40L panniers on front rack Safe?

[ourclarioncall]

Wondering if safe or wise to use 40L ortlieb panniers instead of the small 25L I see most folk using on the front rack ? I have a lower rack on a Thorn bike . It looks like a bit like letter T . The top of the T where the panniers would attach are just under the boss for the v brakes

I’d also consider a different rack of higher is better for whatever reasons

[mickeg]

The volume is not what matters, the weight in the panniers is.  That said, a bigger pannier is taller, you want to make sure your panniers are not so low to the ground that they could catch on the ground in a turn or snag  road debris, etc.

Most front racks have a weight rating.  Sometimes that rating is bogus because they want you to buy it, but the better companies have a reliable rating.

[martinf]

Wondering if safe or wise to use 40L ortlieb panniers instead of the small 25L I see most folk using on the front rack ? I have a lower rack on a Thorn bike .

My solo camping setup is Ortlieb Bike Packer Plus 40L rear panniers with added pockets on the rear rack, Ortlieb Sport Packer Plus 30L front panniers on the low-loader front rack. Plus stuff strapped to the rear rack if necessary. This is plenty enough volume for me in France and Spain, I don't do desert crossings in remote places where you need to carry lots of food and water. If I need extra water for overnight wild camping I have an Ortlieb water pouch that I can strap to the rear rack.

For shopping or transport I use Ortlieb Back Roller Pro Plus 70L rear panniers and (usually) Ortlieb Sport Packer Plus 30L front panniers. If I need more space than that I generally use my big trailer, which is good for bulky or very heavy stuff.

I occasionally use the combination of 70L rear panniers with 40L rear panniers on a low-loader Thorn front rack, but only for transport of light but fairly bulky stuff, never needed that much space for touring.

As George says, one possible issue is ground clearance, IMO mainly a problem if going off-road.

[mickeg]

...
For shopping or transport I use Ortlieb Back Roller Pro Plus 70L rear panniers and ...

I have seen photos of those panniers, but have never heard from someone that actually owned them.  Wow.  They are huge.

[mickeg]

Wondering if safe or wise to use 40L ortlieb panniers instead of the small 25L ...

If you feel you need more stuff, you can put more stuff on back.  As noted above, there are 70 liter Ortliebs.  The Carradry panniers are also larger than 40 liter.

The Carradry used to be rated at 56 or 58 liters (I do not recall exact number).  I orded a pair for a specific trip where I needed a lot of volume on the back.  When I got them, I was disappointed in that they were not as big as advertised.  But, having bought them to be shipped from UK to USA, it is impractical to try to return them so I kept them.  I am guessing they are about 52 liters, but I later saw on SJS website that they changed their description to 48 liters from whatever the previous description was.

The trip that I bought the Carradry panniers for, that trip did not happen.  But every trip after that, I had to decide which to bring, the Carradry or Ortliebs.  I brought the Carradry on my Canada trip in 2019 so I could give them a try.

First photo, my Nomad Mk II with about the heaviest load I think I will ever carry.  Ortlieb Backrollers, Frontloaders, 31 liter Rack Pack, and an extra dry bag in front of the Rack Pack, plus handlebar bag and rain gear strapped on top of Frontrollers.

Second photo, my Nomad Mk II with the Carradry in back.

In both photos, my front rack has the front panniers roughly 10cm higher than standard low rider rack, so the front pannier height on my bike is not typical.

And there are other brands too.  I do not recall how big the cotton fabric rear Carradice Super C panniers are, but they are huge too.

[PH]

Do you really need the extra capacity?  Where are you going and what are you doing? Carry what you want of course, but for me about 60L capacity is more than enough on any tour where I can re-supply with food and water daily (And that's every tour I've done or am likely to) IMO 60L and up to 15kg is fine all on the rear, therefore saving the 2kg+ of a front rack and panniers.  I have done a couple of camping tours where I carried the luggage for two, for that I preferred to use a trailer.  I'm also planning some base camp touring, I'll use a trailer for that as well, though I won't be cycling far with it.

[martinf]

I have seen photos of those panniers, but have never heard from someone that actually owned them.  Wow.  They are huge.

So far I have resisted using them for cycling tours and holidays. Too much space encourages too much luggage.

They get used for the supermarket run, when I get as much stuff as possible so that I can go less often, currently about every 2 to 3 weeks. My wife gets fresh stuff nearly every day, she likes shopping but doesn't like carrying much so I get the heavy/bulky stuff that keeps for a while.

The other main use is to carry my equipment for an aquatic invertebrate survey I do as volunteer work on a nature reserve 18 kms from home. Bulky but relatively light stuff - waders, warm clothing, survey net, plastic sorting trays, holding buckets and the like. One 35L pannier for wet stuff, the other for "mostly" dry stuff, the two 15L front panniers for documents, food, bike clothing, dry rainwear, tools, camera, etc.

[WorldTourer]

Even the standard small front panniers on a lowrider rack are very limiting in terms of getting offroad onto rockier surfaces, as more and more camping cyclists are doing nowadays. Once I got the Nomad Mk3 fork with the three “Anything Cage” mounts on each side, I said goodbye to a lowrider rack and front panniers forever. Bags on fork cages fit a decent amount of gear (e.g. my tent on one side, and stove and fuel bottle on the other). Some things I would have previously put in a front pannier go instead into a frame bag: the Nomad frame triangle is quite generous.

So, for Thorn owners who have the Nomad Mk3, and either already have the bikepacking fork or would be willing to purchase it, consider if you want front panniers at all.

[ourclarioncall]

Do you really need the extra capacity?  Where are you going and what are you doing? Carry what you want of course, but for me about 60L capacity is more than enough on any tour where I can re-supply with food and water daily (And that's every tour I've done or am likely to) IMO 60L and up to 15kg is fine all on the rear, therefore saving the 2kg+ of a front rack and panniers.  I have done a couple of camping tours where I carried the luggage for two, for that I preferred to use a trailer.  I'm also planning some base camp touring, I'll use a trailer for that as well, though I won't be cycling far with it.

Near Aberdeen to John o Groats

I’ve no clue what I need 😁

I have no panniers but was thinking of getting 5. 2 for the front , 2 for the back and one of them rack packs that attach to the two at the back .

The rack pack would be for tent and other stuff

The reason for the two at the front was that I thought it was safest to have some weight at the front as the back might be too heavy ? Not sure if I’ve got that right

One thing I don’t like about my bike is the steering is very fast and twitchy , I wish it was a bit more stiff . Maybe I could tighten it up but I thought that was supposed to prematurely wear bearings or something. Not sure. Maybe it’s not tight enough but it feels safe and secure the way it is.

Maybe the front pannier would help the front wheel stop feeling so twitchy and more stable ? Or would it make it worse ? Hmm

I’m now not sure if I will camp, which means less stuff . I’m thinking of going nuts and doing it in two days. Through the night on main roads. Mostly .  A bit extreme but that’s my style , I like to push the boundaries of most things in life (with lots of research and wisdom of course )

I might change my mind and do it in 3 or 4.

I’m just working on a 10 week fitness plan and diet. Been working out and out jogging /cycling and feeling great.

I’m thinking of doing 2 rides a week. Monday and Tuesday. This would be a smaller version of my two day trip.

I would try and really push the mileage up each week then I have 5 full days each week for rest and recovery . I have to watch out for overtraining. I will probably ramp up my calorie intake to around maintenance. I’m doing about a 500 calorie a day deficit just now so I can drop a pound of fat a week but with everything I’m doing it might be best to eat big and focus on gaining strength and stamina .

Eating eggs, oats, pasta, Greek yoghurt , salad , avacado etc most days.

[ourclarioncall]

Even the standard small front panniers on a lowrider rack are very limiting in terms of getting offroad onto rockier surfaces, as more and more camping cyclists are doing nowadays. Once I got the Nomad Mk3 fork with the three “Anything Cage” mounts on each side, I said goodbye to a lowrider rack and front panniers forever. Bags on fork cages fit a decent amount of gear (e.g. my tent on one side, and stove and fuel bottle on the other). Some things I would have previously put in a front pannier go instead into a frame bag: the Nomad frame triangle is quite generous.

So, for Thorn owners who have the Nomad Mk3, and either already have the bikepacking fork or would be willing to purchase it, consider if you want front panniers at all.

Interesting. Just had a look online

[ourclarioncall]

The volume is not what matters, the weight in the panniers is.  That said, a bigger pannier is taller, you want to make sure your panniers are not so low to the ground that they could catch on the ground in a turn or snag  road debris, etc.

Most front racks have a weight rating.  Sometimes that rating is bogus because they want you to buy it, but the better companies have a reliable rating.

Cheers

Do you have a low rack on your nomad ? Was this a thorn preference to with lower racks over the higher ones ?

[ourclarioncall]

Wondering if safe or wise to use 40L ortlieb panniers instead of the small 25L I see most folk using on the front rack ? I have a lower rack on a Thorn bike .

My solo camping setup is Ortlieb Bike Packer Plus 40L rear panniers with added pockets on the rear rack, Ortlieb Sport Packer Plus 30L front panniers on the low-loader front rack. Plus stuff strapped to the rear rack if necessary. This is plenty enough volume for me in France and Spain, I don't do desert crossings in remote places where you need to carry lots of food and water. If I need extra water for overnight wild camping I have an Ortlieb water pouch that I can strap to the rear rack.

For shopping or transport I use Ortlieb Back Roller Pro Plus 70L rear panniers and (usually) Ortlieb Sport Packer Plus 30L front panniers. If I need more space than that I generally use my big trailer, which is good for bulky or very heavy stuff.

I occasionally use the combination of 70L rear panniers with 40L rear panniers on a low-loader Thorn front rack, but only for transport of light but fairly bulky stuff, never needed that much space for touring.

As George says, one possible issue is ground clearance, IMO mainly a problem if going off-road.

Yeah saw those big 70L ones. I’ve never any ortlieb panniers in real life so unsure how long they are

The smallest 25L ones look a bit too small . But then again , as something else , more space invites more stuff you probably don’t need, and with a bit of packing skills you could probably cram a lot into a small space

I did think about getting 25L ones for front and back and a 24L rack pack . Or 40L for front and back and slightly bigger rack pack . Think it’s 32L? Can’t remember

[in4]

40L on a front rack would be very questionable to me. What kind of weight might you end up with and I imagine steering would need to be power assisted. That’s a no from me. I’ve Carradice Super C on my rear rack and they’re 54 litres. Sports rollers on the front and an Ortlieb 🐑 bag!

[Ph.]

I tried 40L on Thorn front rack once, back in my days of touring with a child in a seat taking up the back rack. They touched the road on a couple of corners! I went back to 30L bikepacker panniers after this, which have only ever been a problem on deeply rutted off road tracks.

Adding some load to the front may help with twitchy steering, though for me just the addition of a bar bag is enough.

On my tandem I’m considering a platform rack up front, as I much prefer the handling off road with front panniers & just one rear roller on the top of the rear rack, but would like to get them out of the ruts.

Ph.

[mickeg]

The volume is not what matters, the weight in the panniers is.  That said, a bigger pannier is taller, you want to make sure your panniers are not so low to the ground that they could catch on the ground in a turn or snag  road debris, etc.

Most front racks have a weight rating.  Sometimes that rating is bogus because they want you to buy it, but the better companies have a reliable rating.

Cheers

Do you have a low rack on your nomad ? Was this a thorn preference to with lower racks over the higher ones ?

I built up my Nomad Mk II from the frame and fork, thus I ordered every part.  I do not recall why I did not order the Thorn rack, perhaps because I already owned a Tubus Ergo (now discontinued) rack and I might have planned to use that.  And that was a decade ago so now I do not recall if I ever tried the Ergo on the Nomad or not.

I tried a Tubus Tara on the Nomad and I was not able to adjust the horizontal bar to be even close to horizontal.

I ended up getting a rack that I was sure would be better than the drawing of it in the ad, it was not better.  And I had to make a brace for it because it was not very structurally sound.  But once I used it, I decided that I would keep it instead of continuing to look for another option.  The horizontal bar is not quite horizontal, but close enough.  And when I am off road, I like the higher pannier mounting on it.

The photo includes the extra bracing that I added to it.  The rack was only attached to the outside sides of the fork, I added a piece of metal to the inside side of the fork blades so that the rack would be less likely to bend if I crashed.

That said, I really think the best racks are the hoop type racks like the Tubus Tara or Ergo that has a hoop over the front wheel for extra structural integrity.  The rack on my Nomad lacks that but my Lynskey has a Tara and my Sherpa has an Ergo.  On this forum, someone a few months ago had a rack mount break off of a fork, I think that is less likely with a hoop type rack.

The Tara has minimal adjustability, I have seen several that have a horizontal bar that is far from horizontal.  But it looks good on my Lynskey that has a Surly LHT front fork.

First photo is my Nomad Mk II with the rack I have on it.  Second photo is my Lynskey with a LHT front fork and a Tubus Tara.