Brakes n tyres

[kevin_allen]

Just wondering how others find their brakes on a nomad. I find it very easy to lock my back wheel (rim brakes). Not blaming anyone but myself, I left a lot of skin on the road the other day, trying to slow down quickly. Ended up in heap very quickly. I had noticed when I first got my Nonad I locked the back wheel very easily. There isn’t  a lot between off and skidding. Wondering if the Schewalbe Hurricanes were a bit slippery? Any suggestions please?

[JohnR]

What load did you have on the bike when the skidding occurs? The brakes have probably been designed for stopping a heavily-loaded bike and may be fierce when there's less load. A change of brake pad to something less grippy (I'm no expert on this subject and can't make a suggestion) may make a significant difference.

I would note that when you brake a greater proportion of the load is transferred to the front wheel (and even more so when you are going downhill and most likely to need heavy braking). However, this effect will be minimised if you have a couple of loaded panniers on the bag. I've had rear wheel skids with disc brakes when on wet, muddy or loose surfaces but have, so far, managed to catch the skid before the back of the bike tried to overtake the front. I've also been trying to unlearn the training I had when young to minimise use of the front brake due to risk of going over the handlebars because, in reality, the front brake has the greater ability to safely stop the bike because of the load transfer (that said, a front wheel skid is more difficult to control if it happens).

The Hurricane tyres, however, with the smooth strip down the middle won't be at their best on anything other clean and dry tarmac. Something with more tread will give more grip on sub-optimum surfaces but at the expense of increased rolling resistance - life in a compromise!

[PH]

Ouch! Sorry you came off, heal well.
What are the brakes and levers?  Was this as built up by Thorn?  Or some other components?  Flat or drop bar?
Effective braking is dependent on modulation, I get sick of hearing people tell me their brakes are so good they can lock the wheels, as you've found out that isn't what you want!  The on/off description fits brakes where the levers pull too much cable for the brake, like using V brake levers with canti brakes, I'm not saying that's your issue, because I don't know what you have.
I've got a Hurricane tyre in 650B, the grip seems fine to me, though apparently Schwalbe have used the name for a few tyres (I wish they'd stop doing that!) It was the best thing they had in Halfords when I'd split another, I only bought it to get me out of trouble and last till I got something better, but nine months later it's still on.

Edit to add - There is a V brake noodle advertised as being "Anti-lock" or "Power Modulator" I have no idea of their effectiveness  This sort of thing:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/shimano-smpm70-power-modulator-90-degree-smpm7090/

[in4]

Hope you’re recovering well.
Quite a few variables that might have played a part. Weight, road/surface conditions, speed. I’ve only locked and skidded on my Nomad once so far. I was on a tarmac rail trail, partially loaded and moving a bit when a red setter appeared out of the bushes. Not nice but no injuries. I was on Mondials with a CSS rim but have used those Hurricanes on a different bike and they seemed fine; think they have a bead running down the centre?

Perhaps you just need to slacken off your brake cable a bit?

[Moronic]

Just wondering how others find their brakes on a nomad. I find it very easy to lock my back wheel (rim brakes). Not blaming anyone but myself, I left a lot of skin on the road the other day, trying to slow down quickly. Ended up in heap very quickly. I had noticed when I first got my Nonad I locked the back wheel very easily. There isn’t  a lot between off and skidding. Wondering if the Schewalbe Hurricanes were a bit slippery? Any suggestions please?

Sorry to hear about the lost skin - I've slid off motorcycles many times at much higher speeds but the few times I've come down on bicycles have been the most painful, due to the absence of protective clothing.

Hard to offer much on the incident without more context. A locked rear wheel doesn't typically bring you down if you're trying to stop in a straight line. Even on a curve you can usually save the skid by releasing the brake. As John observes above, it's common for the rear wheel to lock if you're trying to stop in a hurry, simply because weight transfer relieves the rear tyre of stopping power.

Is your experience with the Nomad very different from previous bikes? Might the greater problem be that the brake doesn't release when you ease the lever pressure (eg from wear or dryness in the cable)? How was it that the locked brake put you onto the road?

[kevin_allen]

Here is a bit more of what I think happened, but it was so quick I might be guessing. I had been touring with about 20kg on the back. But the last couple of days we were camping at Annecy. I was on a anti clockwise tour of the lack without a load. I had just climbed up the steep hill from the harbour and was enjoying gravity going the work on the downhill. I wasn’t letting it go full speed, although gathering speed. I started slowing for an upcoming barrier some distance off, when I felt my hat wanting to depart. I grabbed for it with my left hand. I think maybe I also grabbed harder on the brake with my right hand. Anyway the result was instant. Hat brake crash was a fraction of a second, no time for ooops something wrong, it was like my wheels were whipped away, whallop down on my right side. Lots of blood, the real pain was to come later, my wife god bless her, had brought along the antiseptic spray and a boots spray plaster. Wiped away the blood on various wounds, sprayed on the antiseptic no problem. Then She did the spray plaster, unbelievable it’s like sticking you arm in a wasp nest! That’s how it was for about 3 days, everytime I got sprayed boy did it sting. Still a wound healing now but the spray doesn’t hurt.
The nice bit as at the end of the ride there is bar near the camp site, I wheeled my bike in wanting a cold beer. The barman  looked at me and said “you make a cascade on your bike”. Yes I thought that sounds so much better than you idiot you fell off your bike. From now on if I fall off I’m making a cascade🤣

[JohnR]

That looks to be a combination of circumstances where the tyres were probably a minor factor. However, are your brakes connected in the European manner of left lever = front and right lever = rear as you indicate that you used the right hand for braking and previously said that it was a rear wheel skid?

[mickeg]

If you were wearing a hat and not a helmet as you were accelerating downhill, you are fortunate that you can describe what happened.

[kevin_allen]

That looks to be a combination of circumstances where the tyres were probably a minor factor. However, are your brakes connected in the European manner of left lever = front and right lever = rear as you indicate that you used the right hand for braking and previously said that it was a rear wheel skid?

Just what I was thinking, I just checked the bike incase I was wrong. Right brake is front wheel as is uk normal. So no idea what happened, surface good, bike went down sideways. Only bike damage , brooks has a flat spot on right side rear  corner. Ergon end roughed up and scratches top of Rohloff shifter.  I certainly didn’t go over the bars. Oh well let your hat go, don’t grab in haste.

[JohnR]

That makes more sense. Any tyre can skid on a loose surface (was it gravel, dirty tarmac or clean tarmac?) and a front wheel skid is far more dangerous than a rear wheel skid. Gravel tyres will bite better into gravel but roll less well on tarmac. If cycling includes both types of surfaces then one of the "allround" tyres may be a better choice than the Hurricanes but I always treat any gravel that's not both straight and level with considerable caution.

[Moronic]

Double ouch. That sounds horrible. It's pretty easy to crash a bike though. I've had a couple of near misses in the past few days. The first, skirting a puddle on a gravel surface that turned out to be mud - had a bit of lean on and very nearly lost the front. The second: right bend onto a cycle-path bridge, which had a chest-high pole dividing its approach into two lanes. Wasn't even going that fast, may have picked up a gust, had aimed to miss the pole by a foot, but my handlebar end just about caught it. That would have been nasty.

I keep thinking that I've enough experience to avoid all the traps. That may not be the case.

From your description my guess is body movement with only one hand on the 'bar. You're going downhill; you're trying to stop, as you said initially, in a hurry; you take your left hand off the bar to chase your hat; inadvertently you squeeze a bit harder with your right hand; and ... the front brake is stopping the bike, but what's stopping your upper body? The seat won't do much in that plane, so it's just your right hand and the right handlebar. Inevitably your body pushes your hand forward. Your hand pushes the handlebar, which turns the front wheel to the left, and the bike falls to the right.

Instinct is probably to pull on more brake as you go down, which makes it all worse.

If I'm close, then your head really was in grave danger. 

[PH]

I think grabbing any brake suddenly and harder than intended might lead to disaster, I understand there are people who can train themselves not to act so instinctively but I doubt there's many.   It is just the sort of circumstance that the fitting I linked above is intended to mitigate, I'm tempted to buy one as an experiment.
I hope it hasn't shaken your confidence too much, I know when I have an off it takes a while to fully trust myself again.  Not understanding what went wrong makes that harder.  When you're back on the bike, if not already, you could find somewhere safe to do so and test the brakes to the limit.