Author Topic: 'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff  (Read 2065 times)

Tayo

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'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff
« on: June 09, 2023, 08:36:04 pm »
Can a ‘normal’ Rohloff with cables coming from the top be directly exchanged with an Exbox Rohloff with cables coming along the chainstay?

Asking this question on behalf of a shattered Hoot who tells me that Danneaux and some of the more experienced Rohloff users will know.

An interesting Q.

Danneaux

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Re: 'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2023, 08:59:47 pm »
Hi Tayo!

I'll answer as I understand your stated question: Of course, it is possible to change/convert a Rohloff hub between internal cabling and the EX shiftbox, provided the necessary hardware is acquired and installed. The cable routing might be an issue but I did once see a photo of a Raven Tour (internal cabling and routing for same along the top tube and left seatstay) converted to an Ex shift-box that appeared very successful. As I recall, doing so required the mounting bracket at the hub be "clocked" (rotated) 'round the hub so the cables' angle of approach matched that of the originally intended internal cabling (i.e. aimed at the seat cluster, parallel to the left seatstay). Memory is a bit hazy but as I recall, the original (internal) cable stop was left attached to the left brake boss but with the adjusters removed and the longer EX cable run routed through the former cable adjuster holes.

The adjusters on the EX box were left angled upward, but the owner installed some sort of sleeve over the junction to prevent water entry. I don't know for sure but suspicion cut-off v-brake rubber boots were repurposed to serve as weather seals.

Rohloff hubs running the EX box can also be converted to disc by replacing the left end-cap but as a reminder, the Raven Tour lacks ISO brake bosses on the left side and so cannot run a rear disc brake.

Hopefully helpful,

Dan.

EDIT: I see this question was also posted on the Bikes for Sale board. Please also see Paul's excellent answer there...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14884.msg112042#msg112042
« Last Edit: June 09, 2023, 09:57:28 pm by Danneaux »

Tayo

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Re: 'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2023, 09:07:18 pm »
Many thanks for responding, Dan.

 V useful.

Andre Jute

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Re: 'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2023, 11:27:28 am »
Of course, it is possible to change/convert a Rohloff hub between internal cabling and the EX shiftbox, provided the necessary hardware is acquired and installed. The cable routing might be an issue but I did once see a photo of a Raven Tour (internal cabling and routing for same along the top tube and left seatstay) converted to an Ex shift-box that appeared very successful. As I recall, doing so required the mounting bracket at the hub be "clocked" (rotated) 'round the hub so the cables' angle of approach matched that of the originally intended internal cabling (i.e. aimed at the seat cluster, parallel to the left seatstay). Memory is a bit hazy...

As a data point, when I was shopping for a Rohloff bike a dozen or so years ago, there were several new bikes that came from the factory with anticlockwise rotated EXT box fittings, some pointing upwards behind the centre of the hub and level with the axle, some at some lesser rotation like 45 degrees, some horizontal but pointing backwards rather than the optimum installation of the EXT box pointing forwards with the cables brought along the LH chainstay and dropping down underneath it near the EXT box to enter it. In all cases where the EXT box pointed backwards or up, the cable was brought along the top bar and down the seat stay some way, and then looped around in thin air to give an unstressed cable entry into the EXT box. I thought that a rather vulnerable cable run on bikes intended for the Rohloff's original target market of offroad competition.

This happened, I supposed at the time (the middle oughties), because bike manufacturers were trying to adapt old thinking, or perhaps even leftover frames, to a new technology with new requirements. I thought it was pretty slack engineering by bodgers, but it seems to me likely that Herr Rohloff at the very least did not withdraw the guarantee for such installations, and possibly even approved them or designed them for manufacturers in a bind. (It is not generally appreciated that much of the credit for clean Rohloff installations belongs not to the manufacturers but to Rohloff, which drew and provided free of charge all kinds of peripheral and installation gewgaws for their HGB.) I assumed at the time that the Rohloff pull-pull cable system made these installations possible, perhaps even indistinguishable in "feel" and operation from the obvious optimum EXT box installation (cable down the downtube, along the LH lower stay, into a forward facing EXT box).

***
This is about the cable run to some pricey new parts.

If I were faced with the dilemma of upgrading an internal change cable run to the EXT box on an existing bike, I'd grit my teeth, paint some plastic ties bike colour, and run the cable the proper way down the downtube and along the chainstay. One may not intend ever taking the bike offload but equally one could someday be riding with that impulsive person we all know who calls out, "Shortcut on this overgrown animal trail through the forest here," and turns into it without waiting for discussion.

JohnR

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Re: 'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2023, 09:53:54 am »
If I were faced with the dilemma of upgrading an internal change cable run to the EXT box on an existing bike, I'd grit my teeth, paint some plastic ties bike colour, and run the cable the proper way down the downtube and along the chainstay.
FWIW, my first Rohloff bike had the shifter cables routed along the top tube and then looped down (see photo). The gear shifting was always a bit stiff. When I moved the hub (plus wheel) to another, better, frame I used the down tube + chainstay routing which is favoured by Thorn due to fewer bends and the shifting became noticeably easier. It's also a more direct route and the cables need shortening but I'm leaving that until I think it's time to replace them.

mickeg

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Re: 'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2023, 01:56:30 pm »
I recall seeing a photo of a bike, not sure if it was a Thorn or not but I think it was, that had the shift cables along the top tube, and then followed the seat stay a short distance and then bent downwards, the cables crossed the chainstay and might have been attached to the chainstay with zip ties, and then curved to the back and ran aft to the EX box that was below the hub.

A few years ago there was a Thorn Catalyst frame on Ebay in USA.  It lacked the wheels and hubs but included a few parts like the crankset.  I considered buying it as I could move the wheels from my Nomad Mk II to the Catalyst when I wanted to.  But I would have bought an additional shifter, EX box, etc.  I was thinking of running the cables as I described above.

Andre Jute

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Re: 'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2023, 07:51:47 pm »
My word, what a clean bike, John. Or did you photograph it on the day you took delivery, as I do when I remember?

JohnR

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Re: 'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2023, 09:31:14 pm »
My word, what a clean bike, John. Or did you photograph it on the day you took delivery, as I do when I remember?
That was a photo from the website selling the bike.

PH

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Re: 'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2023, 12:04:10 pm »
Orientation of the external mechanism is all about cable run, on the Rohloff website it's shown in several configurations, there's no mechanical disadvantage to it's workings, it won't know which way up it is.  Aesthetically I think the downtube routing is more pleasing, plus the cable often has a gentler curve from shifter to first frame fitting.
I don't do much serious off road, well not deliberately,  I'm not sure Andre's analysis  is correct, top tube cable runs were a popular option for MTB's specifically to avoid the cables snagging.  Even when mild off roading, mine can become dirt traps, or collect some vegetation. 
JohnR's photo does look a poorly thought out installation, was there any need for the cable to join he seatstay so low?  The position of the brake mount doesn't help, the same cable routing on a bike with a  chainstay mount would have been a lot smoother, yes I know that introduces other compromises.  Even as it is, the friction could have been reduced, I've seen V brake noodles used for sharp bends, or a short length of Nokon outer (Which is on my list of things to try on my folder)
Poor cable runs are not exclusive to TT runs, here's an example  Google threw up, it wasn't accidental, someone was recommending it to stop water getting in.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 12:12:59 pm by PH »

Andre Jute

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Re: 'Old' Rohloff married to Exbox Rohloff
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2023, 03:34:45 pm »
Incredible! See photo of green bike immediately above in Paul's post.