Nomad or something else?

[Joe B]

Some reading this may recall my post a few days ago where I mentioned that I'd spent the money previously saved for a Raven on a used Rohloff equipped Challenge Seiran recumbent.
As much as I enjoy riding this bike it sure ain't the versatile all rounder that the Raven could have been. It is terrific on the open road but less than ideal in town or for mixed terrain touring/day rides. Where I particularly miss the versatility that the Raven would have provided is when I'm out exploring the lanes, forestry tracks and trails around the Northumbria on the English/Scottish border country near where I live.

Currently for such rides I use my old, much modified mid 90's Trek mountain bike or our Raven Twin Tandem if I'm out with the kids.
I can't afford another rohloff equipped bike but maybe I could still have one if a share a single set of wheels between two bikes.

So that leads to two separate options
1.   Buy a Nomad frame and have it share the tandems wheels.
This would make a brilliant expedition bike, but I don't really need one of those. Although it could easily handle the tracks the Nomad frame is probably over kill for the sort of short tours that I do. I think that I could live with the Nomad frame if I was using a more spiritedly set of wheels but tandem' s wheels are rather more heavily built than that.

2.   So use the recumbents wheels instead.
These are a decent set of mid weight 559's and are much lighter than those on the tandem. However as the recumbent is disk braked I'll have to rule out another Thorn frame. The next best choice to share wheels with the recumbent is probably a 26" Disk Trucker. It could share the Rohloff/dyno hub wheels with the bent which along with all the other components laying about my workshop will save me a fortune.

I think that the Raven is definitely a superior bike to the Disk Trucker. Apart from anything else I'm an ardent supporter of the fact that a disk fork can never be as plesent to ride as a non-disk fork. That said I will be using 2" Duremes which will compensate some what.

This is something that really hit home last year when I test rode  Spa Cycles 700c adventure tourer. I had very high opinions of this bike until I actually rode it and found the front end to be dreadful. One of the guys from Spa agreed but said that they had to go with the market.

Anyway I'm scheduled to be spending much of next year away at sea so I'll be mulling over this conundrum for some months and would be very receptive to hear others on the forum give their own two pence/cents.

[mickeg]

The Nomad Mk II can use a disc on back, but not front.  Front wheels that can take rim brakes do not cost very much on the used market if you needed to buy one.  I do not know what teh Raven can take regarding brakes.

Look at your Rohloff(s) and see how the shift cables run.  The Nomad is best used with a EX shifter box that hangs below the hub but I think that the Raven uses the other shifter cable setup that goes up the seat stay.  If you get a Thorn, you probably would be best off getting the frame that works best for your Rohloff shifting setup.

If you go with a LHT, that means a long torque arm for the Rohloff.

[Danneaux]

Hi Joe!

A few things jump out at me from your note...

So that leads to two separate options
1.   Buy a Nomad frame and have it share the tandems wheels.

If you swap-in the disc-equipped Rohloff wheel from the recumbent, the Nomad has disc mounts on the lower-left seatstay and could be made compatible pretty readily. Lighter wheels will definitely work with a Nomad frame and will render a more lively ride thanks to reduced rotating weight. Of course, the bike will not have the same heavy-duty characteristics it would with more robust wheels, but it would definitely be enjoyable. I occasionally rob the 26x1.5 road slicks from my own tandem and fit them to the Nomad when I want a livelier feel (and slightly different handling due to the change in trail caused by the smaller diameter tires).

Similarly, you could swap-over the Rohloff wheel from the tandem, as you are pondering. Either could work. A third option would be to do a swap initially, then purchase a Rohloff-equipped rear wheel -- perhaps used, from German eBay -- and then sell-on the intact recumbent if it proves to miss the mark over time.

Speaking as someone who has owned a Sherpa and ridden a RavenTour extensively -- and who currently owns a Nomad -- I can say the Nomad would be a "lot" of bike for non-expedition use. It is ideal for my needs and excels at the task, but it is heavier than Thorn's lighter (and lighter-duty) offerings for general use. That said, I did ride my Nomad for a happy 200km yesterday. Neither of us are the worse for wear. If you go with the Nomad frame, then I would suggest considering a suspension seatpost for more comfortable riding while unladen if you pursue rough tracks, cobbles, and logging roads.

If you do later decide a Raven is the bike for you, then take a close look at the Rohloff cabling. Ravens use internal shift cabling, while the Nomad uses external (as does your recumbent, if it is disc-equipped). It is possible to configure a Raven/Raven Tour for use with an EX(ternal) shift-box, but would require fitting Rohloff's own cable stops/guides. At least one of our Forum members (rualexander) converted his Sherpa and did such a nice job of it, the result appears almost OEM.

Joe, will you have Internet access while aboard ship? Will you be checking the Forum from port? 

Best,

Dan.

[EDIT: My response is nearly the same as mickeg, who posted just before I hit SEND.  ]

[il padrone]

The Nomad Mk II can use a disc on back, but not front.  Front wheels that can take rim brakes do not cost very much on the used market if you needed to buy one.  I do not know what teh Raven can take regarding brakes.

Thorn Nomad MkII has been designed to take an 80mm suspension fork. This may be a disc-brake fork.

Look at your Rohloff(s) and see how the shift cables run.  The Nomad is best used with a EX shifter box that hangs below the hub but I think that the Raven uses the other shifter cable setup that goes up the seat stay.  If you get a Thorn, you probably would be best off getting the frame that works best for your Rohloff shifting setup.

This photo of a Raven Sport Tour would seem to indicate that the deep vertical drop-outs may be enough for use of an EXbox

[mickeg]

il padrone mentioned the 80mm suspension fork as an option for a Nomad to use a disc on the front, I have used a 100mm suspension fork on my Nomad Mk II, works fine and handles well.  But I stuck with rim brakes all around.  I primarily use the solid fork, but when I used my Nomad as a mountain bike I switched it over to suspension fork and used a suspension seatpost.

If you decide to go the suspension fork route, it is getting harder every year to find quality suspension forks that use rim brakes, so if you thought you might want a fork that can do both options for braking, they are getting more rare.

When you mentioned the disc, I assumed you had rims that do not have a rim braking surface.  But, you might want to look at your wheels, a lot of wheels have been built up with capability for either braking method.

...

[EDIT: My response is nearly the same as mickeg, who posted just before I hit SEND.  ]

Beat you by 15 seconds.  But you have more detail.

[David Simpson]

The Nomad Mk II can use a disc on back, but not front.

If you want to use a front disc brake on the Nomad with a fixed (non-suspension) fork, you can use the Surly Big Dummy fork. It has similar dimensions to the Thorn Nomad fork, and it has mounts for a disc brake. However it does not have mounts for a front rack. And of course the steerer is not as long as that of the Nomad fork.

I originally had the Big Dummy fork on my Nomad, because I wanted front and rear disc brakes. (I commute in the rain a lot.) Later, I wanted a front rack, so I installed the original Nomad fork and use a rim V-brake on the front. My wet-weather braking is still excellent, due to the disc brake on the rear, and I have front and rear racks.

The style of the Big Dummy fork is very different from the Nomad fork, and some people may find it ugly. And the only colour is black. You would also need to buy a crown race, since it doesn't come with one. (The Nomad fork does come with one.)

- Dave

[Joe B]

I’d forgotten about the rear disk mount on the Nomad, using it with a sus fork would allow me to share the recumbent’s wheels with a Nomad.  Dan’s suggestion of sharing the bents  Rohloff wheel with a Nomad and then building another front wheel for a rim braked front is a practically appealing idea too. 

A Raven frame would suit me better for sure but sharing wheels between either of my existing Rohloff bikes and a Raven has it own problems.

The tandems wheels being rim braked would fit fine, however as the tandem uses the EX shift box I couldn’t use the Ravens cable guides. Instead I’d have to cable tie the shift cables to run down under the bottom-bracket in a similar fashion to the Raven Step-Through frame. I don’t see that as a major issue so it comes down to what would make the best all-rounder: The heavy tandem wheels on a raven frame or the lighter recumbent wheels on a nomad frame. 

A Disk Trucker remains an alternative choice. Having looked over a couple of these when meeting them on the road they do seem to be fine bikes. Not in my opinion as nice to ride as a Raven or as robust as a Nomad but a good bike that could share the recumbents wheels. It would need a chain tensioner but not a torque arm as the left dropout is now Rohloff compatible. 

Another interesting option would be having a frame built to fulfil my requirements while sharing wheels with the bent. Bob Jackson and Woodrup are both relatively local to me and make superb bikes. The obvious flaw though is that whole point of this exercise is to get another Rohloff bike ‘on the cheep’.   

Thanks for all of the input so far folks,
Joe

[Matt2matt2002]

If weight carrying is an issue then I can vouch for the Raven

It performed perfectly over very rough n tough roads, fully loaded during the summer.

I have only riden a Nomad briefly but it had made me wonder what kind of roads they are built for!
Pot holed war torn goat tracks?

Each to there own if course. But weight was not a frame issue on the Raven.

[il padrone]

The tandems wheels being rim braked would fit fine, however as the tandem uses the EX shift box I couldn’t use the Ravens cable guides. Instead I’d have to cable tie the shift cables to run down under the bottom-bracket in a similar fashion to the Raven Step-Through frame.

Rohloff zip-clamp plastic dual cable-guides. Like a cable-tie with the guides built-in.

[mickeg]

...
I have only riden a Nomad briefly but it had made me wonder what kind of roads they are built for!
Pot holed war torn goat tracks?
...

Yup.

[il padrone]

...
I have only riden a Nomad briefly but it had made me wonder what kind of roads they are built for!
Pot holed war torn goat tracks?
...

A bit of that, but it is also my commuter and I love it for the versatility. You get used to the extra weight.

[Matt2matt2002]

 
That first picture looks like you have 5 folk sitting on it!