Best, Dan.

[flocsy]

PH, no I don't mean when my hand is on the bar ends/horns, then I would need to move my hand even with the Shimano. What I mean is that my right hand is on the right side of the (static) grip. This is how it's comfortable, and also with some weight in the front panniers wider handlebar (or using the widest part of the flat part of the handlebar) feels more secure. I have small palms, so I barely touch the gear shifter part of the grip, and even if I touch it, I can't change gears with 2 fingers.
BTW I also noticed and was a bit surprised by it, that the 2 brake levers are not in the same position. With the right hand I can comfortably brake with one finger, while with the left hand with 2 fingers, when my hands are symmetrical. I expected that the Rohloff specific shorter right grip is shorter by the exact width of the gear shifter but that seems not to be the case.

[JohnR]

The Ergon GP1 grips have a Rohloff/Nexus option where the right grip is shorter than the left.
https://www.merlincycles.com/assets/images/productImage_470_470_ffffff_image-jpeg/108135_ergon_gp1_grips.jpg

I use those grips and part of my right hand is over the ribs on the Rohloff shifter so it's a matter of squeeze and turn.

You will have to trouble-shoot the cause of the stiffness. Note that before unscrewing the ex-box it's advisable to shift to 14th (or 1st gear) so you know what gear the shifter needs to be set to before refitting the ex-box.

[PH]

I use those grips and part of my right hand is over the ribs on the Rohloff shifter so it's a matter of squeeze and turn.

Likewise, maybe flocsy has some alternative set up, I know Andy Blance has a preference for a full length grip which would mean moving the hand a couple of cm.  I also don't understand flocsy's need to use two fingers to shift, I think that's always going to be troublesome, the shifter should sit in the purlicue of the hand, I can't imagine it being anywhere else.
The Rohloff Ergon grips do come in two sizes, though I think the only difference is the flat of the pad, all dimensions and details are clear on their website.

[UKTony]

My Nomad came with the non Rohloff GP5L grip so I trimmed about 2cm off the right hand grip with a Stanley knife. This means that when riding with my hand over to the right I only need to move it about an inch to the left to change gear(s). I always wear cycling gloves which improves my hold on the rubber grip especially when it’s raining or hands are sweaty.

Last year I bought a Mercury that had had virtually no use since new in 2013. After I bought it one of my checks was to make sure the shifter grip was greased as per the Rohloff User Handbook. It was completely dry.
So, when you get back to home base and have a closer look at the shifter cabling, as JohnR suggests, I suggest also removing the rubber grip and greasing (with Vaseline) between it and the shifter housing and the rubber O ring as per Rohloff advice here,

https://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/user_upload/manual_En_2017_11_update_2.pdf

I agree with PH that shifting with finger and thumb is always going to be troublesome. I can’t imaging the full-on mountain bikers for whom the Rohloff hub etc was originally designed attempting this 🙂

[flocsy]

Good news: turning the stem upwards this morning helped a lot! The new setup is in the 1st pic (though I'll increase the barends' angle a bit more upwards)

Bad news: indeed the problem is that the Ergon GP5 (at least the pair on my bike) are identical in length. I thought that there's the shorter version for the right side for Rohloff grips and that that is the default provided by Thorn. So this explains probably most of my problems. I will need to chop it down at home or get a new set for Rohloff (if it's even possible in GP5) and put this pair on another bike.

I don't insist to be able to shift with 2 fingers, I just assumed it should be possible, and if not then maybe some lubricating is needed (will check at home) Also now that I understand that my main problem is caused by the too long right grip I tried holding the shifter. It's better* but can't ride that way now because of the asymmetry.

*) though even holding the shifter is not as convenient as it is with Shimano, as I fear accidentally shifting on one hand and still shifting means less grip on the handlebar on the other hand.

Today I realized that one more issue is probably not the best weight distribution between the front and rear panniers. I have the S&S bike case bungee corded over the "rear rack", but really it's over the rear panniers (one negative point to the Expedition rack that it doesn't have the lower rail for the panniers) so until now I had my night stuff in the rear bags (tent, matress, sleeping bag, clothes, bathroom) and the easier reachable front bags had my day stuff (food, including 1l extra water in each side, bike tools, spares, and the heaviest: 2 giant locks) This morning I realized that my front panniers are heavier than the rear ones. So I guess this adds to my feeling of insecurity moving my hand between the comfortable riding position (palm on the gray rubber) and the shifter. I'll need to think how to improve the weight distribution (unfortunately the D-lock doesn't fit to my Vaude Aqua Plus rear panniers' smaller pocket that is easier to reach than the big cargo pocket (because of the S&S case on the top)

[PH]

Ah, a long grip and small hands goes a way to explaining it.  I'd also assumed Thorn would supply with Rohloff short grip, though the only complete bike I've bought from them was well before they used Ergons. There's a lot of experimenting to do with the bar ends to get them spot on, the ends and the grips can adjust independently.  Took me a while to get mine how I like them, I ride with someone who has theirs very different but is equally happy with them. For reference, here's my bars, it isn't possible for my right hand to be on the grips and not the shifter.

[Andre Jute]

For those who have ever felt pins and needles in hands and wrists on the handlebars, I've started a thread on ergonomics called "The technicality you can't see: handlebar ergonomics & RSI" at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14964.0

***
Flocsy: Don't let my comments in that thread bother you on your short holiday. But once back home you might want to consider what I say there about repetitive stress injury in the light of future tours you're planning.

[flocsy]

Andre, I read your post, and I agree (though in general I have a problem of not listening enough to the signs my body gives to me, maybe that's why my left shoulder has an injury since 18 months ago) but I don't know what to do with it. When I read the big Thorn broshure I noticed that handlebars are more of a compromise than anything else on the bike. It's also impossible to pick the right one (even more so since they don't have the showroom any more I guess) Not that it would help a lot when buying a second hand bike.

If I was to buy a new bike I would have hard time choosing between the comfort handlebar and the flat bar. I had barends' on my mountain bike for 30 years, so I am familiar with them and they really help on uphills and go give extra positions. Is a flat bar with bar ends better (for me) than a comfort bar? Well I don't know and I'm not even sure if a 5 minutes test ride with comfort bars would give me the answer for all day tour. Would it be possible to have comfort bars with bar ends, I would try it for sure.

And then there's the grip: it's still unclear to me wether there's a short right grip version of GP5, or if not, then is it possible to combine a short GP1 with the bar ends, or do I have to chop down the GP5 myself (I really don't like the idea... How much to chop? If it's less than the width of the Rohloff shifter then it will still be assimetric, but if I chop that much, than I think I'll also cut into the grey palm easer part...)

And with all the above set up optimally (which I have not done yet) I'm still not sure if it just takes more time to get to love the Rohloff grip shifter or that the Shimano is just that much better.

[in4]

There are rohloff specific GP5s, I have them.
I have the expedition flat bars and find them very comfortable; I like the width of them. Plus there’s more room for toys!

[flocsy]

Ok, I think I'll buy that before the next trip. Does anyone know how to know if my current grip is S or L size? What should I measure to know which one it is?

[JohnR]

My GP1L grips measure about 58mm across the widest part of the palm rests (perpendicular to the bars). Ergon make a big family of potentially suitable grips https://www.ergonbike.com/en/product?a=griffe .

[Andre Jute]

Andre, I read your post, and I agree ... but I don't know what to do with it.

That's why I separated a discussion, which will remain theoretical until you have time to do something about it, to another thread. For now you should assume that a quality bike that fits you at most pressure points was competently specified and outfitted.

There are two things you have to do before you start messing with handlebars and handlebar grips, and neither of them are suited to fine-tuning on a time-limited tour in your circumstances. You have to decide what sort of posture you want on the bike, that is the angle of your back. You have to decide the height of the saddle. Both can be set near right, and probably were or you'd be in pain now. You can fine-tune them at home, then decide on a handlebar and grips. There's plenty of experienced advice here but while you're on tour is not the right time to apply it.

And with all the above set up optimally (which I have not done yet) I'm still not sure if it just takes more time to get to love the Rohloff grip shifter or that the Shimano is just that much better.

You still haven't understood the magnitude or the timeframe of Herr Rohloff's achievement, but the shifter is a good example of Rohloff Reality. The Shimano shifter, new out of the box, feels smooth and user-friendly and probably is the best shifter in the world, if you permit the qualification "new out of the box". It's designed to survive maybe 50,000km/30,000m; many are in service well beyond that MTBF. The Rohloff shifter is a precision equipment with much closer tolerances. You need to run it in, and then it will last you 250,000m or so, just the qualification "or so" being longer than the entire expected service life of the Shimano component. Nobody knows how long the service life of a Rohloff is: it is an ever-moving target. But it takes five or seven or ten thousand kilometres for the Rohloff to be run in, depending on who you ask. I despaired of the bloody Rohloff shifter ever being as smooth and pleasing as the Shimano controls on my other HGB bikes, but it does happen. Eventually you might even be able to shift the Rohloff with two fingers as you wish to do; I now use only a thumb and a forefinger or sometimes merely a little forward or backward pressure on the flat of the original triangular shifter, and have since about 10,000km/6,000m. You can see what I mean about different magnitudes and timeframes requiring a different attitude and approach.

You're packing the experience of a year into a week, Flocsy. You're doing well. Ask Matt how long it took him to plan his first tour. I spent two or three years wondering if I really wanted a Rohloff when I was already well down another path of automatic bicycle gearboxes. Everybody who sounds more certain than you feel has been where  you started.

[JohnR]

Here's a useful guide regarding bike set-up http://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bike-set-up-2017a.pdf (a key piece of advice is that moving the saddle back reduces weight on the hands) while there are many words of wisdom in Thorn's Touring Bike Bible http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/thorn_mega_brochure.pdf .