Thorn versus Shand

[mickeg]

Wow, what a a lot of replies very quickly.  Thank you all very much.

... ... ...

Judging by your comments Dan and others it looks like the Nomad may be too heavy duty for my aspirations.

Really helpful guys.  Thanks,  Andy (aka Navrig)

Yeah, the Nomad is a great bike, but if you do not need the capacity, as a roadie you might have buyers remorse very quickly due to the extra weight that comes with the weight capacity it offers.

Here is where the Nomad is really great, my trip to Iceland:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11917.0

Again, mine is a Mk II, not the very new Mk III, but I assume that the capacity and therefore the weight is similar between the two models.

It is very easy to put a dry bag on top of the rear rack between the panniers, does not need to be a cycling specific one.  But I prefer one that side loads instead of loading on the end.

[navrig]

Wow, what a a lot of replies very quickly.  Thank you all very much.

... ... ...

Judging by your comments Dan and others it looks like the Nomad may be too heavy duty for my aspirations.

Really helpful guys.  Thanks,  Andy (aka Navrig)

Yeah, the Nomad is a great bike, but if you do not need the capacity, as a roadie you might have buyers remorse very quickly due to the extra weight that comes with the weight capacity it offers.

Here is where the Nomad is really great, my trip to Iceland:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11917.0

Again, mine is a Mk II, not the very new Mk III, but I assume that the capacity and therefore the weight is similar between the two models.

It is very easy to put a dry bag on top of the rear rack between the panniers, does not need to be a cycling specific one.  But I prefer one that side loads instead of loading on the end.

Thanks for the link.  The photos are great as they allow me to see up close the frame joints etc.

I'll set aside a beer for a read at the weekend.

[navrig]

Perhaps I'm a little too far from your Scottish base but you're welcome to try my Raven Tour up here in Inverurie, Aberdeenshire.
Lighter than a Nomad but capable of quite heavy loads.
My trip last weekend was from Inverness to Lochcarron via Achnasheen. Camping x2 nights.
Tent and front panniers on the rear.
Keep me in mind when you return from Vietnam.

Best

Matt

Thanks Matt.  We are regular visitors Aberdeen so I may take you up on that offer.  We lived there around 1990 then we moved to Moray then Inverness.  I know the highlands very well having toured it a few times by motorbike.  We still holiday on the west coast regularly from Arran up to Gairloch and Ullapool.

[navrig]

If you’re not sure, maybe do some touring on whatever you can before making a big investment.

That's the plan.  If I can get the Trian I have here in Vietnam home I can use that.  It's fairly solid and has bosses for a rear and front rack.  I may have to look a different cassette if the routes are hilly.  I have time on my side.  I am here until end of this year at least and having been overseas for the last few years I can't pop home and then head in to Europe for a 3 month tour, assuming the current $hit show allows.

So I am targeting trial tours next year and the big one April - July 2023.

[StillOld]

Agree with all the wise comments above.... .....I have the Nomad Mk2 for heavy touring but treated myself to a Shand Daunder Rohloff last year for local runs and light touring. I have kitted it out bike packing style so can escape for 2-3 days no problem without using conventional luggage. The Shand is a beautiful bike and I was going to stick with another Thorn but the opportunity came up for a free trip north and in the end heart beat wallet.

I have to say though....the Nomad is like a comfortable arm chair when I take it out. Probably weighs the same as one though.

[bobs]

Having owned a Nomad before I went electric (Riese and Muller Supercharger) and having visited the Shand factory as I stay in Livingston my first choice would be a Shand. They are well worth the money.  The frame is better finished,  the various options are better and like Thorn they are great to deal with. For the record I've had 3 Thorns and have no complaints about any of them.

Bob

[navrig]

Having owned a Nomad before I went electric (Riese and Muller Supercharger) and having visited the Shand factory as I stay in Livingston my first choice would be a Shand. They are well worth the money.  The frame is better finished,  the various options are better and like Thorn they are great to deal with. For the record I've had 3 Thorns and have no complaints about any of them.

Bob

Thanks Bobs.  We are heading back to the UK sooner than expected.  I may take a trip to Livingston at some point.

[Milemuncher]

Hello Navrig, what a nice dilemma to have!  We (my wife and I) bought our Thorn Raven Sport Tours in August 2010 after a long and enjoyable chat with Andy Blance who sized and specced the bikes for us.  We are as delighted with them today as we were when they arrived in two huge boxes  - we here in Aberdeen. 

It is good to have a local dealer, especially where Rohloff hubs are concerned I think.  Not that they need much attention for sure.  I recently had to do some overhaul to sprockets, chains and chainrings and worried too about the internal cables - untouched in over 10 years.  I am not at all mechanical and kinda wished I could take them to a local dealer.  Finally I decided I would need to tackle them myself, and I am bound to say that the prompt, patient and exhaustive help I got from Thorn by email could not be faulted or bettered. 

So, if after-care comes into your consideration, rest assured that in my experience, Thorn cannot be faulted on that front, nor in my opinion, bettered.  I should say, I have no experience of Shand and their offerings do look super.

If Aberdeen does appear on your stops on the way to decision do give me a shout. I'll be pleased to show off our Black/Red and Blue/Silver beauties.   All the best.  :-)   

[Matt2matt2002]

Hello Navrig, what a nice dilemma to have!  We (my wife and I) bought our Thorn Raven Sport Tours in August 2010 after a long and enjoyable chat with Andy Blance who sized and specced the bikes for us.  We are as delighted with them today as we were when they arrived in two huge boxes  - we here in Aberdeen. 

It is good to have a local dealer, especially where Rohloff hubs are concerned I think.  Not that they need much attention for sure.  I recently had to do some overhaul to sprockets, chains and chainrings and worried too about the internal cables - untouched in over 10 years.  I am not at all mechanical and kinda wished I could take them to a local dealer.  Finally I decided I would need to tackle them myself, and I am bound to say that the prompt, patient and exhaustive help I got from Thorn by email could not be faulted or bettered. 

So, if after-care comes into your consideration, rest assured that in my experience, Thorn cannot be faulted on that front, nor in my opinion, bettered.  I should say, I have no experience of Shand and their offerings do look super.

If Aberdeen does appear on your stops on the way to decision do give me a shout. I'll be pleased to show off our Black/Red and Blue/Silver beauties.   All the best.  :-)   

I'm Aberdeenshire - so if passing please drop in to view and ride my Raven Tour.

[navrig]

After some deliberation, a wee seat on a friend's new Shand Stoater and a visit to the Shand factory I have ordered a Stoater.

I could not justify the Rohloff model on a needs and cost basis however I am very happy with all my Shimano derailleur kit over the years so I am sure it will serve me well on the Stoater.

I'll get it in 8 weeks or so.

Now for the luggage and lights research.

Thanks for all the advice.

[Danneaux]

All best wishes for a long and happy relationship and many wonderful Adventures together!

Best,

Dan.

[mickeg]

...
Now for the luggage and lights research.
....

If the lights might require a dynohub, building up a wheel with a dynohub does not cost very much as the only price difference is the cost of the dynohub minus the cost of the other hub that you don't buy.

But if you already own a front wheel, the cost of a dynohub is much more.  Even if you re-use the old rim and rim tape, there are the costs of the dynohub, spokes, nipples and probably a wheel build charge.

So, if there is any chance of wanting a dynohub later, decide now on the hub before a front wheel gets built for the new bike. 

You can run the hub with no lights attached if you buy the bike with a dynohub now and the lights later.

[navrig]

I have ordered a hub dynamo as part of the build so have that covered.

I'm just confused by the light options.

It's an SP hub.

[mickeg]

I have ordered a hub dynamo as part of the build so have that covered.

I'm just confused by the light options.

It's an SP hub.

There are lots of lights out there, depends in part on how much you want to spend.  I am in USA so I do not know what the prices are like where you are.  But they are getting better every year.

The B&M website has sample light beam patterns for their different lights.  Most of their lights, if you click on the light you can see a sample beam in a small photo.  If you right click on that sample beam and then select open in a new tab or window you can see a much larger example of that light beam.
https://www.bumm.de/en/products/dynamo-scheinwerfer.html

B&M also makes some lights for e-bikes, make sure you do not accidently order a light for one of those.

And choice depends somewhat on what you want the light for.  If for road riding, you want a light with a good wide flat beam that does not waste much light by shining it above the horizon.  But if you are mostly riding on gravel or up and down trails, a light with a flashlight circular beam might work better.

Supernova headlamps I believe have to be used with the same brand taillights, but I could be wrong on that.

Other brands, you can mix one headline brand with a different taillight.

Dyno powered taillights are always on, do not flash.  I often use flashing taillights in daytime, so I consider my battery powered taillight to be my primary taillight, and the dyno powered taillight to be secondary.  I think I went for about four years with a dyno powered headiamp before I even bought my first dyno powered taillight.

SP hub is not grounded to the fork, so you do not have to worry about making sure that you have the right wires connected to the right wires.  Shimano hubs are grounded to the fork, and if your headlamp is also grounded to the fork then you have to make sure your wires are connected correctly for it to work.

You wire the headlamp to the dynohub.  And you wire the taillight to the headlight, that way the headlight switch controls both front and back lights.  The taillights usually are not protected for overvoltage, they rely on the headlamp for that so you can damage your taillight if you wire it to the hub, that is another reason to wire it to the headlamp.

On a different forum I documented how I wired up my randonneuring bike lighting, that link is at:
https://www.bikeforums.net/electronics-lighting-gadgets/1228845-wiring-up-dyno-powered-lighting-system-usb-charger.html

Good luck figuring this stuff out.

[steve216c]

I have ordered a hub dynamo as part of the build so have that covered.

I'm just confused by the light options.

It's an SP hub.

Good choice on going for a hub dynamo. Like many of us converts, fit the hub and simply leave the lights in the on position day and night. You hardly notice the drag but increase your visibility and reduce the chance of being overlooked and struck by a car driver as a no brainer plus.

LED lamps in general are brighter than the traditional bulb predecessors, and pretty solid. I've had to resolder an LED rear connection after several years of abuse (always on and ridden daily in bumpy forest paths) and needed the occasional cabling repair- but those LEDs just continue to burn brightly and reliably despite thousands of hours use.

I cannot yet comment on SP hubs. I just build a new wheel around an SP hub, but have not yet mounted it on a bike. My other household dynamo hub bikes are mostly Shimano  with one SRAM and one no-name Chinese hub. I've only worn out one single hub bearings on the very first Shimano hub I purchased. But had approx  25,000 km of use out of it on my main bike of the day. Unfortunately the bearings on the hubs I have are not easily serviceable. But for many users, such a hub would last them a lifetime!

Good luck with the new bike.