Technical > General Technical
Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
mickeg:
Some older Optimus stoves (111 model) could run on alcohol, possibly some of the Primus stoves too. But needed a different jet plus had a separate sleeve that was added to reduce airflow into the combustion area.
The jet size is used to control the air to fuel ratio. The heavier fuels like kerosene have smaller jets than are used for fuels like Coleman fuel. For example, my Omnifuel has a jet that is size 28 (I have no clue what the unit is, perhaps it is hundredths of a mm?) while the Coleman fuel jet is size 37 and an even larger jet at 45 for butane.
Alcohol has a larger jet than for Coleman fuel or kerosene for those few stoves that were designed to burn all three fuels because it needed more fuel to air ratio than the other fuels. (Exception, Optimus says that the Nova does not need a jet change, they claim it works well on Coleman fuel and kerosene but that stove works poorly on kerosene in my opinion.)
Also, some plastics degrade when in contact with alcohols, so if you put alcohol in a stove that had any O rings or other parts that were not safe for alcohol, you could have a real problem. So, don't try it on a stove that was not designed for that fuel. For example in the mid 80s in Minnesota, they started adding ethanol to gasoline and within a month my pickup truck gas tank was leaking and one of my carburetor jets dissolved.
The few stoves that would run on alcohol were quite heavy, so I think you would be better off not trying to find one for bike touring. I have an Optimus 111T which can use alcohol but I do not have the alcohol parts for it, I only use coleman fuel in it. But I recently bought the kerosene jet for it, so I might dabble with that. Kerosene is much cheaper than Coleman fuel in my area.
The photos are my 111T running on Coleman fuel.
Pavel:
This place is an incredible wealth of information. I take it that such a nice stove as this shown 111T is not manufactured any more? It just has an old time quality look to it.
I don't like the idea of the volatility of gas, and also white gas, but kerosene seems like a nice sort of fuel.
mickeg:
--- Quote from: pavel on June 10, 2017, 10:27:01 pm ---This place is an incredible wealth of information. I take it that such a nice stove as this shown 111T is not manufactured any more? It just has an old time quality look to it.
I don't like the idea of the volatility of gas, and also white gas, but kerosene seems like a nice sort of fuel.
--- End quote ---
I have no idea how long ago the 111T was taken out of production. I bought mine used, I think I paid about $100 USD. It might have been former military in Scandinavia. I bought a new 111B in the early 70s, the T came along after that. I do not think the T was ever sold retail in USA, I think anyone that has one got it used from a military surplus dealer. A lot of the Ts came with an O ring pump instead of a leather pump washer, I think I paid about $20 for a leather conversion.
This whole discussion started with you proposing the International version of the Whisperlight. That stove can run on kerosene, but keep in mind that kerosene does not readily evaporate. Thus, if you get it on stove parts or on the outside of your fuel bottle, it is still there hours later. I usually have carried my fuel bottle in a bike waterbottle cage if it had kerosene in it, but coleman fuel evaporates so quickly that I carry those fuel bottles in the panniers. Some people prime their kerosene stoves with other more volatile fuels. When I have used kerosene, I usually had a bottle of coleman fuel to prime the stove. When I did my Pacific Coast tour, my touring partner brought his International Whisperlight and he primed it with kerosene.
A gallon of coleman fuel usually costs me about ... ... ... , I just checked REI and they only sell the quart (~liter) size now (Crown brand, not Coleman) and they charge $7 USD for a quart. But I can buy kerosene at the farm supply store (I have a kerosene labeled fuel can) at the dispenser for less than $5 USD per gallon. That is what tempts me to use kerosene more.
Kerosene in my stoves usually leaves a blackened bottom on my cooking pots, but I don't worry about that.
I probably use more kerosene for cleaning really dirty bike chains than I use for cooking.
I have heard that some people have very good luck mixing fuel, about one part coleman fuel and three parts kerosene, I have not tried that but I think that might make my stoves less sooty.
John Saxby:
Pavel, I've used MSR multi-fuel stoves since the early 1980s, and still have my original G/K as well as a 20-year-old Dragonfly.
These things burn just about anything that will burn. (I've used diesel, aviation fuel, benzene, variants of gasoline [which terrified me] kerosene, and on a "what'll it do?" sort of dare, peanut oil. I seem to remember using alcohol at some point, in Southern Africa, but that was long ago, and maybe I was jumbling up stoves, eras, etc., etc. See below, however, on gasoline with ethanol.)
All things considered, Coleman fuel/white gas seems to be the best all-around. Kerosene requires priming with some other kind of fuel, but it is stable, and it's widely available around the world. BUT it can be of extremely variable quality, and if it's dirty, it can easily clog your jet, even if you have a shaker jet like the Dragonfly, or if you're a dab hand with the tiny wire jet-poker-thingy. It's also very stinky if you get it in your clothes, if that sort of thing matters to you, or to your nearest and dearest.
Visiting & then living in Zimbabwe in the 1980s, I did find that burning gasoline with 30% ethanol corrodes rubber or neoprene O-rings, so don't go to those kind of mixtures. (It also wrecked the neoprene tip of the carbuettor needle on my Toyota Corona, a problem fixable only by a brilliant back-streets shop in Harare, which put a wee dab of stainless steel on the tip of the needle, a permanent fix for $30.)
I've found the Dragonfly to be dead reliable and very efficient--an 800 ml bottle would do me for a full 5-day canoe trip, with some left over. (That was enough for two cooked meals a day, and several cups of tea each day.) The simmer control is wonderful; it also calms down the noise of the stove. (Then again, I've always assumed that the noise of the Dragonfly, full-on, and even more the G/K, which is essentially a compact, ground-mounted blowtorch, keeps the bears away.) The only downside for me is that it's bulky and heavy, compared to the Trangia (but not to other multi-fuels I've used). OTOH, on my canoe trips where there ain't no cafés/diners and such like, my meals are much better than the basic one-pot affairs I make with my Trangia when I'm bike-touring. The latter are OK, but because I usually go touring where I can find a café at least once a day, the Trangia meals are really a backup. If I were bike-touring in remote country, I'd probably use the Dragonfly, and economize on weight and volume somewhere else in my gear.
Hope that's helpful,
Cheers, John
mickeg:
One more consideration, if you are getting on an airplane (especially in USA) the airport security personnel can be very nervous about camp stoves if they can smell any fuel. It is common (according to comments on the internet) to have camp stoves confiscated by TSA (the USA airline security agency). No stove fuel of any kind can go on an airplane.
I brought a Optimus Nova to Iceland, but cleaning the fuel bottle before I got on each flight to and from with soap to the point that there was no odor was a lot of work. I found that the stove canisters that have a butane/isobutane/propane mix were readily available. If I get on an airplane with my camping gear again, I plan to just buy those fuel canisters upon arrival.
I have heard that the closer you get to France, the more likely you are to find the canisters that do not have the threaded valve that you thread your stove onto. Rest of world uses the canisters that have the threaded fitting that MSR, Snow Peak, Primus and most other stove brands work with. I saw both types of cannisters in Iceland on the free shelves at some of the campgrounds, I took a photo (attached) to show the difference. The canister on the left is unthreaded, will not work with most stoves. I think that some Primus stoves will work on both kinds of canisters. But other than that I think only Gaz makes the stoves that go on the unthreaded canisters.
If I flew to Europe, I would just bring a canister stove that threads on to the canister, and if I was close to France I would assume that I would have to buy the other kind of canister stove while I was there.
I have heard of canister stoves also being confiscated by TSA, but I am not sure if that was in a carry on or checked luggage. I had my Optimus Nova in my carry bag, TSA took it out to inspect it and they concluded that the saw tooth pattern on the pot supports were not sharp enough to be a weapon, so they let me keep my stove. After that I decided I will always put my stove in my checked baggage.
But, for bike touring where I am not getting on airplanes, I prefer liquid fuel stoves.
There are also the puncture type canisters, but I do not think a stove has been manufactured for decades that uses those. I still have a few such canisters, I bought several a couple years ago at a garage sale for very little cost because I still have an old Bluet stove that will use them.
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