Author Topic: Rohloffs are not invincible  (Read 22973 times)

onebikeoneworld

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Rohloffs are not invincible
« on: February 19, 2017, 09:32:16 am »
When I researched my Thorn in the first place, I found so many people repeating the story that Rohloffs don't break. That Rohloff haven't had a failure in forever. Well, I've just had mine fail for the second time. I'm going to share my experiences here to act as a small counter balance to the pure positivity I see elsewhere.

A bit of background, I've owned my Thorn Raven since Feb 2011. I bought it in person in Bridgwater and had excellent service. I started my bike trip in the US in May 2011 and in the first couple of months broke 4 rear spokes. I got in touch with SJS and we got the issue resolved that day by going to a bike shop and getting the wheel completely rebuilt. Thorn paid for it and even called the bike shop to clarify the details. It turned out that they'd received a bad batch of spokes. Excellent service.

3 years later it was July 2014 and I was in southern Brazil when gears 4, 6 and 7 all started to slip. I'd be riding along and maybe every 3-4 revolutions of my pedal there'd be a slight slip rendering those 3 gears basically unusable. I got in touch with Rohloff, they suggested some measures such as performing an oil change which I had done and didn't seem to resolve the issue. They said no problem and sent me a new set of internals for my hub to Uruguay. I got it swapped out and obviously had to send the old internals back to them, but they were very nice and said it didn't matter when it would arrive as long as it did. A story I've told many people about how wonderful Rohloff customer service is.

That takes us to last year. My Rohloff again began to slip. It wasn't at the same level of consistency as it had been in 2014, but it also affected gears 4, 6, 7 as well as 11. It mainly seemed to happen when there was more pressure on. I was travelling in Northern Africa at the time and so there wasn't much of an option but to ignore it and not use those gears. I was home in the summer and for some reason the issue seemed to have disappeared as I couldn't reproduce it with some testing. In hindsight it seems that it it might have been down to the lack of weight on my bike, but I'm not sure. Anyway, I flew to Iceland and soon realised that the issue was still there. As it was more intermittent, it could basically be ignored and I used 3-4 of my 14 gears infrequently. By December gears 4, 6 + 7 had basically become unusable.

Fast forward to last month when I got home and in touch with SJS about the issue. I was told to send it in and they'd get it forwarded to Rohloff. Rohloff received the hub and refused to fix it under guarantee. They said that there was coagulated water inside and it was clearly my fault from submerging the hub. Apparently when that happens we have to do an immediate oil change or problems happen. The thing is, the Rohloff hub hasn't been submerged. I'm one of those long-distance tourers who generally follow the pavement. I'm not a big off-road person and so the number of streams that I ride through is 0. I don't buy their explanation, but they held fast and I was billed £230 to repair the hub. SJS were very helpful during this whole exchange as they have been each time I've contacted them.

I accept that having done 90,000km on it over the previous 6 years, you can say that it's a lot of wear and tear. I was just massively disappointed with the customer service that I'd received from Rohloff over this issue. Oh and by the way, I also managed to develop wobble in my wheel due to the bearings failing. Bottom line, Rohloffs break and Rohloff customer service is usually good but not always. On the other hand SJS service has always been spectacular.

rualexander

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2017, 10:14:44 am »
How does water coagulate?
£230 doesn't seem too bad for a repair as long as it sorts out the problem.
Unfortunate and annoying for you no doubt.

leftpoole

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2017, 10:39:59 am »
How does water coagulate?
.
It is coagulated oil/water
John

jags

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2017, 11:09:38 am »
well im not a fan of rohloff but 90,000 miles  on one hub or did i read that wrong .
question now is are u going to buy another rohloff.

bobs

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2017, 04:27:09 pm »
90000k on the hub which has been fixed for £230 and now good for another 90000k :)

Bob

Javier

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2017, 04:37:34 pm »
I am not taking any side (pros-cons Rohloff). Mine has only 17000 km with no problems whatsoever. When touring in Tierra de Fuego I saw Rohloff cyclists wading rivers of considerable width by pushing off the bike with the Rohloff hub totally submerged, sometimes even for a few minutes. Although this way was very convenient (bicycle fully loaded and just one way trip) I preferred to take my time, unload the bike, cross the bike on my shoulder (hub outside the water) and in other 1 or 2 trips cross my luggage. A little bit more hustle and time consuming, but safer for the bicycle and gear. It is not worth to take any risk that might damage your bicycle when touring, it can jeopardize your trip or have consequences at medium or long term.
Blue feet after crossing rivers, for sure, the melted ice from the glaciers is bloody freezing  :)

RonS

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2017, 05:24:46 pm »
Rohloff hubs do not come with a lifetime warranty. They come with a two year warranty.

It is unfortunate that your hub has failed twice, both times outside the warranty period, but, instead of feeling that you have been treated poorly by Rolloff, I think you should be thankful that they have charged you so little for repairs that they had no legal obligation to provide for free.

I wish you all the best, and at least another 90,000km of hopefully trouble free cycling.

rualexander

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2017, 06:16:40 pm »
How does water coagulate?
.
It is coagulated oil/water
John
How does oil and water coagulate?

GamblerGORD649

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2017, 09:13:52 pm »
Sooo, I gather what happened is the OP expected it to need NO service except oil drops ??? WTH
The bearings went and let rain inside. NOT Rohloff's fault at all. This also may be why the gear slippage occurred. How many seal changes? What about backing off the cranks during shifts? 100% necessary IME. Mine has just 10,700 miles. with only a few weird noise episodes. Maybe I should do a seal change soon.
How many STUPID deFaillers would that equate to ???

My SA front dyno drum hub ate a sealed bearing at 17,000 miles. 4 balls turned to crumbs inside, but wrecked nothing. ha I put the new $8 part in expect another 20,000 miles.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 04:45:49 am by GamblerGORD649 »

rualexander

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2017, 09:54:08 pm »
Sooo, I gather what happened is the OP expected it to need NO service except oil drops ??? WTH
The bearings went and let rain inside. NOT Rohloff's fault at all. This also may be why the gear slippage occurred. How many seal changes? What about backing off the cranks during shifts? 100% necessary IME. Mine has just 10,700 miles. with only a few weird noise episodes. Maybe I should do a seal change soon.
How many STUPID deFaillers would that equate to ???

My SA front dyno drum hub ate at sealed bearing at 17,000 miles. 4 balls turned to crumbs inside, but wrecked nothing. ha I put the new $8 part in expect another 20,000 miles.

To be fair, oil changes are the only recommended routine servicing for Rohloff hubs.
Seal changes are not an expected routine maintenance task.


Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2017, 11:03:10 pm »
Sooo, I gather what happened is the OP expected it to need NO service except oil drops ??? WTH
The bearings went and let rain inside. NOT Rohloff's fault at all. This also may be why the gear slippage occurred. How many seal changes? What about backing off the cranks during shifts? 100% necessary IME. Mine has just 10,700 miles. with only a few weird noise episodes. Maybe I should do a seal change soon.
How many STUPID deFaillers would that equate to ???

My SA front dyno drum hub ate at sealed bearing at 17,000 miles. 4 balls turned to crumbs inside, but wrecked nothing. ha I put the new $8 part in expect another 20,000 miles.

To be fair, oil changes are the only recommended routine servicing for Rohloff hubs.
Seal changes are not an expected routine maintenance task.

In any event, the seals, some of them paper, are intended to keep crud out of the gearbox. They aren't even intended to keep oil in, so it should be obvious that if the hub is submerged, water will get in. All of this is described in the manual, which is available in clear English, with all components, functions, adjustments and actions beautifully photographed. I imagine an actually watertight hub would weigh at least twice as much, maybe even three times as much.

The OP basically got 90K out of a thousand pound gearbox, which is very good going, then another 90K of abuse for £230. Seems like a rather fair price to me. How many derailleur sets at what price in 90K?

"Coagulated water" is probably an oil and water mix foamed up by the eggbeater action of the hub's internals, with the detergents in the oil, the cause of the foam, later semi-solidifying. There would be a visible residue inside the hub.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 10:46:42 pm by Andre Jute »

Relayer

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2017, 07:49:33 am »
Given that the OP actually got a brand new set of internals in year 3 of the 6, he only got roughly 45,000km each out of the 2 failed Rohloff mechanisms, not 90,000km as mentioned above.

Is there a guarantee that the OP will get another 90,000km hassle free (or even 45,000km)? seems extremely unlikely since that's as far as he got twice previously with brand new moving parts; he's starting again with a lot of wear in his hub .... and I'd guess he'll have to pay again next time his hub fails.

If I was being cynical I would think that Rohloff's assertion that the OP had submerged his hub [and the second failure was therefore 'his fault'] was a ruse to maintain their claim that they've never had a hub fail in up to 70,000km use. The OP's assertion that he has never ridden through a stream puts a big question mark over the validity of Rohloff's claim.

The subject heading says it all really.

Mike Ayling

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2017, 09:11:16 am »
How does water coagulate?
.
It is coagulated oil/water
John

I think that the technical term is to emulsify.

Mike

Peter_K

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 12:43:15 pm »
My own Rohloff hub failed to during my first longer (two month) trip to India.

In the beginning it was like a new chain skipping over a worn out sprocket, but then inside the hub, for only one of the gears. But it got worse and worse, and in the end I lost 8 of the 14 gears.

I contacted Rohloff, but it was Christmas time, and at that time they close the factory. They also close their factory in the summertime. Some people with knowledge of the hub suggested to give the hub a some blows on the axle from different sides with a rubber hammer. The hub is said to have "floating bearings", hitting them could help them settle in the right way. It didn't help.

So, as suggested by the Rohlff site I contacted their importers, and only the Australian importer replied and sent me an oil package to solve the problem. Due to idiotness of that Australian it cost me a week waiting and looking for the package in Bangalore/Bangaluru, and when using the oil it didn't solve the problem at all. (I was told to cycle a couple of days with a double amount of rinsing oil.)

Back at home Rohloff repaired the hub completely free of charge. On the accompanying slip they wrote they had "calibrated" the hub.

I think the problem lays in the axle of the hub. The axle has pawls going up and down, and I suspect those from not moving sufficiently.

Nowadays I always carry the tool to disassemble the sprocket with me, so I have the possibility to open the hub when on a tour. I also have a second wheel with Rohloff hub at home as spare now.

Indeed, Rohloffs are not invincible. The company gives great support, when they are not closed for holidays. One can better ignore the importers when in trouble.

bobs

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Re: Rohloffs are not invincible
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2017, 01:22:44 pm »
Here is an example of Rohloff customer service.it is a copy of a post my friend made a few years ago. The problem was nothing to do with the  hub but the bike a Surly Troll which did not have the correct axle plate. He now has a Nomad.



Raymond's  story




First thing's first, a big thank you to Stuart, who played a blinder and made the visit to the Rohloff factory, a complete pleasure.
Stuart amongst all the other things, deals with the English speaking customers and makes the whole process seamless.
Great to see customer service at the top of the list and not a dying art that you get with other companies.
Also dealing with someone who knows the product inside out, only inspires confidence in the Rohloff brand.

Bob & I, on our annual overseas trip had flown to Basal in Switzerland, 8 days previous, before boarding a train and boat towards Lindau in Germany
We would spend the following days cycling the Bodensee Konigssee Radweg, past some of the best alpine scenery.
Although we had taken camping equipment, we were fortunate, not to have used it.
Instead we stayed in Hostels, Pensions & Gasthaus.
Enroute my Rohloff had developed some slippage when gears 4, 6, 7 &11 were selected and although it did not affect the trip, it was more of an annoyance.
Prior to the trip I had replaced my shifter and converted my Rohloff to an EX box and was unsure if this was the reason.
On completion of the route and with 2 days left before flying out from Munich, we decided to email Rohloff with my concerns and see if they would they have a quick look at my hub, if we just turned up.
I left my phone number and stated that if it was okay could they call me as we would be onboard the train and making the 400 mile journey, from Berchestgaden to Kassel
Sure enough, enroute I received a call from Stuart and was advised to turn up and the mechanics would give it the once over and whilst that was being carried out, Stuart would give us a guided tour around the factory.
As we arrived in Kassel at 1600 hours on the Monday the factory would be closing soon and staff would be heading home.
We headed for the Kassel Youth Hostel, before making the 6km run out to the factory in Fultadal, so we would know the route on Tuesday morning as time was of the essence as we had to make sure we were in Munich Airport for 1900 hours for our flight home.
Tuesday morning we were on the Rohloff door step at 0645, just as the staff were rolling in.
Stuarts expecting you, grab yourself a coffee, he'll be in at 0700.
Needless to say my Rohloff was fixed, some new seals fitted and an oil change done.
Stuart, after explaining his role in the company, took us through the whole Rohloff build procedure, from axle to completed hub.
Having worked in the shop floor at the start of his career with Rohloff, he made short work of the build process.
We can now appreciate, why the Rohloff costs what it does after seeing its inner workings.
All parts made in Germany, with exceptional tolerances at every stage of the build.
An hour and half later and on our departure, the bossman and his wife made an appearance.
We'd like to think, that he heard we were in town, but in reality, we think that he likes to keep a hands on approach to his creations.
Mrs Rohloff gave us some Rohloff stories books.
All in all a great end to a cracking trip.





« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 01:35:51 pm by bobs »