Author Topic: New Cable Outers for Shifting  (Read 5227 times)

MacB

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New Cable Outers for Shifting
« on: June 26, 2012, 10:04:05 AM »
Hi, I know this topic has been done a lot but things do move on, the new lightweight twist shifter, experiences, etc. So I have the new style shifter and an externally click box and I have plenty of spare 1.2mm inner wires but I want to ensure I have the right spare outer cable. I was wondering if anyone had tried a compressionless brake cable outer such as Goodridge?

It's a matter of convenience, I have a reel of bog standard gear outer and one of Goodridge brake outer in the garage(9 bikes to maintain). If the Goodridge is ok for the Rohloff then I don't need anything else, if it isn't then I need to choose another style of brake outer just for the Rohloff cable changes.

Any experiences of using extra stiff brake outers?

Andre Jute

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Re: New Cable Outers for Shifting
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2012, 12:58:21 PM »
It's a matter of convenience, I have a reel of bog standard gear outer and one of Goodridge brake outer in the garage(9 bikes to maintain). If the Goodridge is ok for the Rohloff then I don't need anything else, if it isn't then I need to choose another style of brake outer just for the Rohloff cable changes.

Any experiences of using extra stiff brake outers?

I have the cables my bike came with, so no experience of changing them but I'll make two points:

1.A Rohloff gearchange is accomplished by pulling two cables. There is no pushing, so the stiffness of the outer is nearly irrelevant.

2. I'll let Chalo Colina and Pete Cresswell make the other point. These exchanges appeared on rec. bicycles.tech some years ago:

***
From Chalo Colina:

Andre Jute wrote:
>
> While I'm ordering service/spare parts and tools for the first annual
> service of my Utopia Kranich and its Rohloff gearbox at about 2000km,
> do I need to order spare gear cables for my EXT klickbox, either for a
> routine swap-out or to keep on standby for a likely breakage. I note
> that Andy Blance of Thorn reckons that even the dicier internal cable
> setup is very unlikely to break before 10K.
>
> Blance also says the EXT gearbox cable on the Rohloff is standard
> dimension normal brake cable. (The internal cable is apparently
> thinner.) Has anyone used standard brake cable, outer and lining
> instead of the Rohloff's own supply? With what result?

Rohloff's external clickbox and shifter are wired with two totally
normal 1.2mm shift cables.  You don't have to stock special spares for
that job.  Depending on your setup, you might need tandem-length
cables.  A quick survey with a tailor's tape measure will tell you if
you need to keep some extra-long cables handy; normal shift cables are
2.0m long.

Rewiring a Rohloff shifter is an _odious_ job, though.  You have to
get a whole series of operations exactly right, in the right order,
before you fasten the cables down.  The cables are fastened with grub
screws, and once tightened even lightly, they can't be reinserted into
the clickbox drum again.  So if you forget any detail in the cable
component stack or in the routing of the cable, you have to begin
again with new cables, starting at the shifter spool.  I think the
most times I have had to do this at one sitting is four times in a
row.  (It's not just outright mistakes that can stop the show.  If it
doesn't feel quite right and you want to try changing something, you
have to start over from step one.)

When the time comes to replace Rohloff shift cables, have every single
bit ready in advance.  Have every tool available that you might want--
bench grinder, fourth hand, precision ruler, whatever.  Have the
printed instruction sheet in hand and refer to it at every step.  Do
not reuse a single piece of housing or ferrule, lest this seemingly
sensible and economical measure require you to repeat the job.

But hey-- at least it uses standard cables.

Chalo

***

From PeteCresswell:

Per Andre Jute:

>Thanks, Chalo. I've saved this post. From the video on the Rohloff
>site I thought it looked like a tricky job -- and remembered that
>before this you described it as "odious"

I'll concur with "odious".
For me the recurring problem was getting the length of cable that ?protrudes past the housing exactly right.
To that end, I cut a piece of housing to exactly the right ?length.
I've done several replacements with the housing piece as my ?length guide and haven't had any problems.
But I still have a half-dozen shift cables ready just in case ?when I start the job.

***

Hope that helps.

Andre Jute

MacB

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Re: New Cable Outers for Shifting
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 05:03:38 PM »
Thanks Andre, that does help in the general sense but I had already taken precautions in this area. I paid a mechanic to set it up for me initially and train me how to do it at the same time, I took copious notes while this was going on. Thankfully it does all seem to be much more straightforward via external clickbox and particularly the new version shifter.

I was really just curious if the outer reel I had in the garage would be ok as it's fairly stiff. I don't think it will assist the Rohloff shifting I was more concerned that it may hinder in some way.....thanks....Al

julk

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Re: New Cable Outers for Shifting
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 05:50:34 PM »
I have a memory of a post or article by one of the Thorn team where they said that using brake outer for the Rohloff gear cables resulted in them lasting longer.
This was mostly due to the flexibility of brake outers coping with the bending at the front of the bike in the frame guides as the handlebars turned from side to side.

it was also said that a brake outer failure, when it went, was more graceful than the incompressible gear outer which failed suddenly if it went.

Big_Jim

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Re: New Cable Outers for Shifting
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2013, 09:22:17 PM »
Sorry if this has been asked before...

Has anyone any experience of using the following?

http://www.middleburn.co.uk/access_cableoilers.php

I "think" I'm having to use a little more force than I used to, to rotate the shifter. Again I "think" this may be due to the outer becoming kinked and/or sprained after a particularly embarrassing crash in some bushes last winter. I should say the hub is mounted on a mountain bike - my riding is not too bad on road.

My plan is to renew the cables with fractionally shorter outers (say 100mm less than currently) to avoid the huge bowing length of cable which caught up in the crash last year, and to fit the in line oilers approx midway down so I can lube the inner wires while in service.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Jim

Danneaux

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Re: New Cable Outers for Shifting
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2013, 11:23:54 PM »
Hi Jim!

Given you can remember and pinpoint a cause, the crash into bushes (no worries, has happened to most of us at one time or another) is the most likely cause. It doesn't take much of a kink in the housing to increase friction.

If you're running the EX (external) shift box, that can be a source of friction. Rohloff recommend periodic greasing at the hub-mounted shifter, but many people overlook it. I pumped mine full of Phil Wood grease and it had the happy side effect of easing shift effort a bit, so perhaps that might help if your Rohloff hub uses this cable routing.

As for the cable oilers, they seem well-received among the MTB crowd, and certainly is is nice to flush out any water and such with fresh grease. However, if you're running an EX box *and* the cables run in housings all the way to the hub, then they might not be necessary. I think I might pass now, but in the past I might have gone for it. See: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2676.msg36717#msg36717 If your bike has some exposed cable runs, then I think the cable oilers make a great deal of sense; these are very nice indeed -- you just roll off the o-ring, lube, roll it back, and you're done. Middleburn make good stuff, so I would expect them to use ozone- and UV-resistant rubber in the o-rings. I have not used these, but I have found it helps to minimize breaks in the cable housing. I think whatever friction these might add would be offset by the increased lubrication if you decide to go that route. I'm largely a "dry cable in Teflon liner" man myself, after many years lubing them.

Once I've settled on a routing/shifter placement, I always like to make my cable housings as short and direct as possible while allowing the front fork to turn freely lock-to-lock. That way, there's no extra length yet there's no binding. It is always good to check to make sure the cable housing can't catch on something as the fork turns...say the end of a Thorn Accessory T-bar. All this can be addressed with careful routing and some forethought, though I have been caught out on a couple of occasions when I missed seeing something that could snag the cable housing somewhere along the way. As a suggestion, when you're done, be sure to put some anti-rub tape on to protect the paint, as the cables may touch the frame in a new place compared to the old routing.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Dan.