Author Topic: Pros and Cons of pendix  (Read 3956 times)

ourclarioncall

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Pros and Cons of pendix
« on: March 25, 2021, 10:29:16 pm »
Hoping to get a nomad later this year

But wondering if I will regret not getting the pendix option (if they will fit one )

Like this

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/bikes/thorn-nomad-565l-with-pendix-motor-ex-test/


I’m thinking there may be times in the middle of nowhere if I’m tired and fatigued or want to save time etc , an electric boost might come in handy

But I have so many questions

What if after a while I don’t like it?
Will having an electric thingy get me in trouble with the police in different country’s ? As they may have laws for or against it being electric powered

in4

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Re: Pros and Cons of pendix
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2021, 08:14:12 am »
Reading the ad’the pendix  is retro fitted so perhaps it’s possible to remove it thus giving you options according where you wish to ride. Check with SJS first though. Either way you get a Nomad to enjoy.

PH

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Re: Pros and Cons of pendix
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2021, 11:33:21 am »
The Pendix is an add on kit, so there'd be no reason to regret it as it could simply be added later.
But, if I was looking for an E-bike I'd probably choose one that had been designed that way from the ground up, plus if you have assist, there's arguably less need for a Rohloff. I probably do less than 5% of my riding in the lowest three gears, it wouldn't need much E-assist before I could do away with them altogether.

ourclarioncall

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Re: Pros and Cons of pendix
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2021, 02:14:51 pm »
Thanks guys

So is there a difference between an assist and an actual electric bike ?

Sorry , I’m clueless !

Is the assist just giving you a little help ? Whereas a proper electic bike could really blast you along for a good distance ?

Is pendix a good make ?

PH

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Re: Pros and Cons of pendix
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2021, 06:23:02 pm »
Thanks guys

So is there a difference between an assist and an actual electric bike ?

Sorry , I’m clueless !

Is the assist just giving you a little help ? Whereas a proper electic bike could really blast you along for a good distance ?

Is pendix a good make ?
You might be better asking these questions on one of the specific E-bike forums, but basically:
Nearly all those E-bikes you see will be assist only, the motor only assists while you're pedalling. With a 15.5mph cut off, so no assistance above that.  Lots of variables to determine how much assistance you get within those parameters. 
There are faster E-bikes and some you don't need to pedal, but the UK regulations class these as mopeds, in which case you may as well get a full electric motorbike.  There is of course also a lot of illegality, you can go and buy a high powered eclectic mountain bike intended for off road and no one is policing their use on road, or there's no shortage of illegal to use kits, or gizmos to alter the setting on a legal E-bike.

PH

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Re: Pros and Cons of pendix
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2021, 06:57:14 pm »
Re the Pendix, there was a short thread on it last year
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13734.msg102103#msg102103

In which I wrote:
Quote
've had a test ride on an Airnimal with one, it's certainly a neat and well made looking unit, but I wasn't impressed. Compared to several purpose made E-bikes with mid motors I've tried, Bosch and Shimano, it wasn't as smooth or as powerful, despite costing almost as much as some complete bikes. Although putting all the controls in with the battery cuts down on the wiring, it also means that you're paying for this stuff twice if you double up on batteries.  And having the control on the battery is far less convenient than on the handlebars.
I'm still toying with the idea of getting an E-bike or maybe an electric motorbike for work, but this was quickly crossed off the shortlist.  I'm quite surprised Thorn have gone with it, I see the appeal of converting a bike you know and like, but starting from scratch with a pocketful of cash I think you could do a lot better.
Having said that, the ex demo bike in your link looks decent value compared to what the bike and kit would cost separately.

Andre Jute

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Re: Pros and Cons of pendix
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2021, 12:02:37 am »
It sounds to me like you're planning to pedal a very substantial weight around with you all day, and then in the evening when you're tired, run the motor up a last few hills. That's a fast way to get so fed up with the motor that you throw it off. Motor and battery together make up a lot of dead weight to haul around to use very briefly.

I've had two motors over a period of ten years or so, and if I'd started with your outlook I'd have chucked in cycling after a couple of months. First of all, none of the motors I know of are yet suitable for a tour of any distance or length of time; the required battery will be too large and too heavy.

I live in very hilly country and the single flat road in and out of town is lethal with too much traffic for its size, so I cycle on the hilly lanes, and the motor is switched on all the time though its input may be nil on the flat and the downhill. Then on any hill I may want an increasing amount of assistance, nothing at the bottom, more near the top than at the bottom, and this is if one is not trying to keep up speed but merely to get over the top of the hill. If you want to keep up speed, greater increase of power is required from the motor, which also has implications for the size and therefore weight of battery you have to carry.

Now, if this sounds to you like a UK-legal motor and software setup won't do it, you're right. A UK strictly legal pedelec (mark the word, it's a legal definition) is entire perverse to a commuting or touring cyclist's purposes, and ditto for a utility cyclist who may want more power when he's carrying a load of groceries. The pedelec is limited in power (this isn't as big a deal as it sounds -- it's the accompanying regulations that are perverse), so you'd think that you want to arrange the available power curve to place the power where it will do the cyclist most good. But apparently the legislators can't think. The law (or regulations formulated to the meet the EU's hostile law -- the effect is the same) requires a pedelec to apply power in strict proportion to the cyclist's input. But on a hill, or with a loaded bike, you want a greater proportion of input from the motor than you need in easy riding.

So pedelec software won't cut it even in the limited circumstances for which an electric pedelec is currently workable. For instance, you may discover a throttle, which lets you input more power when necessary, is outlawed either locally or nationally. In that case, unless you are old and so decrepit you ride only on the flat and without much load, the electrified bicycle is useless to you. Next consideration: many of these Chinese aftermarket electric systems (motor, battery, controls, software) let you switch between programmes for varying the input parameters and occasions on the fly, so that you get increasing assistance in proportion to your legs' input proving inadequate to the power required, exactly the opposite of the pedelec "assistance". Again, anything that gives you a choice beyond the perverse pedelec "assistance" is banned some places. A popular setup by 8FUN/Bafang can be made very tolerable even with the legal motor by considering the programmes built into the control set as nine further gears on top of a Rohloff's fourteen gears. That is, if you had the foresight to buy the kit from a dealer who gives you the software uncrippled -- many British dealers prissily consider themselves extensions of the police, and order the kit crippled by the factory or wholesalers, or cripple it themselves.

I don't know anything about the Pendix, but if it is aimed at keeping German OEM's within the German pedelec law, you either need a sympathetic builder who will deliver a liberated motor, or you want to buy a Bafang BB kit and controls from a supplier to British off-roaders.

If you decide to go ahead, before you start shopping, return here for an unavoidable mini-lecture on choosing your motor by its torque output, not its Watt rating, and scaling the accompanying battery by its coulombs -- it matters for the instantaneous delivery of usable power rather than pie-in-the-sky marketing BS. Also for links to the right dealers.

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You can apparently tour safely in Ireland with even an humongous motor. I met a fellow on the road who was riding a 750W electrified bike, who told me he asked the police, who told him that as long as he behaved on the road (he was bicycling because he lost his license for drunk driving, on which the police are very strict here) there was no limit on the size of his electric motor. But, lest you think I'm a maniac, I don't consider 750W or even 500W necessary for a cyclist. Even in my very hilly countryside, with my painting gear loaded, including a full-size wooden easel, 350W is adequate, given only that I have access to a throttle or the hidden programmes (neither of which are banned here, according to the fellow I met on the road) or both, and a very substantial battery so I don't burn out the motor when it chokes on being fed too few instantaneous "torques", to channel Jeremy Clarkson. Under the same load on the same lanes, with a battery scaled to save weight (!), I burned out a 250W motor in around 3500km, but I just applied the knowledge I gained and bought a bigger motor of the same make plus a suitably sized battery because I always considered the first setup a test to establish parameters.
 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2021, 01:46:36 am by Andre Jute »

ourclarioncall

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Re: Pros and Cons of pendix
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2021, 01:16:20 am »
Thanks again guys , really appreciate the responses

Will reread them again before I reply