Kevin Sayles 2nd hand Thorn EXP Project

[martinf]

I used a hacksaw to cut, holding the stays in a bench vice. Then files to smooth and round off the cut edges. I also bent the stays to fit the mountings better, again using the bench vice and a large adjustable spanner.

If you have a bench (or old table or similar) one or two C-clamps might work as a substitute for the bench vise, or you could take the stays to a friend or acquaintance who has a bench vise.

But I second John's advice, my bench vice was one of the first tools I bought when I first set up home 40 years ago, it has been extremely useful for all kinds of things, not just bicycles.

[leftpoole]

Hello,
Yes indeed a Record or similar brand bench vise costs not a great deal and over a short time will recoup its worth.
Best to all,
John

[John Saxby]

'Kay, Phil, here you go:

Below, a photo of my Record 4" No. 3 vise, Made in England.  (!!)  It has a rotating base -- the long bolt head protruding from the base of the vise, immediately below the "Record" name, is one of two which fix or release the vise.

(Full disclosure: Having recommended a vise with rotating base, and indeed having purchased one, I have to confess I've never used this feature.)

Look at the slightly open jaws, and facing you, is one of my pair of magnetic work protectors. These items have a band of ~1/8" thick ribbed red dense-but-slightly-soft rubber which grips the work.  The jaws of the vise are knurled -- OK for anything where it doesn't matter if the surface is marred, but not what you want for holding a steel or alloy bike rack.

What will you use vise and magnetic inserts for?  Well, just last week I had to cut a couple of 2" sections of 3/4" x 3/4" angle alloy, and then drill each with 4 holes to accept wood screws. The two bits of angle alloy were fastened to two old but quite lovely kitchen-counter bar stools, whose legs and seats were flexing far too much.

I could not have done this repair without the item you are looking at. (Plus a good hacksaw and 3/8" electric drill, of course.)

Why would I repair two old wooden bar stools?  Well, there's a story here that Andre will enjoy if he's reading this:  We were leaving South Africa in 2006, after spending three years in Pretoria, where my wife was working at the Canadian High Commission. Not far from her office was a small woodworking operation, which advertised "Furniture Made from Antique Oregon Pine".  I asked the owner where he got his wood. He said--get this--that his wood came from the ceilings and floors of old houses in Jo'burg and the wider Rand which were now being knocked down.  They had been the first houses built in the area after the goldmines were established in the 1880s -- that is, in the 1890s.  I also asked him about the "Oregon Pine", because I had noticed that the grain is more like a northern pine, denser than the southern pine grown in places like South Africa or Georgia and the Carolinas in the U.S.  He said he thought it had come from Oregon.  Could be--that pine in native to the Pacific NW of North America, though it seems a long way to ship it, across the Pacific & Indian Oceans...  In any event, we bought four chairs and three cabinets, and they grace our kitchen, dining room, and living room.  And my vise keeps 'em there.

Now, to help you with rough-and-ready repairs, take a look at the nice flat surface of the moving body of the vise, just above the "Made in England" casting:  I use this as an anvil to hammer flat anything that's fairly thin and needs to be, well, flattened. For this I have a very useful 2-lb bench sledge hammer.

Good luck, eh?

Cheers,  John

[onmybike]

I asked the owner where he got his wood. He said--get this--that his wood came from the ceilings and floors of old houses in Jo'burg and the wider Rand which were now being knocked down.  They had been the first houses built in the area after the goldmines were established in the 1880s -- that is, in the 1890s.  I also asked him about the "Oregon Pine", because I had noticed that the grain is more like a northern pine, denser than the southern pine grown in places like South Africa or Georgia and the Carolinas in the U.S.  He said he thought it had come from Oregon. 

John, in the Australian goldrush in the 1850s pre-fab housing was a common thing and flat pack dwellings were shipped to Oz from all over the British Empire but also from the US. The British houses were frequently made from tin and iron components - products of the industrial revolution. The US houses were made of west coast timbers and (I think) either shipped as preassembled walls etc, or simply as pre-cut and labeled timber planks. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the later South African gold rush followed a similar pattern and used the same supply chains.

Syd

Edit: Just found a nice story on gold rush kit homes here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-03/tiny-kit-homes-helped-solve-melbourne-gold-rush-housing-crisis/9680898

[John Saxby]

Thanks, Syd -- hugely interesting detail of early globalisation!  The imperatives of gold generate all sorts of innovation, eh?  Good to know that the three Melbourne dwellings have been preserved.

I had thought that I might have been looking, not at west-coast pine, but pine from the Ottawa Valley or New Brunswick. Both of those sources are relatively close to SA, and the Ottawa Valley was past its peak, but still producing a lot of timber.  I expect that the knowledge of the supply chains from the mid-19th century would have survived, as you say, and the west-coast pine was still there.

The house we live in in Ottawa was built in 1907, originally a frame (timber) house, later covered with brick.  It's quite modest, but there's a lot of BC fir in its interior construction. That lumber is highly prized today because it's comparatively scarce. A friend who's a builder reckons that whoever built our house probably bought a load cheap from BC.

A nice detail in our SA furniture is the old rectangular nailholes, all filled as part of the reclamation process, but still visible.

Cheers,  John

[Philly69]

I purchased a large Kevin Sayles  2nd hand Thorn EXP frame last year for £120 including postage. It comes with the original drop handlebars and it's a Prototype model from around 2000. I was informed by the seller that it belonged to the now sadly deceased Audax cyclist David Lewis http://www.ukcyclist.co.uk/david-lewis

David mentions in the website link, buying 2 Exp's: "I had bought two Expedition Touring bikes from Thorn Cycles, took them to Sri Lanka with me and Anne & I undertook a three week bike tour of as much as the island as was accessible at that time." A strange coincidence is that my mate bought Anne's Exp off her. What are the chances of that??

Anyway, the bike needs a bit of TLC. I'm planning on keeping the frame paint job as is and just sanding down the flaky paint/rust spots and repainting with enamel paint. I want to replace the handlebars with straight one's which will mean changing the brake levers, grips and shifters. Any recommendations here?

I've already removed the BB which had a lot of play in it. I'll keep the XT crankset + derailleurs although I'll probably upgrade the jockey wheels and chainrings and get a new chain and cassette.

I'm debating whether to replace the forks with originals as the one's on it at the moments aren't original. Judging by the fact that there's a Mavic 317 on the front instead of the Sunrim Rhyno it came with originally, I suspect the bike has been in a crash. I've checked the head tube and there doesn't seem to be any damage to the welds.

I'll keep the SKS mudguards which are in OK condition except for a bit of a crack on the rear one.

The idea is to keep the bike looking a bit tatty so as to deter thieves, as I already own a mint condition Thorn Raven Tour. Any thoughts on this little project welcome.

[Philly69]

So here is my upgraded Thorn Exp. As the original paintwork had failed around the chain stays and rear wheel drop outs I decided to have the frame shotblasted and powder coated in the original black colour.
It may have been nice to have restored it with original parts but I think they would've been hard to source considering the bike was produced over 20 years ago in 2000. As it was designed as an expedition tourer I thought I'd remain faithful to this and decided to upgrade a lot of components after reading Tom’s Expedition Bike blog on https://tomsbiketrip.com/how-to-build-the-ultimate-round-the-world-expedition-touring-bike/

Here is most of the original kit list that came with the bike (certain parts were too worn to see what they were originally):

Headset: Orbit xlII Headset Threadless headset
Stem: FSA Stem
Shifters: Shimano Bar End Shifters
Wheels: The rear wheel is a Sun Rhyno on Shimano Deore XT Hb-m750 32 Hole Hub
The front wheel is a Mavic 317 on Shimano Deore XT Hb-m750 32 Hole Hub
Crankset: Shimano Deore Crankset
Cassette: Shimano 8 Speed
Derailleurs: Shimano XT Front
Shimano XT Rear
Rear Rack: Blackburn
Mudguards: SKS Chromoplastic Mudguards 55mm
Saddle: Velo Plush seat
Brakes: Suntour XC Brakes
Forks: Unicrown

Here is the kit list/what I had done in my upgrade:

Original Kevin Sayles built frame Sandblasted, powder coated and Bottom Bracket retap
Headset: FSA Headset Orbit XLII
Stem: FSA Stem (kept the original but may upgrade to a longer/adjustable stem)
Shifters: Shimano Bar End Shifters on Jtek Special Thumb Shifter Brackets
Wheels: The rear wheel is a Sun Rhyno on Shimano Deore XT Hb-m750 32 Hole Hub
The front wheel is a Mavic 317 on Shimano Deore XT Hb-m750 32 Hole Hub (kept original’s but both have slight buckle so will get them trued)
Tyres: Schwalbe Marathon Mondial x 2      
Inner tubes: Schwalbe SV13 Presta Tube X 2
Crankset: Shimano FC-M361, 170-175mm, 22-32-42T Chainset
Pedals: Shimano PD-A530 Sport Dual-Sided Pedal
Cassette: Cassette Shimano Acera HG41 8 Speed
Chain: KMC X8 8 Speed
Derailleurs: Shimano XT Front (kept original)
Shimano Alivio T4000 Long Cage Rear
Rear Rack: Will buy a Tubus logo rear rack
Mudguards: SKS Chromoplastic Mudguards 55mm (new replacement as old one's were damaged)
Saddle: Velo Plush seat
Brakes: Suntour XC Brakes (ordered new replacements for £4.99 a set from SJS Cycles and work great)
Tektro Power Hanger required for front brakes which are reversed on the Thorn Mk2 Forks
Forks: 26 inch Thorn Nomad Mk2 Steel Fork
New Gear + Brake cables
Bottom Bracket: Shimano BBUN55 Square Taper
Brake Levers: Shimano Deore T610 Trekking V-Brake Levers
Handlebar: M Part Flat Bar 25.4 mm
Grips: Ergon Gp3 Comfort Grips
Saddle: Brooks B17 Saddle
Kickstand: Pletscher Multi Zoom Rear Kickstand (yet to fit but may buy Click stand instead)

The whole project came to just shy of £700 which aint bad for an original Kevin Sayles frame with (mostly) new components. I've taken it for a ride it feels solid and dependable and a lot nippier than my Rohloff equipped Thorn Raven Tour. There are few things to iron out. Both wheels need truing as there's a slight buckle in both. I will replace the stem for one with a steeper angle for a more upright riding position similar to what I have on my Thorn Raven. The front brake needs tweaking as it's a bit of a skill to get the Tektro cable hanger and Suntour XC brakes to work smoothly. All in all a lovely project to work on and hopefully I will be taking it on some tours as soon as COVID restrictions allow.

[UKTony]

Well done! Looks like it was a very satisfying project.
I’ll look out for it when situation permits more  “Carrying on up the Valleys”. Our full group’s last ride was a week before lockdown #1 - a 44 mile loop starting and finishing at Fourteen Locks via Caerphilly and Pontypridd, lunching at the Glantaff Inn and returning via Treharris and the Sirhowy Valley. Just hoping that the Glantaff Inn will survive the pandemic and get back in business before too long.
T.

[energyman]

Beautiful !!

[Philly69]

Thanks chaps. Yes it was a joy to build it up from scratch. Great for touring/Sustrans routes. Your route sounds great. Which cycling club are you in Tony?

[John Saxby]

Nice bike, Philly!  Super value for 700 quid, too!  Fingers crossed for touring in the not-too-distant future.

Cheers,  John

[jeweller220]

Hi Philly69,
 I seem have bought pretty much the same bike as you did; with the same aesthetic problem i.e. the 'wrong' fork (see images attached). How did it pan out in your renovation? (Ignore my question - I've found my way now LOL!)

Paul

[jeweller220]

Philly, contributions to my thread asking for help identifying my bike persuade me that your original fork was, well, original (even if I do still think the Nomad style is nicer).

[PH]

Philly, contributions to my thread asking for help identifying my bike persuade me that your original fork was, well, original (even if I do still think the Nomad style is nicer).

No, Philly's fork wasn't original, the unicrown design wasn't used on these bikes.
Make no mistake, it is a quality fork on your new bike.

[leftpoole]

Philly, contributions to my thread asking for help identifying my bike persuade me that your original fork was, well, original (even if I do still think the Nomad style is nicer).

No, Philly's fork wasn't original, the unicrown design wasn't used on these bikes.
Make no mistake, it is a quality fork on your new bike.

Seconded!