Technical > Wheels, Tyres and Brakes

Rear hub choice for heavy touring tandem with Arai brake

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mumford:
Hi all,
Kirsty and I are 12 weeks and 6000km into a 2 year tour from the UK to NZ on a Thorn Discovery tandem. Www.shesnotpedallingontheback.com.

We bought the bike second hand a couple of years ago so have no idea exactly how many miles it's done but the previous owner thought it was built circa year 2000 and they'd done some shorter trips. We've put a few thousand km onto it before starting this trip too.

Before we left we had the hub, a 48h Shimano tandem unit with Arai drum, serviced but it developed a bit of play about 5000km into this trip. We had it stripped and regressed and new seals fitted and all seems to be OK for now but for how long? My worry is that it may not be reliable through the tougher parts of the trip like The Pamir highway, Nepal and China. Parts may be harder to find over there too.
Has anyone any experience of this hub for long tours? Should we just be prepared to service it every few thousand km and cast spare parts? The alternative options seem to be a white industries or remortgage for a Phil Wood and get the wheel rebuilt. If this means a more bombproof solution and some peace of mind then it could be worth it.

All thoughts, suggestions and stories of experience would be appreciated.

Regards

Marcus

Danneaux:
Hi Marcus, and welcome to the Thorn Cycling Forum!

I'm in a similar boat with my 1989 tandem and Arai drum brake. I know eventually the Suzue freewheel hub will need replacement and then...? Some of the newer tandem rear hubs with threads on the left side are indeed incredibly expensive.

For awhile, I was in negotiations to have an adapter made to go from a 6-bolt disc hub to a threaded Arai mount. Things looked promising for awhile, but fell through. I'm now looking at the problem anew and wondering if the Arai's backplate could be modified for a 6-bolt disc hub. I've found the Arai to be really helpful on long, steep descents. With its SunTour bar-con actuator at full lock as a drag brake, it keeps the speed down to around 68kph/42mph. Without it, I commonly hit speeds over 101kph/63mph with a stoker aboard on the steep hills surrounding Eugene on three sides. I use SunTour and Scott/Pedersen SE cantilevers along with the Arai. Drums can absorb a *lot* of heat and still work well. I've seen mine glow quietly after long nighttime descents.

Past post on the topic here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=7115.0

Of course, Arai is no longer. An (expensive) replacement is now available in the Maddock Machine "Mad Dog" drag brake, manufactured just up the river from my home:
http://tandemgeek.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/next-generation-drag-brake/
http://tandemgeek.wordpress.com/2013/07/10/next-generation-drag-brake-now-available/
http://www.tandemseast.com/parts/brakes.html#Maddox drum

Back to hubs: Here's a list of cassette hubs that are currently available *and* Arai-compatible:

• Phil Wood (40, 48 drillings)
• Shimano (HF-07 and -08 in 145 and 160 OLN, 40, 48 drillings)
• White Insustries (Daisy and Jockey models, 40, 48 drillings)
• Hadley (40, 48 drillings)
• Aerospoke 26in tandem wheels can be had in a model that is Arai-compatible
• Chris King (maybe, made in Portland just north of me)
• DT Hugi (maybe)

What I'll probably do with the Suzue is use it till the ball races are gone, then knock out the ball race and mill the opening to take a sealed cartridge bearing and press that into place. Should work so long as my stock of 7-sp SunTour AccuShift freewheels holds out. A lot cheaper than buying one of the options above, though it is really just postponing the inevitable.

Given the costs involved, if I were in your position at present, I'd lay in a stock of spares for the Shimano and figure on it raking me through the Pamir and beyond if serviced periodically. Remember, the right-hand bearings are in the freewheel part of the freehub, and the left side has adjustable cones. Therefore, the thing to ultimately limit you would the be the condition of the left bearing race, and it could be milled and replaced with a sealed cartridge bearing as I plan. I've done it once before on a single-bike hub with good results.

If you do go with a replacement, I think I'd choose the Phil FSA (Field-Serviceable Axle) Arai-compatible tandem hub, and take a spair pair of bearings with me in case field-servicing is needed.

In case you're wondering about the other side of the equation, Arai brakes can be relined at any friction materials shop (automotive clutches, brakes) and I once knew of several moped brake shoes that would fit reasonably well with a bit of edge grinding. be sure to grease the cam actuator with just a dab of high-temperature brake grease that won't run when hot, and replace the friction materials before the wear goes into the shoe itself.

Best,

Dan. (...who would rather his tandem brake than break)

il padrone:
As far as I am aware all the Shimano hubs run with standard cup & cone bearings. I don't know why you would want to move from ths to sealed cartridges on a global tour as bearings (and probably cones) for these are going to be far more readily availble in places like Kashgar than sealed bearings to fit a specific bicycle brand.

"developed a bit of play" Normal treatment for this would be a quick and simple cone adjustment and set, rather than a strip and regrease. Was there some other concern that prompted this? BTW, always go with loose balls with a cup & cone, not the caged balls.

I have the Shimano HF08 hub on my tandem with an Arai brake fitted. It has been fine, but has not done too many thousands of kilometres so far. My old Sedona MTB had Sunshine hubs, with cup & cone bearings and simple rubber contact seals on them. These hubs were seriously neglected  :-[ They ran for 20 years, probably something over 100,000 kms, just retired off what is now my son's bike last year for the Rohloff, and in that time they were probably only serviced about four times.

I'd be really surprised if you continued to need hub servicing every few thousand kms.

Danneaux:

--- Quote ---I don't know why you would want to move from ths to sealed cartridges on a global tour as bearings (and probably cones) for these are going to be far more readily availble in places like Kashgar than sealed bearings to fit a specific bicycle brand.
--- End quote ---
Well, Pete, ball-bearings are indeed likely to be available in many places. However, that is not always the case for cones, which can become pitted and -- eventually -- races, which can do the same. I've had a tough time over the years finding cones for my older hubs right here in Civilization. They key problem I've found has been the thickness of the cones, their outside diameter at the hub dust cap or seal, and the angle of the bearing-race, making for something less than universal substitutions. Thank goodness for Wheels Mfg and their stock of parts available to nearly any bike shop who orders from them: http://wheelsmfg.com/products/axles-cones-hub-parts.html

If sealed bearings are user-replaceable and a person packs a pair in their kit, the entire hub can made essentially new just by swapping in a fresh set. They typically require no maintenance, but it is easy to remove the seals with the tip of a Swiss Army Knife, flush with solvent and regrease if water does get inside. Most are standard sizes available in advance from nearly any industrial bearing supplier. A pair doesn't take up much space in a touring spares kit.

All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks such matters are of great bearing for the touring cyclist :D )

mumford:
Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'll get down to Athens and then open it up again and see what condition the cones and bearings are in and if needs be replace them there. It should be relatively easy to find the parts there  (hopefully). I think carrying spares for the rest of the journey is then the best and of coursr cheapest option. But if it continues to be a problem we have a stopover with friends in Baku so could get a new hub sent there. This would set us up nicely for the Pamir.
As for the full strip down rather than adjusting, I didn't have much choice as the bike shop we took it to in Ukraine insisted on going it for us, right there on the pavement!

The joys of touring, always something to worry about!

Thanks again and happy pedalling.

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