Author Topic: anto's audax.  (Read 101278 times)

Danneaux

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #90 on: February 11, 2017, 05:28:25 PM »
You're very welcome, Anto; thanks for the kind words.  :)

Based on your photos of them ( http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12167.msg89370#msg89370 ), I think the Laker SPD shoes you got are too tight for you and are causing undue pressure and nerve stimulation under your feet, resulting in pain. Perhaps you could sell them on and try another pair?

Not every shoe works equally well for every person. It is amazing how much difference a change can make. Of all the road cleats I've tried, I found (and still use on some bikes) the old Detto Pietro Article 74 was the only one that really worked (and only after modifying the inside with new arch supports and orthotics). For my SPDs, I initially tried a nice pair of Gyros before switching unsuccessfully to some by Louis Garneau. I found the solution in my Shimano MO-88s, but again only after fitting an insole and an orthotic insert. Till then, my feet were in bits and resulted in neat agony. The point is you'll get there, but it may take a bit of effort to find the "right" shoe for your comfort and efficiency.

Quote
I'm surprised nobody notices the rear tyre lol 28 and 25 up front...i could feel the difference in the rear 28 conti  hard to believe i know but seems 3mm makes a difference but it does
For sure! Air volume = air spring. It also means you could slightly reduce your tire pressure at the rear for even greater comfort. There's not much tire to protect the rim from potholes evenso, so don't over due it, but you should be able to reduce pressure by at least a couple psi.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 05:36:53 PM by Danneaux »

jags

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #91 on: February 11, 2017, 06:38:48 PM »
Would dropping air pressure not reduce speed.I like the idea of comfort but not at the cost off lower average speed :'(

Danneaux

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #92 on: February 11, 2017, 07:12:44 PM »
Anto,

The appropriate tire pressure depends on tire volume, so rim width comes into play as well.

This has been covered extensively on the Forum ( http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3798.0 ), so I'll just give a thumbnail summary: A lot of tires are run at unnecessarily high pressures. The recommended pressures printed on the tire sidewalls may well be in excess of what if required or (in the case of wide tires run at maximum pressures) even hazardous to rim life. A wider tire has more air volume, so can be run at slightly lower pressures for greater comfort without sacrificing rolling resistance. Part of the reason depends on the shape of the contact patch at the pavement for narrow vs. wider tires.

A number of studies have shown that pressures that allow a ~15% drop in rim-to-floor distance when loaded is a good rule of thumb for maximizing comfort without increasing rolling resistance. There are various charts and formulas and even some apps that calculate this for you, making it easy. American cyclist and petroleum engineer Frank Berto did the hard work and research behind these figures, based on surveys of a number of bicycle tire makers.

I used to hammer 125psi/8.6bar into 23-25mm tires in the pre-Internet days of long ago (i.e. late 1970s to early 1980s) when the only high quality tires available to me locally for touring were race-training tires. With tires that narrow carrying touring loads on rough gravel roads, higher pressures were absolutely required to avoid pinch flats and rim damage, and I've got the nerve damage in my hands to prove it!

When high quality touring tires became readily available to me in larger volumes, I was quick to mount them. I use the Android Berto Tire Pressure app, which I've found works well for my needs when the proper frame type, bike loads, tire size, and rider/bike weights are entered. To give you some examples for my various 700C randonneur bikes...
• F50psi/R61psi (3.4/4.2bar) with 700x34 tires actual width on wide rims, unladen except for rider weight
• F58psi/R71psi (4.0/4.9bar) with 700x32 tires actual width on narrow rims, unladen except for rider weight
• F49psi/R60psi (3.4/4.1bar) with 700x34 tires actual width on narrow rims, unladen except for rider weight

Though my weight remains constant, the bikes vary in weight, rim width, and tire cross-section/volume, so the same pressure varies from bike to bike.

Despite what might look like low pressures to a road rider, I find these bikes all roll very well over 300-400km day rides and I have experienced no rim or tire damage or pinch flat even on rough surfaces.

If you would like to send me your weight attired in your usual riding kit, your bike's weight wet (with full water bottles), your tire sizes F/R, and the weight and location of any carried luggage, I can calculate a suggested set of tire pressures for your review*. NOTE: Not all tires are the stated volume/size when inflated, so it is best to caliper them to find the actual size. If you don't have calipers, use an adjustable wrench to measure at the widest point of the tire sidewalls, then transfer that measurement to a ruler.

For example (just plucking figures out of the air...), say you weigh 170lbs, the bike with rear rack, pump, and full bottles weighs 25lbs and has classic road bike design, and you're running a 700x25C tire up front and a 700x28C in the rear, then some starting pressures to try would be F66psi/R87psi (4.6/6.0bar). I used pounds for weight because the app requires data be in that format for entry. If you usually use 90psi F/R, this would mean you could try dropping 3psi in the rear and dropping as much as 24psi in front without a huge increase in rolling resistance according to the Berto's findings. I would suggest you start by reducing only 3psi front and rear and seeing how it feels and rides and would not drop too much air from that 25mm front tire, as there's not a lot of protection for the rim. Nothing like a real-world trial with caution to see how it goes. It might help your back. Still a Very Good Idea to avoid the largest potholes whenever you can.

[EDIT: *Done via PM]

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 07:59:44 PM by Danneaux »

jags

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2017, 08:10:21 PM »
 ;) i'll try that cheers.

anto.

RonS

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #94 on: February 11, 2017, 09:32:30 PM »
Anto

Check out these articles by Jan Heine of Compass tire fame. You may be surprised to find that lower pressure is not slower. Neither are wider tires.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/01/26/the-tire-pressure-revolution/

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/03/09/tire-pressure-take-home/

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/08/22/minimum-tire-pressure/

Happy Riding

Ron

PS Great looking bike!


martinf

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2017, 09:44:49 PM »
To complement Dan's suggestions, the actual pressures I use on my 700C derailleur bike (probably slightly heavier than an Audax) for my 85Kg/187 pound rider weight are:

Front 65psi
Rear 75psi

Tyres are Schwalbe One 28 mm, actual width a bit less than 28 mm.

I should theoretically use a lower pressure than 65psi in the front, but I don't like to drop the pressure too far, especially with narrow tyres.

As Dan suggests, I start with a fairly high pressure and progressively use lower pressures, but I don't go below a minimum I reckon to be a safe value to avoid pinch punctures. When/if I feel a reduction in performance I add pressure (about 10 psi for narrow tyres, less for wide tyres). 

Advantage of using relatively low pressures - more comfort.
Dsadvantage - I need to check tyre pressure more often than someone who always inflates to the maximum permitted pressure.

jags

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2017, 10:07:27 PM »
cheers lads sure nothing beats a try but a failure  ;)
i ride 90psi all the time so i'll try it our see how i get on thanks

anto.

Danneaux

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2017, 10:34:07 PM »
+1 on all Martin said, Anto.  :)

Best,

Dan.

John Saxby

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #98 on: February 11, 2017, 11:29:35 PM »
Echoing Martin and Dan's comments, Anto:  On my derailleur bike, I run Schwalbe Marathon Racers, 700x35 (actual around 32-33). With the bike unladen except for rider ( ~87-90 kg, depending on the season) and a seat bag & small h'bar bag, I use about 50-55 PSI in the front, 60 at the rear. Works very well, no road buzz at all.  The M'thon Racers have nice flexible sidewalls -- that characteristic, plus the lower pressures, give a good ride, and so far, no pinch flats.

Cheers,

John

jags

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #99 on: February 12, 2017, 12:19:12 AM »
Cheers John seems there a lot in favor of lower psi  i always went with the recommended tire pressure on the side of the tire ,you learn something new every day ;).
i came across a campsite  earlier on  much closer to home so when the weather picks up( if ever) i'll load up the audax and try it out .

thanks everyone .

anto.

Danneaux

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #100 on: February 15, 2017, 08:24:49 PM »
Anto and his Audax, out and about in the County Louth countryside...

Best,

Dan.

alfie1952

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #101 on: February 15, 2017, 08:38:36 PM »
Hi Anto.
Not long back from the house hunting, but I have been periodically looking in at your build. The boy done good, a great build and a super looking machine, that's going to give you lots of miles and smiles. :) :) :)
Regards Alfie.

jags

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #102 on: February 15, 2017, 08:40:37 PM »
Cheers Alfie  did u buy or just looking.
 yeah well pleased with the bike tis a nice ride for sure. ;)


anto.

jags

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #103 on: February 15, 2017, 08:46:50 PM »
Thanks Dan as always  .
yeah a nice route  to Newgrange roads are terrible but sure a fella gets used to that here.
just 20 odd miles  2 hills thrown in at a very easy pace .
bit of luck i'll get more miles in tomorrow got to get the miles in   burn off all the sweet cakes ;D ;D

anto.

RST Scout

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Re: anto's audax.
« Reply #104 on: February 17, 2017, 03:03:07 PM »
That bike looks really nice. Good-one Anto!
Scout & Bettina's slave!