Author Topic: Ultralight touring on light bikes  (Read 9263 times)

jags

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Ultralight touring on light bikes
« on: January 12, 2015, 12:34:53 AM »
[Minor edit to allow topic splitting. -- Dan.]
mind you i have to say i'm a big fan of carbon road bikes,  if ever i get my Dolan built it sure will be a strunner to good for this geek . ;D
but the steel bike thats been made today  are only fantastic,  talking lightweight  road bikes like Lemond And Seven   why they can't do this with touring bikes is a mystery to me.
my son has taking ownership of my lovely Raleigh 753 completly stripped it down  ,he's putting carbon forks on it  ::) 8) a mix of campag  shimano that should be interesting if it works new wheels ,i have no doubt he will get it spot on to what works good to see it getting a new life .
i have a sneky feeling my lovely carbon  frame wont last as long as my steel raleigh but what the hell if i get another 6 years cycling from it happy days,i'll take up bird watching or bushcraft  when the legs turn to jelly.
jags.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 04:40:17 PM by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2015, 01:02:54 AM »
Quote
the steel bike thats been made today  are only fantastic,  talking lightweight  road bikes like Lemond And Seven   why they can't do this with touring bikes is a mystery to me.
Anto!

The luggage of a touring bike adds weight and static and dynamic loads apart from the rider, and in different places. The chainstays have to be made longer so heels will clear panniers mounted on a rear rack, for example. Make those thin, lightweight stays longer and you begin to have problems with rear-frame whippiness. Also, upright frame angles that give wish-quick handling on a go-fast road bike aren't so stable when touring with a load. There's other reasons, but the core of it is, the lightweight steel road frames are really optimal as...lightweight steel road frames. Tourers need more "meat" in just the right places and slightly different geometry to work really well at the task for long days hauling, and this makes them heavier and less quick-feeling...which is a good thing!

The ideal solution is (at least) one of each kind!  :D

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 04:39:30 PM by Danneaux »

jags

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Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2015, 11:36:37 AM »
But dan most of the weight is carrier on the rear so  no need for heavy forks. no need for  heavy seat post/ bottom bracket/most of them are way to heavy,  saddle brooks are omfy but hey  they weigh 5 times as much as a fifik saddle  mudguards are evil buy a lightweigh clip on mudguard works everybit as good.excellent set of strong  lightweight wheels and your away in a hack.
buy or use or make light panniers ,cut your load  in half  buy lightweigh gear .
yeah i still believe  a super strong lightweigh steel touring bike is possible .
btw i'm talking here touring bikes that use tarmac not  rough roads of sand .


jags.

leftpoole

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Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2015, 12:33:13 PM »
But dan most of the weight is carrier on the rear so  no need for heavy forks. no need for  heavy seat post/ bottom bracket/most of them are way to heavy,  saddle brooks are omfy but hey  they weigh 5 times as much as a fifik saddle  mudguards are evil buy a lightweigh clip on mudguard works everybit as good.excellent set of strong  lightweight wheels and your away in a hack.
buy or use or make light panniers ,cut your load  in half  buy lightweigh gear .
yeah i still believe  a super strong lightweigh steel touring bike is possible .
btw i'm talking here touring bikes that use tarmac not  rough roads of sand .


jags.

Anto,
You do talk some rubbish  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
John

jags

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Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2015, 12:47:14 PM »
i know i know  ;D ;D ;D i was gonna add a lot more but dan might  give me the red card  ;D

Danneaux

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Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2015, 04:23:34 PM »
Anto...

I've mentioned Slovenian cyclist Igor Kovse -- Iik -- to you before (as have others), but it is worth noting again: He does exactly what you say, and is the model for ultralight bike touring. You might enjoy taking another look at his setups, but be aware...no 2-3 person tents for him! No chair! Ultralight sometimes means sawing extra supports from his aluminum carriers (he carries so little, the extra supports aren't needed). One might disagree with his methods, but the results are unassailable. I've followed him from his first posts and admire him and his methods greatly and have been influenced by him, though it wouldn't suit me to adopt them wholesale.

Among many references now available, see:
http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.com/
http://www2.arnes.si/~ikovse/weight1.htm
http://www2.arnes.si/~ikovse/
http://www.trentobike.org/byauthor/IgorKovse.html
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=87118
http://www.ctc.org.uk/file/member/201203038.pdf

Here's a similar approach: https://frankburns.wordpress.com/tag/cycle-touring/

Another, less extreme way to accomplish ultralight touring on the lightest of bikes is via credit card touring. If you'll be buying your meals, you don't need cookpots and stove. If you'll be sleeping in lodging, no need for tent, pad, and sleeping bag. Many toiletries can be found at a hotel front desk on request (and payment). Calculate the weather and season accordingly, and you might make do carrying only a spare set of clothing and a Tyvek jacket against the odd shower.

Weight begets weight. My Nomad weighs 20kg all by itself, dry(!), but I need it to haul the massive quantities of water and food needed for solo desert and wild touring when nothing else would do. It has also become a dandy substitute MTB for me, encouraging many an off-road foray amidst unladen 200km day rides on paved roads. The rando bikes work better for longer paved riding, but nothing in my stable beats the Nomad for low-maintenance hauling capacity in a compact package.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 04:39:49 PM by Danneaux »

JimK

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Re: Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2015, 05:08:25 PM »
What I really liked about Ray Jardine's book wasn't so much the weight saving tricks but the philosophical outlook. Rather than traveling a bit like in outer space, i.e. isolating yourself from the environment and carrying everything you need, the idea is to study the environment, work with the environment, get intimate with the environment. That's the great fun of travel, anyway! If it is just an athletic event, you could be on a trainer in a fixed location!

The great idea is to fit the way of traveling to the terrain. The game is not to focus on equipment lists and comparing equipment options, but to study the resources and challenges of the terrain: the people, the climate, etc. How do you want to interact with the world?

I have heard that in places like India and China, for the most part it makes no sense to attempt camping. Of course China is huge and diverse so it depends where you are in China. But mostly there are people everywhere and you can find an inexpensive roof.

Versus e.g. a route like the Great Divide Trail in the USA. 

jags

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Re: Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2015, 05:23:04 PM »
Have to look at those links later on Dan .
that guy is a complete nutter ,fair play to him for going that route  but a tad extreame. ;D ;D.
there a guy on on bikeforums that tours on a cervelo carbon bike set up is much like frank burns i think he has a super system. if i had a super lightweigh tent i reckon i could do overnighters on the dolan   emmm well maybe not but i live in hope (most of the time)
i willhave a closer look later on the frank  burns set up looks very interesting.
thanks dan i'll have u  going ultralight yet. ;D ;D


anto.

Danneaux

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Re: Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2015, 06:31:24 PM »
Quote
thanks dan i'll have u  going ultralight yet.
Oh, but I have, Anto, and still do on occasion, carrying all I need in my two small Ortlieb SportPackers (all my clothing, sleeping bag, pad, food, stove and cookpots) and atop my rear rack (tent). Around 20 lbs all-up for the contents. Add a handlebar bag, and I've got an embarrassment of room.

I just can't do it for my long self-supported solo tours in the middle of nowhere.

Horses for courses!  ;D

Agreed on Ray Jardine's wholly-integrative philosophy, Jim. It is a nice approach, also admired by me.

All the best,

Dan.

leftpoole

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Re: Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2015, 06:39:46 PM »
Ray Jardine is a curse to real outdoor people in my opinion. He and his wife have made money from his approach. The problem is, that in real life UK at least, the climate is not suited to Bushwhacking!
John

mickeg

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Re: Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2015, 07:30:03 PM »
My last tour I decided to use my 2004 Long Haul Trucker with 700c wheels since it would all be on road, no off road.  The prior three tours I did were on my Thorn Sherpa with 26 inch wheels.

Nobody has ever accused the Long Haul Trucker of being too light, but quite frankly on my last tour I found the frame flex to be too significant for me and I was wishing I had my Sherpa instead. 

If somebody feels that my Brooks is 5 times as heavy as it should be, that is their opinion and I encourage them to use a saddle that weighs one fifth the weight.

I however did buy Tubus Ergo and Logo EVO racks to replace my Surly racks that were much heavier, I think the Logo EVO is even stiffer than the Surly was.

jags

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Re: Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2015, 07:35:50 PM »
Dan this wee bike i have here beside me would be good for light touring  my buddy also gave me a beamrack for it so it will carry my barley no problem ,(man oh man i should have kept that akto ).
had a good look at that guys blog his load wasnt unlike mine except for the tent,defo the way to go,

john there ain't nothing wrong with making money as long as u don't rob anyone to get it. ;)

anto.
Mike i had the brooks b17 specialon my sherpa fantastic saddle no douby but my light fizik alanti is every bit as comfy thats the truth, oh and nothing wrong with a bit of flex in a frame inbuilt suspension.

AndyE

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Re: Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2015, 09:37:19 PM »
The problem is, that in real life UK at least, the climate is not suited to Bushwhacking!
John

Have to disagree there a bit John, going light weight or ultralight has been going on in the UK for years with bikes, kayaks and on foot. It all boils down what one is prepaid to put up with and going ultralight you have to be dam sure you know how to use that kit correctly. That said, it can all go "Pete Tong" (wrong) very quickly if you skill, ability, kit and judgement are flawed, as many mountain marathon runners have found to their cost! that applies to all three disciplines above. Admittedly you do have to have the determination  and commitment to get any real enjoyment from that type of activity in the UK , the VISA card option sound the best way to light at my age ;D

Andy
Doncaster in deepest South of Yorkshire

jags

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Re: Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2015, 10:03:21 PM »
i like the idea of sleeping in a tent but i'm the worst in the world just can't relax in one.
i still think going as light as possible is the way to go ,no excused really when you think of the gear thats out there well if a fella could afford it that is. ::).knowing your gear and how to use it is spot on Andy all down to experience i guess..
did i ever tell you about my france tour ;D ;D the time i camped in the mourn mountains  in a feckin storm with a lunitic ::).
i'll never learn thats a fact.

anto.

AndyE

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Re: Ultralight touring on light bikes
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2015, 10:22:43 PM »
Well there is one thing you have learned from those experiences Anto! that it's survivable ;D
Doncaster in deepest South of Yorkshire