Author Topic: Seatpost selection in presence of severe restrictions -- HELP!  (Read 3814 times)

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4128
Seatpost selection in presence of severe restrictions -- HELP!
« on: February 25, 2014, 06:27:02 PM »
I'm fed up with the wretched Brooks saddle clip not holding its setting and shifting every time I hit a big pothole at speed. I've tried some aftermarket clips and they're no better. This, for younger cyclists, is a clip that bolts first to the saddle rails, and then about a plain-top seat post, not at all like the micro adjustable rail grabber that you have on your bike. But it is possible to change from the Brooks clip to the micro adjustable rail grabber type if you have the right adapter. An added complication is that my beloved Brooks B73 doesn't just have one rail per side but two, so the better-made Brompton Pentaclip, which solves the problem for Brooks single-rail saddles without having to change seat posts, cannot be used.

The upshot is that I need a new seat post. Some crucial parameters:

* Seatpost diameter 26.4mm -- If it isn't available in 26.4mm or smaller diameter, don't even mention it.

* Vertical space available between top of seat tube and lowest rail of Brooks B73 is c60mm.

* Because there are two rails, a very special adapter is required. This fits between the two rails of the saddle to each side and then the microadjustor at the top of a modern seat post fits around the rails, fooled into believing it is dealing with one rail. You just need longer adjustment bolts. I have such an adapter, kindly given to me by Julian (our Julk). Any seat post I buy must work with this adapter because there isn't a huge choice of adaptors, and I'm in Ireland where delivery is expensive.

* Zero layback is essential. I already lost several millimeters of height on the handlebars when I changed to n'lock stem and bars, and don't want to lean forward further; there is zero latitude for anything but a zero layback seat post.

* Suspension seat post, if it fits the vertical height limit of 60mm to the lowest rail, preferred; otherwise good quality solid with twin screw micro adjustment preferred. The Airwings suspended posts are fitted as optional equipment by the makers of my bike but the smallest of them wants 98mm of vertical space.

* Prefer black but will take silver if I have to.

This is just about everything I've found...

Cheap generic, but the right size: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/brand-x-inline-6061-seatpost/rp-prod6257

Good quality and can be used with a shim or perhaps found elsewhere in there right size:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/thomson-elite-inline-seatpost/rp-prod6066

Does anybody have anything to add, preferably suspended?

JimK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1652
    • Interdependent Science
Re: Seatpost selection in presence of severe restrictions -- HELP!
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2014, 06:50:22 PM »
Here's a possibility, but not enough info to know for sure. Might be worth an email inquiry:

http://www.wallbike.com/kalloy/handlebars-stems-seatposts/kalloy-plain-top-seatpost

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Seatpost selection in presence of severe restrictions -- HELP!
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2014, 07:22:16 PM »
Here's a possibility, but not enough info to know for sure. Might be worth an email inquiry:

http://www.wallbike.com/kalloy/handlebars-stems-seatposts/kalloy-plain-top-seatpost

Thanks for the quick replay, Jim. I already have a plain seat post like that one. What I want is a micro-adjustable seat post.

JimK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1652
    • Interdependent Science
Re: Seatpost selection in presence of severe restrictions -- HELP!
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014, 08:15:57 PM »
oops, sorry, got to read the fine print!

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Seatpost selection in presence of severe restrictions -- HELP!
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2014, 09:04:49 PM »
Hi Andre!

My, what a "thorny" (sorry!) problem; the requirements seem to preclude a ready solution. Still, let's look carefully at your requirements...
Quote
* Seatpost diameter 26.4mm -- If it isn't available in 26.4mm or smaller diameter, don't even mention it.
I looked to see if a 25.4 (used with a shim) might open up possibilities, but it doesn't seem to.
Quote
* Vertical space available between top of seat tube and lowest rail of Brooks B73 is c60mm.
Ah! This, partly because of the dual-rail configuration taking up some of the available vertical space. Andre, is there a single-railed version of your B73 that would suit? If so, it might then allow fitting of a sus-post of some sort, but I'm not sure the net effect would put you ahead of where you are now in terms of comfort. Otherwise, I think you'll have to decide between the dual-railed B73 (with its own suspension) /or/ a suspension post and single-railed saddle. Unfortunately, telescopic sus-posts aren't as responsive as parallelogram models due to stiction, but I don't see a parallelogram model as possible given your other requirements. Para' units all have layback and the movement is down-and-back rather than vertical.
Quote
* Because there are two rails, a very special adapter is required. This fits between the two rails of the saddle to each side and then the microadjustor at the top of a modern seat post fits around the rails, fooled into believing it is dealing with one rail. You just need longer adjustment bolts. I have such an adapter, kindly given to me by Julian (our Julk). Any seat post I buy must work with this adapter because there isn't a huge choice of adaptors, and I'm in Ireland where delivery is expensive.
I think you might run into trouble fitting this "clamp sandwich" adapter to a zero-layback 'post. As I recall, it was originally designed by Joe Breeze to fit an SR La Prade single-bolt 'post.
Quote
* Zero layback is essential. I already lost several millimeters of height on the handlebars when I changed to n'lock stem and bars, and don't want to lean forward further; there is zero latitude for anything but a zero layback seat post.
<nods> I understand your requirements here, but I also kinda quail a little when saddle position is used to accommodate reach rather than position behind the bottom bracket. Andre, at one time, there were adapters (SJS Cycles had them) to allow *more* layback on zero layback 'posts. These could be reversed on layback posts to create a virtual zero-layback configuration, thus meeting your needs with a more conventional option, but..why? There are more elegant solutions, like getting a zero-'back post that suits to begin with.
Quote
* Suspension seat post, if it fits the vertical height limit of 60mm to the lowest rail, preferred; otherwise good quality solid with twin screw micro adjustment preferred. The Airwings suspended posts are fitted as optional equipment by the makers of my bike but the smallest of them wants 98mm of vertical space.
I just can't think of an *effective* sus-post that will fit this space with no layback. I've attached a photo of the hinged elastomer puck-type sus-post I have for the captain's saddle on my tandem. It basically tilts, doesn't do much except quell road buzz, and fits in minimal space (necessary to accommodate the adjustable stoker's stem I made)...but has layback.
Quote
* Prefer black but will take silver if I have to.
Color will be secondary to function here, methinks.

Andre, looking at your shortlist of options, I think you've already found the most likely candidates to fit your needs. I would caution, however, that you may need to mill Julian's adapter to work with either (the fore-aft bolt positioning might not clear the "sandwich" adapter). Andre, it really isn't that hard to build the 'post you want. A local framebuilder or machine shop could whomp up something pretty quickly or mill a better, more solid and secure alternative to the Brooks clamp for a straight 'post. I've attached a couple more photos showing an alternative I made to address my Folder's unique needs that is both light and solid as a rock.

EDIT: Thinking further, would your present Brooks clamp do if the clamp halves were simply brazed or welded in your preferred position/angle so it wouldn't shift? If so, it would be a matter of seconds to accomplish and cost less than USD$10 at any weldor's.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 09:41:58 PM by Danneaux »

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Seatpost selection in presence of severe restrictions -- HELP!
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2014, 10:42:26 PM »
Dan, the seat post isn't being used to rearrange the virtual top tube length. The bike is designed from the ground up to use a zero layback seat post, because the Brooks type seat clamp is fitted as standard even to other saddles. So my insistence on zero layback is merely to preserve the present 68 degree geometry, which fixes my knees right over the pedals. You can stop quailing.

The adapter Julian gave me isn't a Breezer. It's a glass-filled nylon unit of the open frame type, big enough through the middle to fit a twin-bolt micro-head.

25.0 or 25.4 will both fit, with readily available shims.

There's a single-rail near-relative of the B73 called the B72, which has long rails curled into a helix at the back. But the whole point is not to give up a saddle I've over 7000km invested in. I'm not starting with a new Brooks just to suit a seat post. Period. I like the one I have.

It looks like I have a choice of two seat posts. Just as well my heart wasn't set on a suspension seatpost... But either of those seat posts will solve my problem.

(Pity the Nitto S84 has a layback; that's a really attractive seat post with its lugs.)

I thought of getting a better quality clip made up for the Brooks twin-rail saddle but the engineering shop I used has closed... Sic transit gloria.

Thanks for your comprehensive thoughts, always useful to clarifying everyone else's thinking.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 12:43:07 PM by Andre Jute »

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Seatpost selection in presence of severe restrictions -- HELP!
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 11:34:37 PM »
Ah! All is clear now, Andre; thanks.

Well...that puts you down to a choice of the two. Hmm. Doesn't the lovely Utopia Kranich really deserve a Thomson Elite?  :D

On the other hand, it does have lettering on it, which the economy 'post does not, and they are identical in actual function. I have several posts on hand that appear identical to the Brand X, sold under Pyramid name (J&B Wholesale's house brand). They're very nicely made, surprisingly high in quality and true to diameter throughout their length (unlike some inexpensive and a few upper-price posts).

Decisions!

Do let us know how you come out.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 11:41:04 PM by Danneaux »

julk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 976
Re: Seatpost selection in presence of severe restrictions -- HELP!
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2014, 09:15:16 AM »
Andre,
Pity about the Nitto S84 not being suitable, I use one and it looks splendid.

I would suggest that the Thomson seatpost is the better choice.
I have a Thomson stem and it is an impressive piece of engineering, the bolts are not stainless so that a stronger grade of steel can be used!
Julian.

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Seatpost selection in presence of severe restrictions -- HELP!
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2014, 12:52:12 PM »
Andre,
Pity about the Nitto S84 not being suitable, I use one and it looks splendid.

I would suggest that the Thomson seatpost is the better choice.
I have a Thomson stem and it is an impressive piece of engineering, the bolts are not stainless so that a stronger grade of steel can be used!
Julian.

I started on this journey because I wanted an S84 but I'd have to buy a smaller frame to make it work, and that would upset a geometry that suits my back fine... It's putting the cart before the horse to change the frame, or anything else, to make a seat post work.

Thomson gets a lot of votes from experienced cyclists.

Dan, Chainreactioncycles' Brand X is very likely a Kalloy by another name. I happen to like Kalloy stuff as plain, well-engineered, zero-boutique-frippery stuff; it doesn't pretend to be anything it isn't. But you're right, my Kranich does deserve components with breeding. If only Thomson didn't insist on painting their name on the thing...