Are all Andra rims Rohloff drilled now?

[PaddyRiot]

Hello forum,

I'm planning on building a Rohloff wheel with Andra 40 rim, for my Salsa Fargo.

Are all Andra, and thus the 40, now universally drilled for Rohloff?

That's what my LBS is telling me but having looked around the web, I'm not so sure.

[PH]

It's hard to tell what the manufacturers are doing as the stock takes a while to trickle through the system, some rims you can still buy now have been discontinued for years!
So without saying your supplier is wrong - The manufacturer's website still says they're available in different drillings and some suppliers are still listing std drilled rims.

[PaddyRiot]

Thanks PH, helpful.

So I'm going to try the Andra 321 disc - which apparently are newer (thinking less old stock) and all Rohloff friendly drilled (not sure on this, extrapolating).

Also far lighter at around 680g.

Anyone got experience of the 321s?

I found this diagram on the Rohloff site if of interest. 

[PH]

I built up a pair of 321 rims last year, Rohloff & Shimano dynamo hubs.  700c so the drilling is not as critical as with smaller wheels, I didn't know if any or all of them are specifically Rohloff drilled, a friend recommended them, he has them on an electric cargo bike and the rear hub motor is bigger than a Rohloff.
I'd rather have had SJS build the Rohloff, which came from them, but they weren't building at the time, so I replicated the pattern and tension of the Rohloff wheel they did build and all is well so far!  They were a simple build, bought them up to tension and they didn't need much truing, put them back in the jig after 5,000 km and was pleased that they didn't need any adjustment.

[mickeg]

I can't comment on current production, I built up my Rohloff wheel in 2013.  At that time I ordered a regular drilled Andra 30 and a Rohloff drilled Andra 30 from SJS.  (Both with CSS that is not longer produced.)  One of the rims arrived with a tag attached with Rohloff hand written on the tag.  There was no other marking on the rim to delineate which was which so I kept the Rohloff tag on the rim until I had a few spokes and nipples threaded into the rim.

My point is that if a rim was drilled for Rohloff, I would not use that rim on a regular hub with narrower flanges.  On that bike build, my non-Rohloff rim went onto a SP PV8 hub that has flanges only 50mm apart. 

I doubt that there is a rim that is drilled appropriate for both wide and narrow flanges.

I used brass Sapim Polyax nipples on both wheels.  Those nipples can make the drilling angle a bit less critical.

Ask the wheel builder if he or she has read the Rohloff instructions on building a wheel, some mechanics think they have built dozens of wheels and thus do not need to read the fine print.  As an example, a bike mechanic asked me why my Rohloff was laced up with only two cross instead of three?  He obviously had never read the Rohloff instructions.

[PH]

I doubt that there is a rim that is drilled appropriate for both wide and narrow flanges.

Are you talking 26" or 700c?  Though the OP hasn't specified either?
I note Thorns preferred rim for a 700c Mercury is the DT Swiss TK 540, which I'm pretty sure doesn't come with Rohloff specific drilling, not offered retail anyway.  My SJS 700c build is on a Sputnik, which I don't think is a specific drilling either. There was a diagram on this forum (Though I can't find it) which showed that Thorn's current 1X build on 700c rims had a radial nipple angle at the rim almost identical to a derailleur 3X.  I don't have the maths skills to work it out, but would suggest there's more width difference between the drive and non drive side of a derailleur hub than there is between those and a Rohloff.

[PaddyRiot]

700/29er

[mickeg]

I doubt that there is a rim that is drilled appropriate for both wide and narrow flanges.

Are you talking 26" or 700c?  ...

My Rohloff is on a 26 inch wheel, Andra 30.

[PH]

I doubt that there is a rim that is drilled appropriate for both wide and narrow flanges.

Are you talking 26" or 700c?  ...

My Rohloff is on a 26 inch wheel, Andra 30.

Yes, I think the smaller the wheel the more critical it becomes. 
I have a Rohloff on a folder with 24" wheels, I originally laced that 2X but didn't like the look of it so changed to 1X before tensioning.
There's a company builds Rohloffs into Bromptons, I haven't seen one, those spoke angles are going to be acute.

[mickeg]

I doubt that there is a rim that is drilled appropriate for both wide and narrow flanges.

Are you talking 26" or 700c?  ...

My Rohloff is on a 26 inch wheel, Andra 30.

Yes, I think the smaller the wheel the more critical it becomes. 
I have a Rohloff on a folder with 24" wheels, I originally laced that 2X but didn't like the look of it so changed to 1X before tensioning.
There's a company builds Rohloffs into Bromptons, I haven't seen one, those spoke angles are going to be acute.

I pasted this text from page 43 of the Rohloff manual (Version WS 2.13E 2010-11) that I saved on my hard drive in 2013 when I bought the hub.  It may have changed since, but I am not going to research that.

Due to the large spoke hole circle diameter of the Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14, the entrance angle between the
spokes and the rim is considerably small.  All 26" and 28" wheels must not be built in more than a 2x lacing pat-
tern.  All wheels smaller than 26” (24” and under) are only permitted to be laced in a 1x pattern.

By going with one cross on your folder, you met their criteria.

This topic has really changed over the years.  I worked in a bike shop in the early 70s, at that time high flange hubs were quite common and many wheels were built up with four cross lacing pattern.  But I can't remember the last time I saw a new four cross wheel. 

I just looked at a 36 spoke four cross wheel that was on a bike that I bought used, 700c tubular tires, Campy high flange hubs, the rear hub had a date code of 1961.  I did not use a protractor to measure but I think the angle that the spoke comes out of the rim deviates from perpendicular by far more than it does on my two cross Rohloff 36 spoke 26 inch wheel. 

[PH]

By going with one cross on your folder, you met their criteria.

Indeed, but I bought the hub second hand and it'd already been in two wheel sizes, 20" & 26", so whatever I did was going to be wrong and I thought 2X was closer to the existing wear marks.  I accepted the risk as at the price even if at some point it needs a new shell it would still have been a good buy.
Which reminds me... off to start a new thread...