Longer lasting chain ?

[PH]

As I do quite a few miles on my Thorne Sterling (Rohloff) bik

... and not wanting to seem too much a pedant, there is no "e"

[swayzak]

As I do quite a few miles on my Thorne Sterling (Rohloff) bike, the chain needs changing at least once a year. I always replace with same chain the bike originally came with (ordered from SJS).

I know this isn't that frequent, but out of interest are there chains which wear out / stretch slower than others ?

Thanks

How do you decide your chain needs changing each year. Is it just by time on bike, by mileage, by measuring stretch or just by feel?

Ultimately, most wear of chain will come from use and chain care (or lack of). The total weight of rider/bike will play its role. A lighter rider will put less stress on chain than a heavier rider travelling at same speed over same terrain suggesting that all other things being equal that a lighter rider ought to get more mileage from a chain.

I just got 14,000km out of a Connex 808 on my Rohloff. Compared to a derailleur bike 2-3 times more than I ever got on one of my Shimano bikes.

I change when the chain is obviously stretched (visibly hanging loose) and I can't tighten it anymore by moving EBB.

The chain guard won't stop the chain stretching like this presumably.

Should one always be able to remove a link once the chain has reached this stage, to prolong the life of the chain  ?

Or will the stretched links be potentially damaging the rest of the drive train and so the chain best be changed ?

[PH]

Or will the stretched links be potentially damaging the rest of the drive train and so the chain best be changed ?

Without getting bogged down in semantics - there's a difference between wear and damage, you wouldn't call a well worn pair of shoes damaged.
The pins in the chain are the fastest wearing part of the drivetrain, from the day it's all new they're wearing away and this in turn will wear the other components to match.
Your options are:
Change the chain before the wear on the sprocket is such that a new chain won't sit properly on it.
Or
Like your favorite shoes, keep them as a pair till they're properly worn out.

It is a choice, I've said which I'd choose, but I'm not saying anyone choosing the other is wrong.  What I would say is that somewhere between the two, letting a sprocket wear so that a new chain won't work, but not getting the full wear possible from it, is the worst of both.

[JohnR]

This isn't a given!
Rohloff Sprocket £20, Thorn Chainring £45, X8 chain £15?.
Sprocket and chainring are of course reversible and the chainring is likely to last two sprockets. So, half a sprocket and quarter of a chainring is £22.

That's a generous price for the X8 - cheaper if taken from a bulk roll, but still expensive compared to a Z1 narrow (currently £5.27 @ Wiggle for the brown version while the EPT version is just under £15).

The chain guard won't stop the chain stretching like this presumably.

Should one always be able to remove a link once the chain has reached this stage, to prolong the life of the chain  ?

Or will the stretched links be potentially damaging the rest of the drive train and so the chain best be changed ?

You most probably aren't physically stretching the chain. If you are, then one of the heavier duty e-bike chains would suit your needs better.

The normal cause of chain "stretch" is wear due to dirt getting inside. This wear increases the clearance on all the joints which results in the chain getting longer when it is under tension.

A full chainguard such as the Hebie Chainglider prevents most of the dirt from getting inside and thus considerably reduces the rate of wear of the joints on the chain. You've got the Rohloff hub and an EBB but you may need to change the chainring to suit one of the Chainglider sizes and also maximum acceptable chainring width.

[Andre Jute]

Swayzak, apologies if someone has already told you. You do you NOT decide that your chain is worn by eyeballing the sag on it, and you do NOT run a chain on a Rohloff as tight as expected on a derailleur installation.

Or, to put it positively, the right way to decide your chain is worn is by measurement with a tool (cheap), and a Rohloff chain should be mounted with at least 10mm of slack, measured by pulling the middle of the upper run of the chain up or pressing the middle of the lower run of the chain down. Why? Because Herr Rohloff wants it like that. 10mm on each run, both pressed towards each other, is perfectly acceptable, in fact, you'd be surprised at how slack a chain on a hub gearbox can be and still not fall off.

[swayzak]

Swayzak, apologies if someone has already told you. You do you NOT decide that your chain is worn by eyeballing the sag on it, and you do NOT run a chain on a Rohloff as tight as expected on a derailleur installation.

Or, to put it positively, the right way to decide your chain is worn is by measurement with a tool (cheap), and a Rohloff chain should be mounted with at least 10mm of slack, measured by pulling the middle of the upper run of the chain up or pressing the middle of the lower run of the chain down. Why? Because Herr Rohloff wants it like that. 10mm on each run, both pressed towards each other, is perfectly acceptable, in fact, you'd be surprised at how slack a chain on a hub gearbox can be and still not fall off.

Thanks

I've run it to the point where the chain did start to come off a few times (and EBB was at "longest" position).

Would it be usual to take a link out at this point or best to change chain ?

I gather that you are far more likely to damage rest of drive train with chain too tight rather than too loose... ?

[PH]

Would it be usual to take a link out at this point or best to change chain ?

I gather that you are far more likely to damage rest of drive train with chain too tight rather than too loose... ?

I'd just take a link out, re-join with a quick link. 
Also correct about not running the chain too tight, it just puts everything under unnecessary strain. 
The EBB has a little over one full link of adjustment, if it's at one extreme removing a link will take it almost all the way back to the other. 

[swayzak]

Would it be usual to take a link out at this point or best to change chain ?

I gather that you are far more likely to damage rest of drive train with chain too tight rather than too loose... ?

I'd just take a link out, re-join with a quick link. 
Also correct about not running the chain too tight, it just puts everything under unnecessary strain. 
The EBB has a little over one full link of adjustment, if it's at one extreme removing a link will take it almost all the way back to the other.

Thanks - that's really helpful.

And I assume you would normally only get one link's worth of shortening like this in the life of a chain ?

[steve216c]

I asked a similar question about chain shortening as I approached 10,000km on an elongated chain. I shortened it and ran just over 4000km more before renewing the chain and sprocket.

http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14115.msg106228#msg106228

[PH]

And I assume you would normally only get one link's worth of shortening like this in the life of a chain ?

I don't recall ever having removed links twice, but if it needed it and it looked like there was a good bit of life left I'd probably do so.

[Andre Jute]

I've run it to the point where the chain did start to come off a few times (and EBB was at "longest" position).

Would it be usual to take a link out at this point or best to change chain ?

If the chain is good, you take out a link and reset whatever chain length adjuster you have, EBB or sliding blocks in slots in the rear frame ends. On a well-designed frame like you're talking about the position of the adjuster(s) is not the final factor in the decision whether the chain needs replacing.

I gather that you are far more likely to damage rest of drive train with chain too tight rather than too loose... ?

Correct. I speculate that Herr Rohloff wants the chain slack rather than tight to protect the bearings of the axle, or possibly the loadings on gear interfaces. Whether it is in fact necessary, or is more German over-engineering of a class that has made Rohloff HGB longevity the envy of all other hub gearbox makers, is another story that you can think about when you have a firmer grip on the essentials, like when to throw off the chain on a Rohloff HGB. 

[HugoC]

Hello swayzak

My post about chains on a Rohloff eqippied bike (in my case a Raven Twin) may also provide some information you may / may not find useful. Removing a link and fitting a master link was not a complicated process.

http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13780.msg103323#msg103323

Now that I've fitted my second pair of chains (same brand as the originals) to the tandem, I'm finding that I'm getting much, much more mileage for the same amount of chain wear compared to the original shop fitted chains. I'm putting this down to two reasons: cycling in a less hostile environment (I previously used to live in a hot, arid climate where there could be high levels of atmospheric dust) and using a tungsten infused, wax type drip lubricant. The lube is relatively expensive but really does extend chain life (and therefore other drivetrain components) significantly. To get the most out of these types of lube, application should be on a new chain, which has been cleaned to remove all traces of factory applied lube.

The following website has a huge amount of test data on various lubes:

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/

Happy reading!

Regards,

HugoC

[swayzak]

Hello swayzak

My post about chains on a Rohloff eqippied bike (in my case a Raven Twin) may also provide some information you may / may not find useful. Removing a link and fitting a master link was not a complicated process.

http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13780.msg103323#msg103323

Now that I've fitted my second pair of chains (same brand as the originals) to the tandem, I'm finding that I'm getting much, much more mileage for the same amount of chain wear compared to the original shop fitted chains. I'm putting this down to two reasons: cycling in a less hostile environment (I previously used to live in a hot, arid climate where there could be high levels of atmospheric dust) and using a tungsten infused, wax type drip lubricant. The lube is relatively expensive but really does extend chain life (and therefore other drivetrain components) significantly. To get the most out of these types of lube, application should be on a new chain, which has been cleaned to remove all traces of factory applied lube.

The following website has a huge amount of test data on various lubes:

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/

Happy reading!

Regards,

HugoC

Thanks !

[swayzak]

So here are the front & rear rings (last replaced in 2015 - I think the only time in the 12 years I've had the bike).

Do these look worn & ready for changing ?

[Matt2matt2002]

Rear cog looks fine to me.
Front ring ... A maybe

Best

Matt