Author Topic: Solar Panels for touring  (Read 6938 times)

keleher

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Solar Panels for touring
« on: November 07, 2013, 03:49:02 PM »
I'll be doing a three week trip next year mostly away from the grid. I've thought about dynohubs, but solar seems to be getting to the point where it is very competitive.

This http://www.amazon.com/Anker-Foldable-Dual-port-USB-charged-Including/dp/tech-data/B00E3OL5U8/ref=de_a_smtd claims to be a 14W anker solar panel, though how it's 14-watt when it's also max 5V/2A I'm not quite sure.

Nonetheless, for $75 US it looks like a great deal, maybe a panel that can be used on the bike (though it's large), but also maybe a panel that is good enough to give you a significant boost just being used in late afternoons.

Anything better out there? I'll probably just be charging iphone/ipad mini/lights.

Danneaux

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 04:35:06 PM »
Hi Pete!

I haven't used the Anker unit myself, so cannot comment on it with firsthand knowledge.

So far, I've been really pleased with my Joos Orange solar panel, which includes a 5400mAh battery. It is supposed to work reasonably well for charging an iPad (not all at once, but in large amounts at a time) and certainly will recharge an iPhone. I've found it charges nicely but more slowly on cloudy/rainy days. It takes about 12 hours in full sun to charge the 5400mAh accumulator battery from flat to full. The whole unit is genuinely waterproof to the point of being submersible and can be pre-charged or topped off with mains power. It is a bit heavy with its steel heat-sink and accumulator battery, but on par overall with other solar panels and accumulater batteries of similar capacity. Output is USB 5.0vdc @ 1.0A.  Most similar devices output 0.5A/500mA. Specs are here: http://solarjoos.com/tech-specs

A solar panel with built-in or attached accumulator battery gives you power in reserve you can draw-on later, say at night or while holed up in your tent during foul weather. This is really handy because it doesn't limit your *re*charging of gadgets to daytime hours, as is the case with solar-only.

The company page is here: http://solarjoos.com/

I got mine at REI here: http://www.rei.com/product/837625/joos-orange-portable-solar-charger

I plan to pick up a second one this week. REI recently ran a promotion where if one spent over USD$100 or so (my recent sus-posts), they'd give you a $25 gift card that expires within a couple weeks. If I figure my usual 15% discount (year-end 10% member dividend and 5% discount for using my REI VISA card), the net price is about USD$100 -- a 1/3 total price reduction and pretty close to the price you're considering. The idea behind a second Joos Orange is to have reserve charging capacity during a period of extended cloudy days/rain when the rate of charging is less than on sunny days and when I'm also grinding along at low speed with many stops and dynopower may be lower than usual as well. Remember, when I tour I spend extended periods away from mains power and have to be energy self-sufficient, so your requirements might well be different.

The Joos Orange comes with a only a single mounting/locking hole, so I made four attachment points by screwing 6/32 machine screws (LocTited) into the reflector mounting points and attaching loops of nylon webbing to that. Presto; four mounting points *and* a locking point.

The thing I've found with touring and solar power is this: Days are for charging the solar accumulator battery, nights are for charging gadgets.  Get it backwards and you'll never quite get on top of it until you can top-off the accumulator battery from mains power.

My current scheme -- which worked well this summer -- is to charge/power my gadgets during the day as I ride along...with a small 2200mAh buffer battery between my Tout Terrain The Plug2+ and powered gadget (i.e. my GPS). Meanwhile, I've got the Joos Orange on the boil atop my rear rack, and when  get to camp, I use it to charge/top off the devices I've drained during the day. Typically, this would be the camera batteries and AA/AAA cells.

I hope this helps, Pete. Mine is one solution among many good ones used by Forum members. It has worked well for me in practice but there are other good alternatives

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 04:44:36 PM by Danneaux »

keleher

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2013, 03:14:10 PM »
Dan,

How could this tiny solar panel put out 18W? I can only think it must be much, much more efficient than the 15%-20% panels used by others. On the other hand I read a couple reviews where people said it only charged the built-in 5400 battery half way in a day of sunlight?

Something is not adding up here.

Danneaux

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2013, 07:26:48 PM »
<nods> Yeah, Pete, the figures give me pause as well, but I'm getting good results in practice.

I researched the reviews pretty extensively before buying and it seems some examples just did.not.work very well and the company was good about replacements. Others seemed to work well out of the box and thereafter. It seems to be important to use their cord when using the device to recharge other gadgets...made a big difference in my case, anyway.

There is a caution in the owner's manual (confirmed in my use) saying the panel will not achieve a full charge on mains power alone; circuitry restrictions means solar is needed for a full top-off. Their downloadable charge-monitoring app is useful for seeing how fast the device is charging as well as state-of-charge. It seems to confirm the claimed charging rate. I have found the panel does continue to charge the internal battery very nicely in the rain and even inside my tent, though not at the same rate as on a sunny-bright day in full sun.

I've put my plans for purchasing a second one on hold pending rumors of a double-panel model reputed to charge netbooks like my little HP Mini 1104. Those rumors have been floating around for awhile, but I've decided to wait till REI's spring sales before getting a second Joos Orange.

Best,

Dan.

keleher

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2013, 10:30:22 PM »
Dan,

The JOOS site says 18W "Maximum Solar Cell Wattage", but down under "Photovoltaic System" it says 2.4 to 2.6W rated peak. This is where I'd expect it to be for a panel of that size.

The Anker system, however looks big enough to deliver 10-14 real watts. You'd have to provide your own battery, but those are cheap. The Anker panel might be idea for your extrawheel contraption, plenty of room to spread it out....

il padrone

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2013, 11:31:55 PM »
That JOOS panel is really very small - notably smaller than the panel with the Powermonkey Extreme. The specs for this claim a panel output of 3W, so I'd be amazed that the JOOS could even achieve 2.6W.

My Powermonkey panel takes a day of sun (6-8hrs) to charge the battery to about 40%. This would be enough to charge the phone easlily but not an Ipad. I would think the JOOS would struggle to recharge an Ipad fully.

Danneaux

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2013, 01:51:51 AM »
Hi Pete and Pete!

Since I don't have an iPad and the Joos Orange's output is insufficient to charge my netbook, I have so far used it only to charge the following:
• Eneloop and Eneloop XX AA/AAA batteries in an Eneloop USB charger (to power my GPS, LED headlight, LED bike blinky taillight, MP3 player, and AM/FM/Weather radio).
• Camera batteries (GoPro HD Hero2, Panasonic TZ-5, Sony DMC-HX20, and the embedded battery in my Flip Mineo HD vidcam).
• Embedded battery in my Panasonic electric shaver.
• My "dumb phone" battery.
• And to top off partially depleted batteries among my spares (I usually pack 1-2 pre-charged spare batteries for each of my most heavily used or most critical gadgets).

For these purposes it has worked as well as a USB 2.0 outlet on my computer, a USB mains adapter, or my Tout Terrain The Plug2+ when riding. The goal was to have a backup or secondary means for charging on days when I might not make much distance or for layovers when the dynohub is not running. I have found the Joos Orange worked well to charge each of these batteries/devices from flat in a time comparable to mains power. I found the most efficient charging scheme was to charge the accumulator battery from the sun during the say and only charge or top-off my gadgets at night, in the dark. This allowed the Joos Orange's accumulator battery to have the entire next day to charge, either from flat or to top-off any remaining charge. Trying to charge gadgets during the day (as the panel itself was replenishing its own accumulator battery) made for diminishing returns. I make sure I leave home with a fully charged Joos so I have a ready reserve of power. This is a good strategy with any sort of accumulator battery. I also pre-charge my Eneloops before leaving home so they're ready to go. I top off the batteries for my most-used gadgets or those with highest draw/drain daily  (i.e. my Garmin Oregon 400T, which runs about 17 hours while continuously tracking). Less-used or less power-hungry items can slide for awhile (my LED headlamp has a 65 hour battery life, my radio between 31-54hrs. Of course, I produce dynopower for charging while underway during the day, so depending on demand, the Joos does't always have to do much charging at night while in camp.

As for how long it takes to charge the Joos Orange's internal accumulator battery, the company's support page ( http://solarjoos.com/support ) says...
Quote
It depends on your location, time of year, time of day, temperature, sunshine/cloud level, the angle of the sun in relation to the solar cell and whether you move the JOOS Orange to follow the sun or just let it sit still. The quickest would be about 10% filled per hour (2Wh/hour) if you rotate the JOOS Orange to track the full sun on a very cold day. On a sunny day, if you just leave it in one place facing where the noon sun will be, you’ll likely average somewhere between 5% and 7.5% filled per hour.
When I deliberately flatted the Joos' internal battery and logged time-to-fully charge at home, it took just a couple minutes over 12 hours on a cloudless sunny day; I did move the panel three times over this period to track the sun. While atop my rear rack, I found the charging rate averaged just under 7%/hour (stopping periodically to check the unit's state-of-charge light against my stopwatch and the app loaded on my netbook), but that charging rate figure depends on so much. I changed direction of travel, was in and out of tree-shade, and the skies were variably cloudy but generally bright.

The Joos Orange isn't going to charge an iPad from flat in one go. According to Joos...
Quote
The JOOS Orange battery is roughly 80% the size of the iPad 1 and iPad 2 battery, and about half the size of the “new iPad” battery. Because of limitations with the charging circuitry on Apple’s iPad, some power is lost during the charging process. This results in the JOOS Orange providing a 60-70% charge on an iPad or iPad 2, and a 35-40% charge on a “new iPad.”
Of course, there is a limit on how many times a fully charged Joos Orange will replenish an iPhone battery...
Quote
A fully charged JOOS Orange will provide approximately 2.5 charges on an iPhone 3G, 3GS, 4, and 4S, and approximately 2 charges on an iPhone 5. Although the size of the JOOS Orange’s battery could, in theory, provide additional charges, limitations with the charging circuitry on Apple’s iPhone cause some power to be lost during the charging process.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 04:46:44 AM by Danneaux »

cycling4chapatis

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2013, 08:55:14 AM »
Hi there,

also pondering the solar option. We won't have massive power requirements (Petzl head torches - 3AAAs each, rear lights, - 2AAA each and one clever phone).

The solar charger I'm looking at is this one: http://www.bushnell.com/all-products/outdoor-technology/powersync/solarwrap-250

It's about $150, has a 2200mAh internal battery and puts out 1A at 5V (USB). The miniVersion is about $80, has the same battery capacity, but only half the panel size and hence slower charging. There's also several larger versions. The company doesn't state mAh (why???), but you can work them out from the number of phone charges you can get out.

Anyone have one?

Anyone have a recommendation how to charge AAAs from such a 5V/1A USB output?

il padrone

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2013, 09:01:16 AM »
AAA's in a headtorch or a tail-light last for ages and ages. I wouldn't (and don't) bother with rechargables. Just buy new ones every three months or so when they run out of power. AAA's are pretty readily available unless you're going to the Third World.

StuntPilot

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2013, 02:25:35 PM »
Worth looking out for this 20w solar panel from Goal Zero. Only available from the US but shortly to be release in Europe.

https://www.goalzero.com/p/179/nomad-20-solar-panel

There is a small UK company that has just produced a high efficiency panel that also looks good value. Might get one myself one day!

http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/high-efficiency-solar-usb-charger/

For USB battery charging they also do a 4 battery USB charger ...

http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/portapow-4x-aa-usb-rechargeable-battery/

Then there is the eneloop mini USB charger. Other chargers here too ...

http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop-products/chargers/charger-manuals.html

Hope that powers you forward  :D



cycling4chapatis

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2013, 02:26:27 AM »
Stunt pilot - thanks for those links!

Here's a pretty recent review of all this: http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Solar-Charger-Reviews

Here's an electronica question: if the solar panel/ battery says that it puts out 5V/ 1A, but for example the Eneloop/ Sanyo USB charger says 5V/500mA max input - are they going to be happy with each other?

Andre Jute

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2013, 11:26:25 AM »
Here's an electronica question: if the solar panel/ battery says that it puts out 5V/ 1A, but for example the Eneloop/ Sanyo USB charger says 5V/500mA max input - are they going to be happy with each other?

Generally speaking the answer is that they will be very happy with each other; problems arise (slow or no charging) when the receiver expects more current capability than the sender can supply. However, as always with electronics, the devil is in the details of the execution. If the receiver sucks only half an amp, with a whole amp available on the line, the voltage of the supply will rise above the 5V expected, unless the sender's output is voltage-regulated. USB devices are sensitive to supply voltages, but, for the same reason, USB chargers are normally regulated. As long as you don't try to use a charger not intended for USB work, you'll be okay.

StuntPilot

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Re: Solar Panels for touring
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2013, 11:49:14 AM »
Yes, most solar panels with a USB output have a regulated 5V output, at least the one I have (Goal Zero Nomad 13.5w) does as well as the two I suggested.

If you intend using the 12v output from a solar panel, it is often unregulated so the output voltage needs to be correct for your device/battery.