Author Topic: Thorn introduce their new 4-arm 104BCD chainsets for square-taper BB  (Read 7524 times)

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Hi All!

Thorn have now introduced a nice-looking 4-arm crankset/chainset. Looking much like a Shimano Alivio, it has a black-anodized bead-blasted finish and uses the MTB standard 4-arm 104/64BCD.

B'sides looking attractive, these have some additional tweaks like the orientation of the square taper. It is set square to the ends rather than in a "diamond" orientation and available in arm lengths from 150mm (!) to 175mm. Smaller riders are really well-served here, as sizes also include 155mm, 160mm, 165mm and the standard 170mm. The chainrings are made from long-wearing 7075 alu, and Thorn take care to note you need a 110mm bottom bracket to achieve a Rohloff-standard 54mm chainline with the chainring in the middle position, allowing for the same chainline with or without a bashguard in the outer position.

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainsets-mtb-dept889_pg1/#filterkey=brand&brand=THORN&page=1&page=1

Might open up some options for folks who prefer 104BCD 'rings *without* an external-bearing bottom bracket; these take a standard square-taper internal BB.

Best,

Dan.

Matt2matt2002

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
Re: Thorn introduce their new 4-arm 104BCD chainsets for square-taper BB
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2013, 11:30:11 PM »
Does this mean you can run these chain rings with a Rholoff hub?
I was thinking about this idea as I slogged up a hill 2 days ago in second gear. I was riding with just a bar bag and 2 flasks of drink. Heaven knows how I would have managed with full panniers fore and aft?
If only I had a couple of front rings to play with, it would have been a breeze.

If these front rings are not possible, then is there any reason not to investigate this idea?

Since joining this forum I have realised that my own "new" ideas are always miles from being new in any way!
Most folk have been there before me.
But I would, as always, appreciate comments.
Matt
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Thorn introduce their new 4-arm 104BCD chainsets for square-taper BB
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2013, 12:09:57 AM »
Hi Matt!

Here is how it all lays out...

• Cranks are made for internal square-taper bottom brackets or for external-bearing bottom brackets.

• Typically, the cranks often paired with Rohloff drivetrains have BCD/PCD measurements (distance between chainring bolts) of 110mm (and five arms) or 104BCD/PCD (and four arms).

• Chainrings are available in a variety of sizes to fit cranks for either BB, BCD/PCD, and either number of arms.

The actual combination of chainring and cog depends a) on your needs and b) on the minimum ratios approved by Rohloff to avoid overstressing their hubs. Rohloff revised their allowable ratios only recently (about 10 months ago).

I am currently running the minimum Rohloff-approved combo, consisting of a 36T chainring and a 17T cog. I am using a 104BCD 4-arm crank and external bottom bracket. This same chainring would fit the new Thorn-branded 104BCD crank which uses an internal BB, a design which often results in greater bearing durability. 36T chainrings are also widely available to fit 110BCD 5-arm cranks.

I have been very pleased with the 36x17 combo for my needs because it offers a low gear of 15 gear-inches, which I find very useful for carrying very heavy loads up very steep hills. I can pedal that low gear with no problem, but sometimes people have trouble balancing at the low speeds that result from such a low gear (5-5.5mph/8-9kph @ my 120RPM, I can balance fine even at 2.5mph/4kph, YMMV). The high gear of "only" 80 gear-inches is fine for my needs because my bad knees won't pull higher gears without causing me pain and injury. As with the low gear, my fast-light "hummingbird" 110-120RPM pedaling cadence allows for a top speed of 26-28mph/42-48kph. While this is plenty fast for me while pedaling -- I simply coast downhill if my speed exceeds that -- many people would find an 80 gear-inch high to be too low, causing them to "spin out".

Rohloff hubs have a gear range of 526%. Through different combinations of chainring and cog, you can bias it toward a low gear range for climbing, medium gear range for all-'round use, or a high gear range if you're a demon for speed. Regardless, the spread between low and high gears remains the same at 526%. Given my intended use of the Nomad and where I ride it (and the state of my knees, my preferred fast cadence, steep hills, and often very heavy expedition loads including lots of water and food stores), it made sense for me to bias the range to the lowest possible. I often find myself riding in Gear 1 or Gear 2 under such circumstances.

Not everyone has the same needs or would be happy with the same choice. That said, I agree with Andy Blance: It sure is nice to have low gears available for use when you're already tired at the end of a long day and come up against a very steep hill; it makes touring life so much easier and more pleasurable to have those "bailout" gear just a wrist-twist away

All the best,

Dan.

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Thorn introduce their new 4-arm 104BCD chainsets for square-taper BB
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 02:48:30 AM »
Quote
If only I had a couple of front rings to play with, it would have been a breeze.
Oh! Matt!

On re-reading your post, I realize I may have misunderstood your question.

On a second look-see, it now seems you're asking if it is viable to mount two chainrings to your crankset and choose between them to adjust your Rohloff's overall range as need be.

If that is the case, it is the same scheme member mickeg has proposed for his own use, lengthening or shortening the chain as needed to accommodate the larger or smaller chainring as terrain and touring conditions demand. This is indeed a viable approach if you find yourself in mountainous terrain for awhile after spending time riding flatter ground and is a clever approach to "widening" the Rohoff's range when/as needed while steering clear of warranty issues. The changeover could be accomplished quickly and with little fuss provided a pre-sized section of chain and a couple quick-links are part of your touring kit.

Before I got my own Rohloff-equipped Nomad Mk2, I pondered the viability of using two chainrings with a front derailleur and rear tensioner to make a very nice 28-sp half-step Rohloff. It would have worked but the tensioner would have added friction, shortened chain life, and added to maintenance. Andre gently corrected me and I soon saw the wisdom of going without a tensioner and front changer. Before that, Pavel pondered the use of pre-sized chain sections to accommodate changes in gearing as well.

So, yes, mounting and choosing two chainrings is indeed possible with one drawback: Chainline would no longer be ideal, but through careful selection of BB spindle length, the deviation could be split (i.e. a 54mm chainline through the center of the crank's chainring mounting spider). Thorn's generously long chainstays would help minimize chainline problems, but I really think a better choice would be to simply choose your chainring/cog combo to accommodate the majority of your needs. If hills are a considerable problem, then you will have to compromise a bit on top end. Alternatively, you could just keep a spare chainring on hand at home and fit it and resize the chain prior to a hilly tour.

All the best,

Dan. (..who doesn't mind backing up and having another go if he misunderstands a question)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 07:47:06 AM by Danneaux »

Andybg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 829
Re: Thorn introduce their new 4-arm 104BCD chainsets for square-taper BB
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 05:38:08 AM »
Hi Matt

I think you a running a 38/17 combo on your Tour which is the same combination as I have on mine which gives me a good combination having low enough gears for any hill and still comfortable to spin it up to 45kmh.

If I was using the bike to tour day after day I would probably go down to Dan's 36/17 and sacrifice a bit at the top end but giving me a usefull crawler gear. The only downside to this would be losing the oppertunity to run a chainglider as they do not (yet?) supply one for this combination.

Andy

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8281
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Thorn introduce their new 4-arm 104BCD chainsets for square-taper BB
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 07:37:36 AM »
Quote
The only downside to this would be losing the oppertunity to run a chainglider as they do not (yet?) supply one for this combination.
Correct, Andy; fingers fervently crossed for Hebie to soon introduce a 36T Chainglider...

All the best,

Dan.

il padrone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1331
Re: Thorn introduce their new 4-arm 104BCD chainsets for square-taper BB
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2013, 08:10:31 AM »
If that is the case, it is the same scheme member mickeg has proposed for his own use, lengthening or shortening the chain as needed to accommodate the larger or smaller chainring as terrain and touring conditions demand. This is indeed a viable approach if you find yourself in mountainous terrain for awhile after spending time riding flatter ground and is a clever approach to "widening" the Rohoff's range when/as needed while steering clear of warranty issues. The changeover could be accomplished quickly and with little fuss provided a pre-sized section of chain and a couple quick-links are part of your touring kit.

One-up, one-down. No need to shorten or lengthen the chain at all. Eg. 38-16 and 36-18  will use the same chain length.

Mind you that may entail carrying a chain-whip, large spanner and Rohloff tool, plus allowing for any differential wear in the sprockets and chainrings.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 08:13:16 AM by il padrone »

rualexander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
Re: Thorn introduce their new 4-arm 104BCD chainsets for square-taper BB
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2013, 04:18:23 PM »
One-up, one-down. No need to shorten or lengthen the chain at all. Eg. 38-16 and 36-18  will use the same chain length.

Mind you that may entail carrying a chain-whip, large spanner and Rohloff tool, plus allowing for any differential wear in the sprockets and chainrings.
I don't think there is an 18 tooth Rohloff sprocket available.

il padrone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1331
Re: Thorn introduce their new 4-arm 104BCD chainsets for square-taper BB
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2013, 10:11:12 PM »
OK, will work the same with 15 and 17, 13 and 15, or 17 and 19 (SJS make a 19t for Rohloff).