Airless Bicycle Tyre

[revelo]

BTW, I'm 20K or more away from my last puncture, ever since I changed to Schwalbe banded tyres, first Marathon Plus (and the Bontrager workalike), then Big Apples Liteskins. This new tyre is therefore a solution in search of a problem that Schwalbe, a brand with street cred, has already beaten conclusively. The developers should put their minds in gear and first define the problem because right now they are in fantasy-land.
Andre Jute

Schwalbe has NOT beaten the the problem conclusively, but they are good tires (and what I use). Goathead thorns will penetrate the protection belt easily. I've never tried the marathon Plus, but I doubt it is thick enough. What will defeat most goat-head thorns is heavy thorn tubes (about 580g each) inside Schwalbe belted tires. But these thick tubes give a very sluggish ride and are a sub-optimal solution. I have a whole page devoted to this subject, which probably also applies to African thorns:
http://frankrevelo.com/hiking/biking_flatprevention.htm

If you really think your current setup is flat-proof, take a sharp sewing machine needle gripped by pliers and slam it against the tire and see what happens.

I haven't had any flats recently, but I certainly don't consider myself immune to them. Even with the best setup, a flat can occur at any time if there is air in the tires. Even thick steel-belted automobile tires get occasional flats.

[Danneaux]

I've never tried the marathon Plus...

Frank, it might be worth a try someday. When I used the 700C version of the Plus in goathead country, I found it worked well at warding off the thorns ("little t"; we want to keep the Thorns) simply because the rubbery filler belt is so thick the spines couldn't reach all the way through to puncture the tube -- so long as one didn't lean over too far to the side, as the belt gets thinner away from center. For most use I found they worked remarkably well on blunting goatheads.

The Plus is a heavy tire, and I found weight of the big, thick belt of rubbery blue stuff did compromise the ride and acceleration over Schwalbe's other tires. It might be a better net solution over your current thick tubes and sealant. If you go this route, be aware the thick belt can make for a larger diameter in some sizes, so standover can be reduced marginally and you might have to reset your computer. It can make mudguard clearance less, and this along with the sluggish response is what made me remove my 700C versions.

If you really think your current setup is flat-proof, take a sharp sewing machine needle gripped by pliers and slam it against the tire and see what happens.

Exactly what Schwalbe show in testing in a photo on their site to demonstrate the Plus' puncture -resistance. They say...

This new advance in puncture protection is due to the five millimeter thick Smart Guard puncture protection belt made from special india rubber that in conjunction with the tread and carcass brings the total to almost a centimeter of material between the tube and road. "So strong nothing penetrates", assures Bohle technician Markus Hachmeyer. For example a thumbtack will remain lodged in the rubber and cannot penetrate.

A bit more about the belts here: http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/943

Even with the best setup, a flat can occur at any time if there is air in the tires. Even thick steel-belted automobile tires get occasional flats.

Yep, agreed as to the inevitability. Someday, somewhere, something sharp will have your tires' name on it. The key is reducing the incidence and resultant inconvenience to reasonable levels for oneself, balancing the costs of prevention against the inconvenience of repair.

Best,

Dan. (...who never tires of tire-talk, but feels a little flat when his tires go down)

[revelo]

Aside from a sluggish ride, the Marathon Plus is supposedly very difficult to get on/off, and it doesn't come in a folding version. So if the tire failed for whatever reason, I'd first have a potential problem getting it off, then I'd still have to have a thorn protection plan for whatever type of folding tire I had as a spare. Also, the Marathon Plus doesn't come in 55-559, widest size is 47-559 which is way too narrow for sand. Really bad idea overall.

I do NOT use heavy thorn tubes, though I have examined them and rejected them as another bad idea. I use Marathon Mondials (55-559) and regular tubes optionally filled with 60g of Stan's sealant, as described on my web page. This is considerably lighter than the Marathon plus and almost certainly gives a much better ride. Also, I can also delay putting in the Stans until I actually encounter thorns, so the weight is just 2 x 60g in my baggage, which is trivial.

Al sewing machine needle is a lot longer than a thumbtack and will poke right through that foam layer on the Marathon Plus. A sewing machine needle corresponds to running over a long sharp nail pointing straight upwards. These things happen now and then. Happened to me during my Northern Nevada tour back in Sept/Oct of last year, while pedaling into St George.

[Andre Jute]

Let's just say that for my roads and where I ride, and my riding style, in ten years on Schwalbe I haven't had a puncture. I switched to Schwalbe after spending around 150 quid on new tyres and tubes in a single 20-day period.

You're right, a Marathon Plus is hell to get off, and a nail breaker to get on the rim. I was happy to give them up in favour of the Schwalbe Big Apple Liteskins which go on like a dream between your forefinger and thumb.

Andre Jute

[Danneaux]

You're right, a Marathon Plus is hell to get off, and a nail breaker to get on the rim.

Man! I must have strong fingers...or this explains why I can no longer write legibly by hand. I've always mounted and removed my Marathon Pluses by hand - no levers or aids. Just bunched the beads into the rim well and then pushed the slack to one point on the rim and peeled 'em off/on from there.

All the best,

Dan. (...who now knows what trashed his hands)

[il padrone]

Vittoria Randonneur Cross - my tyre of choice

Still air-filled and rideable (sort of)

[Andre Jute]

Vittoria Randonneur Cross - my tyre of choice

Still air-filled and rideable (sort of)

Wow! That's amazing.

I don't carry a puncture kit at all, and doubt I have one that hasn't dried out. I carry a mobile phone to call a cab company which keeps a van in which my bike fits. (Actually I carry the phone for medical reasons but it sounds better to say its for bicycle emergencies.) Before I switched to Schwalbe I'd carry a tube, but after I switched I gradually gave away all my spares to cyclists with emergencies on the road, and eventually didn't restock, and now all my spares are in 60mm width for my Big Apples, which don't fit anyone else's tyres (and are expensive to give away in the Extra-light version of the tube that I use).

-- Andre Jute

[NZPeterG]

Well I ride Tubeless (no tube in my tyres)
I run with UST Mavic Rims and to little (no tubes) cup of Stan's No Tubes, I do get a thorn in my tyres from time to time (once a year maybe) and the tyre reseals again because of the No Flats sealant.

Pete.......
 

[il padrone]

My first set of Vittoria Randonneur Cross tyres got to 14,000kms without any penetrations when I retired them as the red puncture-resistant layer had begun to show through. In one incident I pulled 11 three-corner-jack thorns out from deep in the tyre  .  My second pair, now on the Thorn Nomad have done about 12,000kms, still no penetrations, and the rear has shown the red so I've swapped it  off. The old front has enough tread still to be able to replace it.

So 26,000 kms, two sets of tyres..... still zero punctures  

Heavy old airless tyres seem pretty pointless to me

[Barry Webber]

Regarding the infallibility of the Marathon Plus puncture "proofness" I can provide the picture below as evidence that it can be breached!



This happened one morning when nearly in work when cycling past a building site.
I was very annoyed that numerous wide car tyres had not picked up this nail prior to it piercing my rear Marathon Plus tyre twice!
There was a load explosion as it blew out!
The side wall exit hole left a 1/4" split in the side wall, I patched the inside wall of the tyre and super glued the outside split and am still using the tyre with no further punctures since.
Overall if you want to avoid punctures the MP is hard to beat but like any other pneumatic tyre it is not 100% unbeatable!  

Barry.

[Danneaux]

Hi Barry!

What rotten luck to find such a thing for a puncture -- and my! what a puncture that is!

I notice your image isn't displaying; the problem is it is linked to the page URL rather than the image URL.

To get the right one, just right-click on the image itself and select "Copy URL" to past into your message between the Insert Image brackets, like so:

It should come up okay now.

All the best,

Dan.

[Barry Webber]

Thanks Dan.
I just sent you a PM requesting help with this and comeback to my post to see you have already remedied my error!!
You are oustanding!!
Thank you for putting me straight,
Best wishes,
Barry.

[Andre Jute]

That's an amazing image, Barry, in one side, out the other. Ouch! I'm so glad you and Dan between you managed to display it.

Actually, though I usually just say Big Apple's, what I actually ride on, because they're softer still, and lighter, are Big Apple Liteskins, the folding sports version with very thin sidewalls... I shall give builders' sites a big berth from now on, go round the back of the the block!

Andre Jute

[Slammin Sammy]

Interesting...

Intrigued by Andre's enthusiasm for the Big Apple (surely inspired by my home town - the one so nice, they named it twice  ), I googled the name, and found BOTH Wiggle and CRC have discontinued the line. I haven't done an exhaustive check, but wonder what caused that?

Slammin! ( )

EDIT - Ignore my musings. I just stumbled across Andre's very considered discussion on the topic only a few posts down.

[Andre Jute]

Interesting...

Intrigued by Andre's enthusiasm for the Big Apple (surely inspired by my home town - the one so nice, they named it twice  ), I googled the name, and found BOTH Wiggle and CRC have discontinued the line. I haven't done an exhaustive check, but wonder what caused that?

Slammin! ( )

EDIT - Ignore my musings. I just stumbled across Andre's very considered discussion on the topic only a few posts down.

CRC still has some of the original Big Apple Liteskin, the one I use, in a Raven/Nomad size. See http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=70854 and quite a few more Big Apples at http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/SearchResults.aspx?Search=Big+Apple

But much of the upheaval you see is just a renaming consequent on rationalization, and there are also new Big Apples coming. Some of the other balloon tires now have the old Big Apple Liteskin carcase, but with a wire bead, so that in effect by reading the catalogue carefully you can get a tyre that is theoretically obsolete, and get it with a choice of treads, and get it in colors (colors in most cases only if you accept the cheapest compound, which I don't think tourers will do, because the other compound is specifically an endurance version). Also, there's been an apparently steep price drop, thought it isn't so easy to compare like with like. See http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=6421.msg38761#msg38761 for an overview. (It may be the article you've already seen, in which case, sorry!).

Andre Jute
Yo, Schwalbe, my bill follows!