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Complexities in touring

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John Saxby:
I'm learning about the limits created by the A-words, age & arthritis...So, yes, daily mileage shrinks, for sure, though that's OK, as you see more, have more time & space for conversations, etc.

As for accommodation, "it depends" -- On my Rhine/Danube ride a few years ago, I was surprised & delighted by the range of accommodations available, though those are two of the most heavily travelled cycle routes in Europe.  Where I live in Eastern Ontario, the number of inexpensive motels has declined dramatically since the financial crisis in 2008/09, and I've seen the same thing happening elsewhere in Ontario and in parts of the northeastern US as well. Not only motels, of course, but rural and small-town businesses more generally, cafés and the like.

I still enjoy camping (though fewer of my age-mates do!) and I've found that, because of the reduced hard accommodation in the rural areas of Ontario/Qué/Atlantic Canada, it helps greatly to scan options well in advance.  Not necessarily to make bookings, because that has its own problems--"gotta get there, gotta keep going"--but at least to give me a couple of possibilities for the night.  (Others do wild camping, but I like a shower at the end of the day, and I usually find myself riding through lake-and-river country where there's lots of water around, but also, where the access to the waterfront has been gobbled up by cottages, resorts, etc.)

Folders on trains and buses sounds like a pretty good setup, and one I envy.  Trains are very limited in our primitive Canajan network, and even buses are becoming more so -- Greyhound just cancelled most of its western routes :(

Andre Jute:
Gentlemen, maybe alongside the Rhine or the Danube or the Loire there is convenient electric bicycle touring from powerpoint to powerpoint. But I still don't see another 30 miles on an electric bike when accommodation doesn't pan out on a day when you've perhaps already used even a little of a battery for 30 miles. A battery that can carry you 60 miles will very likely weigh as much as a loaded tourer's gear. Even a battery to carry you 30 miles weighs at least 7 or 8 pounds, very likely more. And remember, the cyclist, who may already be all in, is assumed to produce most of the effort, not the battery.

We've never actually determined how far a battery of xAh will carry a cyclist and camping or cycling holiday gear, among other reasons because those of us with electric bikes are far too sensible to run the batteries totally flat, which will wreck a LiPo battery in very short order.

But I've actually taken some ebike very-mini tours, in a country, Ireland, with an abundance of high quality bed and breakfast places, complete with government supervision and a bookings book available from any tourist bureau and a lot of news agents. But I've never written about those tours here because by the standards prevailing here, they're mickey mouse efforts. I call them Andre's World Tours of his Little Patch of the Back Country of West Cork. Some of them are within a radius of 30 miles, though the tour might stretch out to three days 60 or 70 miles because we investigate all the back roads, and stay off the main and secondary roads, which in main are dangerous and unpleasant. However, the country buses will take you and your bike, so on one tour to a town 60 miles away, we rode to an intersection with the main road 15 miles away, took the bus down the main drag to almost within sight of the town where we would stay that day, then took off on a trip around a peninsula, total days's journey 40 miles and some change; the point was that we knew all these roads, and how much they draw from the battery. This isn't what Tyreon is describing at all... For a start, my luggage is a bottle of water, a block of Bourneville chocolate, a credit card, a few sheets torn out of a bed and breakfast book, and a couple of pairs of clean underpants -- everything else I just buy and, since I take a shower every evening, I don't care if the over-sensitive think I sniff or the collar of my shirt isn't pristine, because I'm never away from home more than three days. Note further that I know all these small towns, and have the phone numbers of their local taxis on my phone, and that the landladies of the B&Bs I've stayed with before in an emergency will come pick me up. I don't even carry a spare tube; my entire tool kit weighs 68gr. I'm the absolute paradigm of the credit card tourer.

In short, ebike touring is possible if you're in civilization, if you know the area because you've cycled there before, if you aren't on a budget, if you're willing and able to plan ahead, if you're not ambitious at all (or your cycling companies have to be considered), and if there are plenty of alternative solutions if your plans fall through (never happened to me, but I'm a belt and braces man). Any other circumstances short of proper bike infrastructure and I suspect ebike touring could easily become a rod for your own back. I don't fancy schlepping a flat battery around when I'm already wiped by distance or heat or mishap.

I'm sorry to say, I think your enthusiasm for ebike touring is premature. It'll happen, eventually, but the time isn't here yet.

I'll start another thread so that we can share experience about the distance an ebike battery can reasonably be expected to carry you.

tyreon:
E biking: To take it up is one big commitment,for me anyway. I like the concept,but once the decision is made I think I have crossed a line. I just don't think I can cross it now. Its said to be growing in Europe(and GB),but the weight factor and possible complications I envisage make it a no...for the time being.


Pics? If and when I get time or can get the know-how how to upload them. My life isn't that busy but the learning of techno stuff(and which I might only use x2)frustrates me.


My wife and I went from Alicante,Elche,Almansa,Albacete,Ceunca,Teural,Zaragoza,Gandesa,Tortosa,Valancia...back to Alicante. We cycled and train and train hopped. I cant remember exactly but some of the larger no-bike roads have a secondary road that runs alongside them. Youre detached from the traffic and often its not visible. The roads are well maintained. What draws us to some of these roads is tha they will follow routes that cross other pathways which have towns...which have pensions...which will have bus services or railways...that can take you on should your fitness fail or the weather turn nasty. Nevertheless,on the route we took pensionshostelsw aren't in abundance and it seems sometimes if you haven't booked ahead you can fall flat. No trouble when you're below 45,but somewhat older and with other 'luggage',its just not what I want these days.


I'm not selling folder touring(I'd rather go full frame),but it worked out damn fine. May I relate one of my most gifted moments when I arrived at Albacete(?)to get on the Spanish equivalent of their TGV train. Knowing the rules and regs I was worried. With no spoken communication between the ticket chap and ourselves the chap said our bikes would not be allowed on the train. I said they folded. He wanted to see them folded. I folded them. Not enough he said. I folded them completely. He said they had to be covered. I covered them with the plastic sheeting we covered them on our flight over. Not enough. He said he wanted me to put them on top of his desk at shoulder height. I did so. And with that we bought our tickets on for the next station.


We didn't have trouble again. The bikes went on trains unfolded or folded and it the backs of mini buses. In fact,the Spanish authorities seemed to be pretty relaxed about carrying bikes on public transport...and which,thru experience,most times can stress me out.


I expect I did longer bike distances back when. Now slower,I aim to get somewhere between 25 - 40 miles in a Spanish day depending upon terrain and heat(we don't cycle past 1pm). In the past I knew I could get to some place. Now,I'm not too sure and don't want to stress the marriage :)

FWIW I think there's more people on the road,by bike and car. More people have the time and $ to gad about...and want to. It puts strain on available accommodation.

By way of justifying my comments ;) was down in Devon/Cornwall some 4 years back. By car. Come 7pm looked for accommodation. All places completely booked for over 150 miles.Chose to sleep in the small car overnight. I guess there mitta bin a place for 200 GBP,but that's too much for me for 8hrs zzzzzzs. 

Mike Ayling:
Has anyone mentioned Air BnB?

I have never used one but this may be another avenue to explore.

The Australian Tax Office is taking a good look at these atm as some operators may be forgetting to include the net income therefrom in their tax returns!

Mike

John Saxby:

--- Quote ---Has anyone mentioned Air BnB?
--- End quote ---

Depends... we use it when visiting big & small cities, e.g., Toronto or Stratford, but I've not used it in cycle-touring.  Our daughter used it extensively when she lived in Europe betw 201 and 2015, but mainly for short stays of 3-4 days rather than overnights.

There's also the Warm Showers network--I know number of people who use that in North America & Europe, but I don't know much about it.

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