Knee pain

[ourclarioncall]

No idea where to post this so muppets it is

Went for a 17 mile ride tonight . Walked a little bit but mostly cycling . Within an hour of coming home my knees seemed to cease up and go stiff , really badly . I’ve never experienced any pain like that after riding , or any pain at all really .

 I haven’t ridden for quite sometime and especially longer distance . I did hit a few hills and working hard .  On previous bike I can feel of a gear is too high for me as I can feel the pressure build up on my knees and drop gears till it feels better.

I am a bit heavier , maybe a couple stone , I’m not sure .

May I just did too much and am rusty

The gear I was in was very low and even that was a struggle much of the time

I went to the stairs and did so stretches , putting my knees forward over my toes, then doing calf or hamstring stretches then tried to do quads . This seemed to help a lot and released all or most of the tension and pain , although I have a feeling it will be back in the morning

I have a slight forward  leaning posture too.

Anyone experienced anything similar?  I don’t get much knee pain or trouble but in the last year or so since my weight has risen I have felt occasional stiffness /pain.

For the last couple years I’ve spent a lot of time having to walk with and carry my toddler (a prolonged period where she had bad excema and wanted picked up all the time ) and she is growing and getting heavier all the time . My legs /knees can feel it after these times . It builds up over time. So that doesn’t help .

[martinf]

A variety of things for knee pain, some of which may or may not work for you:

- if you are overweight, lose weight. Easier said than done, but to me it seems logical that moving 100 kg of body (on a bicycle or walking) is going to put more strain on joints than moving 80 kg. Covid lockdowns were very restrictive here in France, during the first one we were limited to just 1 hour of exercise and a maximum perimeter of 1 km (basically that meant no cycing at all). So a lot of people, including myself, spend more time eating and much less time than usual doing exercise. My weight went up to 89 Kg, I am now back down to 80 Kg, which feels much better for both walking and cycling.

- make sure you drink enough liquid, especially in hot weather (but not alcohol!).

- eat healthily. In general, a varied diet should provide all the vitamins and minerals to keep the knee joints in good condition. As a precaution I added two supplements when I did an ambitious tour at 55 years of age - one cod liver oil capsule a day for vitamins and fatty acids plus extra salt to avoid cramps. I am pretty sure the salt worked for me, not so much for the cod liver oil, but I don't think it did any harm.

- keep your knees warm. I had a serious bout of knee pain about 40 years ago after riding in cold, wet jeans.

- don't force hard on hills, drop to a low gear and slow down, get off and push if you don't have a low enough gear to feel comfortable.

- use low gears and "spin" at high revs rather than "mash" at low revs. This works for me, but may not suit others.

- use short cranks. This is controversial, but works very well for me. With 150 mm cranks I can spin at higher revs, and go just as fast as I did before when I used 170 mm cranks. The force applied to the pedals is less for the same power output, this is also true for the knee joints.

- build up your cycling very gradually. If 17 miles is too much, start by doing very short distances, say 5 miles on the flat, but do it several times a week until you can increase the distance without discomfort.  I find it much easier to motivate myself if my cycling has a purpose - shopping, visit to the library, picnic etc.
And alternate with walking or some other exercise. Swimming is supposed to be very good but is something I dislike, so  I don't do it myself.

[in4]

Assuming your bike fit is OK it’s probably a case of slowly getting some miles into your legs 🦵 🦵 humming bird style. I guess you could post a photo on here of your riding position too. Main thing is you’re up and out on your Thorn. Brilliant stuff!

[mickeg]

Bike fit and setup is important.  But, you need to clearly identify what parts of your knees hurt, front or back or side, and if side is it inside or outside.  That info is needed to diagnose fit problems.

I occasionally have to adjust my seatpost height, but when I do I only adjust it maybe 5 to 7 mm at a time.  I used to wrap a piece of electric tape around my seatpost about 5mm above the clamp so I could see if it shifted while riding.  And if I needed to make an adjustment I could see how big the adjustment was.  Stopped using the tape, now have a dot of fingernail polish as a marker on my seatpost, that is a bit more permanent and less obvious.

I have had bad knees for the past half century.  Sometimes when backpacking, I would start to have pain that might last for a year and a half.  In my case, sometimes a patella band (google it) helps.  Last August on a two week backpacking trip, my knees got so bad I put on my patella bands (two) when I put my hiking boots on in the morning.

One ride last year, starting to go up a hill I pushed a bit hard and had a shot of pain, it got worse for next several miles.  Stopped, put on a patella band (I carry two in my handlebar bag) and the pain was almost gone 10 miles later when I got home.

Some people can get out of the saddle and pedal hard by standing on the pedals for uphills, sprints, accelerate after a stop at a stop light, etc.  That has always hurt my knees, stopped doing that over a decade ago.  Instead, gear down and stay in the saddle.

I did a group fully supported trip about a decade ago.  Week long.  Bike, lodging and most food provided.  One gal in the group was a medical professional, she blew out a knee.  Explained in great detail with lots of medical terminology what she did.  She could have ridden in the luggage van for the rest of the week but instead rode the bike slower and at a very high cadence every day.  That worked for her, along with some stretching, but she was a professional and could diagnose what she damaged.

Two weeks ago I did a 200k brevet, no knee problems but I was careful to make sure that I did not overstress my knees.  A few of the steepest hills, I got off the bike and walked it up the hill instead of trying to force the bike up the hill fast enough to maintain balance, that is my rando bike and lowest gear is not as low as my touring bikes.

[PH]

Thankfully I've never suffered but it is apparently the most common cyclist's complaint (Well second after the price of cake) Plenty of info all over the web, one of the things to draw from it is that it's often not related to the knee but a symptom that something else is wrong, as in4 suggests, bike fit a likely candidate. Or as Martin suggests, simply overdoing it.  There's a condition known as "Spring Knee"  which is simply caused by thinking you can ride on the first sunny day of the year in the same way you did months previously.
I wouldn't do anything too drastic based on a single experience. build up to it.  Also, be aware that you've possibly caused some minor injury that needs time to heal, otherwise you could aggravate that without doing anything wrong.

[ourclarioncall]

Thanks guys

The tightness/stiffness was more on the front of the knees .in the knee and maybe slightly below . Hard to describe . Only when I tried to bend them it was really bad .

My knees actually feel quite good this morning and quite loose , weird , not what I was expecting

I think I need a handful of more rides under my belt to figure this out . It could be a combination of things

I did just increase my seat height to where I like it , but I had not done a good proper bike run with the seat at the height before I change it

On hills most of the time I went low(gear)  and slow but it was a challenging tension . Not extreme but I got a good cardio workout for sure.

A few times I said no chance and got out of the saddle and pushed.

One thing I did which I don’t normally do is that I got ergon grips . G5? Can’t remember the model . The biggest ones where it goes straight and then a curve inwards like horns. Well when going up hills I was experimenting with holding on to the bars end and felt my upper body kind of helping with the climb . A bit like those machines  in the gym . But it does induce a bit of a slight side to side and forward and back motion which may put pressure on the knees. I stayed in the saddle I wasn’t standing up.

I think my seat height is pretty good .I started really high and slowly worked down in height . I put a bit of sellotape at the original height so I could compare .  I don’t rock side to side. I feel I can use all areas of my feet if I want to and it feels good and I’m not over extending . I find I’m naturally riding with the area of my feet I think your supposed to , but do sometimes use the centre of the feet and sometimes the heels feel good to drive a bit harder when going up hills.

I’ve played with adjusting the saddle forward and back and got the tilt angle right

I’m a lot happier with how the bike feels , especially since I got Thorn comfort bars , the bars are in a better position , but still not perfect . I feel like I want the bars to be higher so I can sit more upright . And a bit further back closer to me. I think you get some sort of riser bars things ? Not sure how all that works. Possibly my steerer tube was cut years ago and if I had the extra height that would have been perfect

I get the feeling that the frame is either a little too short for me or I need the bars up higher to sit more upright . But it is pretty good .

I got a cheap pannier bag from Halfords and after I put it on my heel hit it . I moved it a bit further away from my foot on the rack and now it’s fine , I haven’t hit it again. But it seemed quite close . Don’t know if that is a clue as to how the bike is fitting me

[PH]

I get the feeling that the frame is either a little too short for me or I need the bars up higher to sit more upright . But it is pretty good .

Just on the point of bike fit - Get where you're sitting in relation to the pedals right, then adjust the reach.
I've seen a lot of people, including myself, spend hours and £100's searching for the perfect hand position, when he issue wasn't that at all.

[mickeg]

Front of knee suggests seat too low which causes the front of the knee to get a bit stretched.

In my case a patella band helps if pain has started, but that is not a generic solution for all people.

[JohnR]

So far I've avoided knee problems while cycling (but gave up running because of complaining knees). Here's a good essay on the subject https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/fitness-and-training/cycling-knee-pain-the-problem-areas/ .

[steve216c]

1) get the saddle height right. Too low or too high can out extra strain on the knee.

2) use all the gears rather than powering along relying on leg strength.

I mentioned in a different thread I started be recent return to cycling with an unhealthy almost 20 stone. Now I am around 15. Years of carrying excess weight means you can expect some aches and pains. But as the pounds shed it does get easier. However, don't follow the 'no pain no pain' crowd when joints hurt. Your muscles can recover in a few hours if you have pushed too hard, but a damaged joint can have you immobile for weeks till it is recovered.

My tip, riding 19 to the dozen slowly up a hill will be less stressful on your knees than riding 8 to the dozen that some riders seem to do without breaking a sweat. Slow and steady wins the race when you are starting out.

You might also want to buy an elastic knee support.