Riding position on short and long frames

[ourclarioncall]

On page 26 of the Thorn bible where it gives options for riding positions, I have a query

For example Under the VERY RELAXED option it says

“Most men and all women will need a SHORT club tour, Mercury or Nomad Mk3 to achieve this position with straight bars”

Does it mean you will have to have short nomad mk3 ? It only says short next to club tour, but I’m thinking it is grouping all 3 frames together . I see they make both a L(long) and S(short) version of the Nomad mk3, so it would seem likely

It also says a similar thing under the RELAXED and FAIRLY RELAXED choices

This is a bit of a shock as I would like VERY RELAXED position or close to it , but never expected I would have to have a short frame . No big deal I suppose. I guess I’m just used to the aesthetic of seeing the longer frames , but I can see why a shorter frame would be needed for that position.

[Danneaux]

I guess I’m just used to the aesthetic of seeing the longer frames , but I can see why a shorter frame would be needed for that position.

While aesthetics are nice it is most important to achieve the best fit for your needs. This is more important than any other feature, in my opinion. Fit becomes more important the more you ride and a poor fit will prevent you from riding the bike enjoyably or pain free and will ultimately compromise your satisfaction.

For fit questions, I'd definitely suggest giving SJS Cycles a call, body measurements in hand.

Best,

Dan.

[ourclarioncall]

Mature me agrees , vain me agonises over angles, proportions and colour. I have an artistic streak that’s hard to shake 

I’m supposed to be calling Mr Thorn this week so will add it to my list of questions along with “can I get a Nomad mk 3 in Matt Back ?”

[Danneaux]

  Good move. All good wishes on your consultation; may success be yours!

Best,

Dan.

[ourclarioncall]

Thanks Dan, you guys are great help , lovely community on here 👍

[JohnR]

Do you already have a bike which gives you the body position you want? Before I got my ex-demo Mercury (I think it's only use had been to be photographed for the Touring Bike bible) I had figured out by trial and error in the previous bike how far I wanted the handlebar clamp from the saddle and the height difference between saddle, handlebar and ground. I recall that Sarah at SJS then checked those dimensions on the bike I was interested in and they were close enough to be within the range of easy adjustment. The handlebar position can be fine-tuned by changing the ahead stem. I find it's a matter of riding for a couple of hours after an adjustment to decide whether it's better or worse than previously - even a 5mm adjustment of the saddle can make a difference.

My favourite handlebars are the Humpert AHS bars (which SJS sell - mine are https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars/510-humpert-ahs-basic-sport-handlebars-cw-comfort-barends-254mm-clamp-black ) which give me two completely different hand and body positions (approx "fairly relaxed" and "sporty" according to page 26 of the Bible). I'm happiest in the relaxed position but if either pedalling into a headwind or crusing downhill then I switch to the sporty position for less wind drag but the change in position also provides comfort. My sporty position has the palms on the outside corners of the AHS bars. I tried the Ergon GP5L bars with long bar ends that came on the bike but couldn't achieve a similar position. A disadvantage, however, of the AHS bars is their load rating (max rider + luggage weight of 100kg) although I suspect that allows a substantial safety factor but I'm well within that limit.

[ourclarioncall]

Hi JohnR, I have had a 22” frame mountain bike which I always felt I was over stretching to get comfortable on the bars. Then more recently I’ve got 2 Carrera hybrid bikes from Halfords . Ones a 20” and the other 18”

With all these bikes I have managed to get positions that work for me with experimental with seat high really high then slowly bringing it down , and moving saddle forward or back . The main thing is I find myself pushing my body up from a sporty to relaxed position , which feels where I want to be.

I took some photos of me on the bikes in normal and then my “where I want to be” positions and it seems I want to be in a much more relaxed position.

Cool bars, I’d like to buy them all and experiment . Sancerre I’m missing out on something better 😁

[JohnR]

I wonder if your other bikes have the handlebars too low relative to the saddle height. Some bike manufacturers tend to assume that the riders want their nose near the front wheel and cut the steerer too short (this can be addressed by stem raisers but they aren't an ideal solution). The top of my handlebar clamp is about 2" / 5cm above the top of the saddle. And here's a photo of my implementation of the bars. It's not quite up-to-date as I've now fitted Ergon GP1 grips to further improve hand comfort in the relaxed position and I should point out that part of the position fine tuning is rotation of the ends so the height of the front part can be changed in search of the optimum position. I can swap between the two body positions very easily and no effort is needed to get into the relaxed position whenever there's a potential need to use the brakes but I can change gear with the right hand while keeping the left hand on the front part of the bars.

[ourclarioncall]

Yeah, I think that’s definitely it. And I think I have long legs and a short torso which makes it feel more awkward being forced into that position (I think ) plus I’m getting old and my hips are stiff , back tight moan moan lol 😊

[JohnR]

It's probably worth getting one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wake-Extender-Handlebar-Aluminium-Adjustable/dp/B074WLDHGY (plenty of similar products available) so you can do some experimenting with handlebar height as it ould have some influence on the optimum saddle -bar distance.

[ourclarioncall]

Cool. Just had a look .