Swapping Rohloff internals

[PH]

OK, just idly wondering.
In my Mercury I have a hub that's coming up to (Or may have just passed) the 100,000 mile mark, in it's forth frame having started life in a a 2003 Raven. It's running fine, leaks a bit more than I'd like, and the gear change is slicker than my other hubs which is also fine except if I haven't ridden it for a bit I keep shifting two at a time. It's not original having had two shells replaced after cracked flanges (One I contributed towards, though SJS were good enough to sort it for me even when Rohloff wouldn't) and later been modified to disc brake, all work carried out by SJS.
I also have a Rohloff in a folder, bought secondhand though I know it's history.  It'd been on some good adventures, including Tibet and a couple of visits to China, but hadn't done a huge mileage and I don't use it that much, less than 1,000 miles last year and it's unlikely to ever double that.
So the question - are all internals likely to be interchangeable? I know there's been some minor changes over the years, but the older hub was originally in  in shell No 024xxx and currently in 234483 and the folder is 151216, so the internals have already leap-frogged it.
I know I probably don't need to do this, but it makes sense to me to have the lesser used hub where it's going to get more use.
Thoughts?

[mickeg]

OK, just idly wondering.
...
I know I probably don't need to do this, but it makes sense to me to have the lesser used hub where it's going to get more use.
Thoughts?

I would not change a thing.

[Aleman]

Have a wheel builder swap the hubs between the wheels

[GaryRT]

100,000 miles! I can’t help with the question but I believe PH has personal experience of why Rohloff don’t recommend building a hub into a wheel size that differs from the original build.

[mickeg]

When I first read your post, I assumed the shells would stay in the wheels, only change out the internal gear unit.

But if you change the hubs (complete with shells) from one wheel to the other, add the reinforcing flange rings to the hubs that lack them.  That said, I think that Rohloff advises against changing hub shells from one rim size to another where the spokes would not be bedded in the flanges exactly the same way.

But I still think you should not change a thing.

[martinf]

Same advice as MickeG. I wouldn't bother changing until/unless something breaks.

I suspect the Rohloff shells are more fragile than the internals.

Up to a certain point, the more a hub gear is used, the better it runs. I'm still happy with my longest-serving Sturmey S5/2 on my old utility bike, over 52,000 kms so far. My experience of hub-gear failures is that they mostly occur in new hubs, and are due to manufacturing defects or incorrect assembly. The other significant cause of failure I have encountered is damage due to water entering the hub, not all that likely on a Rohloff or old Sturmey, where the slow oil leakage and regular oiling tends to oppose water entry.   

OK, 52,000 kms is a lot less than your Rohloff, but compared to an S5/2 the Rohloff is better engineered, has better seals, isn't vulnerable to shift cable misadjustments like most other hubs, and is designed to run for tens of thousands of kms/miles. I don't know what the expected service life of a Rohloff internal is.

If you are worried that your most-used hub could fail on tour, it might be worth asking Rohloff for a quote for a factory overhaul? It could even be cheaper than getting the internals swapped. 

[PH]

Hmmm... I'm going off the idea. 
The internals come out quite easily, just undo the Torx screws and it slides out like this image below, but that leaves the axle attached to the casing on the other side and as far as I can tell a full strip is required to separate them, if they were the same I'd leave that and swap, but one is black and the other silver!  I'm not contemplating rebuilding wheels, they're different sizes and I know that's not a good idea,
Not my image, comes from this informative website
https://matt.signorini.id.au/?p=198

[spoof]

I'd echo the ''do nothing'' PH, although a personal frustration given its out of sequence mileage vs the more recent serial number and desire to 'even out' the usage between the hubs.  The Kindernay XIV 14 speed hub with the swap cage comes to mind in that respect.
Then again its all trivial, there are very likely newer serial numbered Rohloffs out there with more mileage travelled on them than my own. Since all the work for the external shell changes has been carried out by store  (Rohloff or SJS), best to keep it that way such that all the internal data and paper trail on the hub is maintained and carried through to the next owner should you ever decide to part with one 

[Andre Jute]

I'd hate to have to explain to a prospective second or third owner that the hub serial number and the innards don't match*, and that therefore Rohloff may refuse service to the hub if it breaks. To me that would be an even bigger consideration than riding on a harlequin black and white hub.

Also, before I attempt to dismantle even an old or broken Rohloff, I'd contact Pete** down under, whose son took apart a Rohloff just to see what was inside, and put it together again successfully, and ask if the son would be willing to help by email with advance tips and if things go wrong by casting an eye over photographs.

*First thing an experienced classic, vintage or veteran car buyer looks for is matching engine, chassis and coachwork numbers. It's not too farfetched to believe elderly Rohloffs will soon be in that position.

** Was his forum handle "ilpadrone"?

[PH]

I'd hate to have to explain to a prospective second or third owner that the hub serial number and the innards don't match*, and that therefore Rohloff may refuse service to the hub if it breaks. To me that would be an even bigger consideration than riding on a harlequin black and white hub.

Also, before I attempt to dismantle even an old or broken Rohloff, I'd contact Pete** down under, whose son took apart a Rohloff just to see what was inside, and put it together again successfully, and ask if the son would be willing to help by email with advance tips and if things go wrong by casting an eye over photographs.

*First thing an experienced classic, vintage or veteran car buyer looks for is matching engine, chassis and coachwork numbers. It's not too farfetched to believe elderly Rohloffs will soon be in that position.

** Was his forum handle "ilpadrone"?

Some interesting points, I've never considered if the hub internals had serial numbers, I've never seen anything that says so, though that doesn't mean they haven't.  I'm a bit shocked by the notion that I might ever part with one, so any explanations will be someone else's problem!

[sudo]

Can you swap internals between hubs?
Yes, but the complexity of the task depends on:

• Do both Rohloff wheels have the same number of spokes? i.e. 32 & 32 or 36 & 36. If so, the hub caps have the same bolt pattern and can be swapped directly. However...
• Is it important that the colours of the hub & hub cap match? Particularly if the hubs are different colours.
• disk brakes? If one hub is disk converted but the other isn't you may need to swap the hub caps, otherwise you won't have brakes on the disk braked bicycle.

If you would also need to swap the hub caps for any of these reasons, well it is technically possible. You are correct that one would need to strip down the internal mechanism to the axle to remove the hub cap, although at least that's fairly straightforward. More challenging, the hub cap is a press/interference fit onto the axle. Swapping it means removing the gear mech (external or internal), and use a hammer and shaped presses to separate the hub cap from the axle (taking care not to lose a pin in the axle, or insert said pin the wrong way round).

If you really want to remove the hub cap, I've drafted some parts in CAD (suitable for 3D printing in plastic) to assist. Happy to share them

Okay, but should you swap internals?
If you don't have to remove the hub cap, it's not so complex, but you still need to unscrew the sprocket or splined carrier, and undo all the hub cap bolts, and possibly replace the paper gasket if you're unlucky enough to tear it.

And after all, even a heavily used hub should last for decades, so it will take a long time to wear it out. Perhaps consider swapping them once the heavy use one is worn out?

...
Also, before I attempt to dismantle even an old or broken Rohloff, I'd contact Pete** down under, whose son took apart a Rohloff just to see what was inside, and put it together again successfully, and ask if the son would be willing to help by email with advance tips and if things go wrong by casting an eye over photographs.

Well, there you go, I found you first; but you can still email 

[Andre Jute]

...
Also, before I attempt to dismantle even an old or broken Rohloff, I'd contact Pete** down under, whose son took apart a Rohloff just to see what was inside, and put it together again successfully, and ask if the son would be willing to help by email with advance tips and if things go wrong by casting an eye over photographs.

Well, there you go, I found you first; but you can still email 

Ha! What goes round comes round. I just opened the thread to post your blog address, sent to me offlist, and here you are.

Sudo's Rohloff teardown photo essay:
https://matt.signorini.id.au/?p=198

[PH]

Can you swap internals between hubs?
Yes, but the complexity of the task depends on:

Thanks. 
I've gone off the idea! Partly because I'd have to change the hub cap, one is polished silver the other black.  But mostly the confidence that it will probably outlive me anyway.