Speedhubs in cold weather

[blazius]

This spring, I bought a Rohloff bike that had been on display in a shop for about one year (without being ridden).  I have now ridden the bike for ~1000 km, and expect to ride it for about 2000 km every year, so I'll have yearly oil changes.  But when should I do them?

Where I live the climate is quite wet most of the year, with temperatures dropping down to -15 or -20 C in winter (but often fluctuating up to +5 or +10 for a few days) .  I suppose it would be sensible to change the oil before the winter season, to eliminate any humidity that might have penetrated into the hub before it gets any opportunity to freeze up.  Or is there any other time of year that would be better?

BTW, does anyone have experience with riding a Rohloff in the temperature range described above - are any parts of the mechanism prone to seize/freeze in the cold?  I have ridden Nexus hubs earlier, and they never withstood a Scandinavian winter.  Would it be sensible to dilute the hub oil (with what?), and should any part of the wire or shifter have some kind of winter lube (I think the manual states that these parts should not be lubed...)?

[Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop]

Drop Rohloff an e-mail service@rohloff.de they are really helpful

[stutho]

You need to speak to Magnus Thor (on this list) who has extensive experience of the Rohloff in sub zero conditions (in Iceland). 

I have NO experience of the issues but The Rohloff site does mention a few possible problems in prolonged sub zero conditioning. Namely: the cables can freeze up - unlikely on a Thorn with a continuous cable run + the fact that the Speedhub uses a push pull system on the cable; The twist shift and / or the  external cable box  can freeze up if they have been water penetrated;  Finally the gear oil is only good to -15, below that you need to start diluting with the flush oil.

Like I said at the outset I have NO experience of sub zero. The list above is a list of possibles, in real life I would think the problems are a lot less.

StuTho

[vik]

This spring, I bought a Rohloff bike that had been on display in a shop for about one year (without being ridden).  I have now ridden the bike for ~1000 km, and expect to ride it for about 2000 km every year, so I'll have yearly oil changes.  But when should I do them?

Where I live the climate is quite wet most of the year, with temperatures dropping down to -15 or -20 C in winter (but often fluctuating up to +5 or +10 for a few days) .  I suppose it would be sensible to change the oil before the winter season, to eliminate any humidity that might have penetrated into the hub before it gets any opportunity to freeze up.  Or is there any other time of year that would be better?

BTW, does anyone have experience with riding a Rohloff in the temperature range described above - are any parts of the mechanism prone to seize/freeze in the cold?  I have ridden Nexus hubs earlier, and they never withstood a Scandinavian winter.  Would it be sensible to dilute the hub oil (with what?), and should any part of the wire or shifter have some kind of winter lube (I think the manual states that these parts should not be lubed...)?

If you do some googling about winter snow bike racing those folks talk quite a bit about bike parts and cold conditions.  I know the question of what to do with Rohloff lube at different temps is a topic of discussion.

Personally I'd just wait and see what happens before I would take any particular action.  If you don't have any serious issues it's better to simply run the stock Rohloff oil.

BTW - the service interval for changing oil is 5000kms so you could do it every 2 years if you are riding about 2,000kms/year.  I don't know that Rohloff or anyone else has suggested there is any benefit to more frequent oil changes. Unlike a car motor this oil doesn't get contaminated in the same way due to combustion.

cheers,

Vik

[blazius]

BTW - the service interval for changing oil is 5000kms so you could do it every 2 years if you are riding about 2,000kms/year.  I don't know that Rohloff or anyone else has suggested there is any benefit to more frequent oil changes. Unlike a car motor this oil doesn't get contaminated in the same way due to combustion.

According to page 87 in the English Speedhub manual (http://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/rohloffde/download/beschreibung/speedhub/handbuch/service_2.13.en.pdf) "An oil change should be annually carried out or at least every 5000km.".

[vik]

According to page 87 in the English Speedhub manual (http://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/rohloffde/download/beschreibung/speedhub/handbuch/service_2.13.en.pdf) "An oil change should be annually carried out or at least every 5000km.".

Thanks for pointing out that reference I wasn't aware of it....

[stutho]

Vik,

There is a contamination of sorts.  Any container that is almost sealed and then heat cycled will slowly attract water.  When the container is warmed it will expand - drawing in water vapor.  When the container is cooled a little water vapour will condense out and emulsify with the oil - locking it in.  Multiply this process by 365 warm days and  cool nights and you have the potential for contamination, hence 1 year time limit on the oil change.

The other form of contamination is by metal fragments which is NOT dependent on time but is dependent on mileage hence the 3000 mile stipulation.

   

[blazius]

Reply from Rohloff:

Although the SPEEDHUB oil works fine over a very large temperature range, there is the chance that in extreme circumstances, the oil viscosity could thicken in very cold temperatures. This in turn could lead to shifting problems. If this should happen then simply add a little of our SPEEDHUB cleaning oil to dilute the normal oil a little. The cleaning oil is designed for this very purpose. When carrying out an oil change, the older oil that has got a little thick over time (due to mixing with possible penetrated moisture) has to be thinned with the cleaning oil in order to extract this from the hub with the syringe.

As you correctly noted, there is the chance that moisture could penetrate into the gear-unit, this is due to the fact that as opposed to a regular automobile gear unit, the SPEEDHUB has no top or bottom and so any irregularities in air pressure (caused by - eg. after taking the bicycle out of a cold cellar and out to ride in a 35° heat) must even itself out through either the hollow CC axle or through the specially designed hub seals. As the air escapes it takes with it a small amount of oil and this is what you can sometimes find upon the seals, it is sweat oil and perfectly normal for this type of design. However, air can bring a small amount of oil out of the hub and it can also bring a small amount of moisture into the hub. This is exactly the reason that we advise an annual oil change is made. The SPEEDHUB cannot be damaged by too little oil (there is always enough in the gear-unit clinging to all component surface areas for lubrication purposes), but too much moisture can lead to a poor performance.

There are no components which could be damaged by extreme weather conditions, we have not even received negative info from our sponsored riders about the dry use of our cables in the extreme cold.

With regards to the time that you carry out the oil change, this is a little dependent upon your own personal "high season". If the use of your bicycle is balanced well over the length of the year, then I personally would advise that the oil change be carried out before the winter months. This will guarantee that the oil is its normal viscosity before the cold sets in.

I hope that this info helps a little.

[vik]

Great - thanks for all the info - very helpful...

cheers,

Vik

[Magnus]

I have been using my Raven Catalyst for 4 years here in Iceland, as my year-round commuter and tourer.  The hub itself has worked flawlessly, in any condition I have encountered.  I have had probles with freezing cables - mostly when the weather is changing, like when you have frost one day and a thaw the next.  Moisture forms inside the cables, regardless of weather the housing is unbroken, and then freezes.
I've encountered temperatures down to -18 C and the hub hasn't missed a shift yet.

Magnus Thor

[blazius]

That's good news!  Do you have any remedies for frozen cables?

[Magnus]

The only remedy for frozen cables I've found so far is to change them often.  The problem with the cables is that dirt will inevitably get inside and you can't really clean the cables/liners properly.  So what I do is change them in the fall and again around midwinter.  Thankfully it's not a big job and takes wround an hour, for the whole cablerun, brakes and gears...and it's not that expensive.  Just don't buy superfine, expensive cables and liners.
If you can't change the cables, you can pull them out, spray a bit of WD40 inside the liners, whipe the cables, blow the WD40 out of the liners (if you have access to pressured air) and re-insert the cables.  That might help for a while.


Magnus Thor
Iceland