51
Bikes For Sale / Re: Thorn ClubTour Mk4 -£650
« Last post by Sara Brown on June 05, 2026, 06:36:46 PM »Hi, is this still for sale please? I’m looking for a club tour. Thanks Sara
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52
Cycle Tours / Re: Do you match one another's pace when you tour with a friend?
« Last post by Danneaux on June 05, 2026, 04:20:12 PM »I've found there's so many variables in pacing, I could write a book about the social dynamics. Instead, I'll summarize the high points of what I've found over the years...
The TLDR version is this: Make expectations clear from the outset and if they aren't met for either party, chalk it up to experience and select a different companion for future rides. You'll both be happier if you do. If you can't ride together and converse, then see if meetups along the way or at day's end are fulfilling enough to schedule future rides together.
1) From 1978-82 (before cellphones and GPS), I led cycle-tour groups professionally and the matter of pacing differences was baked-in. The most straightforward way to deal with it was to offer and divide tours and pacing into beginner, intermediate, and advance groups so people with similar physical ability were matched. Unfortunately, people often failed to estimate their abilities objectively when representing themselves. Sometimes, we needed everyone who signed up in order to meet costs and logistical goals, resulting in wildly varied groups. In either case, each group had people whose abilities *and goals* varied. As a tour leader, I found the one as important as the other to making for a satisfying group-tour experiece.
I was the sole group leader for each ride-group and fortunately stronger and more experienced than most of the participants, so I equipped everyone with a map and clear pace/route notes and most often "led from the rear", making sure the slowest riders weren't dropped off the back, while I occasionally rode up through the group to check on those ahead before dropping back. Those at the front were instructed to stop and wait for me if a turn seemed at all unclear. Regular, mandatory marked stops ensured the group bunched together at intervals. These stops usually featured some sort of interest point, activity, restaurant, or tourist destination where those who arrived early could become engaged enough to still be there when the stragglers arrived. These periodic meetups allowed for group sharing after the fact and provided a measure of bonding that wasn't possible on the road. "Mechanicals" (i.e. drivetrain adjustments, punctures) would sometimes enhance or torpedo these meetups, but holding to the rule that none could advance from a stop till all had arrived equalized things.
I adapted this "ride apart and meetup periodically" strategy when riding with mixed groups of friends who simply were unable to match pace to each other. It wwell sometimes with only a single companion of we were agreeable on th eplan from the start.
2a) On personal *day* rides, I found the best route to ongoing companionship while riding with a friend was to make expectations clear at the beginning this would be a "conversational/companionable/social" ride; that set out the need for compromise from the beginning. I found it easy to adapt my riding style (usually downward) in favor of camaraderie and sharing. If others couldn't or wouldn't, then future rides together were a no-go unless we mutually agreed in advance it would be an "individual ride together" where each would be on the same route, meeting-up only at pre-arranged stops or the end.
2b) As an aside, I've found riding a tandem can be a great pace equalizer that allows for ready conversation. Both parties arrive and depart at the same time and no one gets dropped. The more fit rider can beat themselves to a pulp and in doing so, makes things easier for the less fit. It can work well provided both riders accept the compromise of being yoked together and are well-versed in coordinating elements like mounting/dismounting and the nonverbal communication that comes through the timing chain.
3) *Touring* together with another person over an extended period of time is like a marriage for the duration of the time together. Some people just aren't compatible and trial separations or divorce are in order. For that reason, one ground rule I made for touring with anyone else on a single bike was to each be fully equipped so a break could be easily made if necessary. The catalyzing element in "breakups" always came down to terrain, weather, and personality more than differences in pacing that only get worse over time. Once the "resentment threshold" is crossed, the bar lowers by the day and remaining even-tempered can itself be enraging to those who aren't, leading to a complete loss of detente. For me, a good attitude has always been the most essential tool in my kit and I take adversity -- even over extended periods -- with equanimity. Not everyone does and people who don't will often lash out at the only person close to hand -- their touring companion.
This last element eventually cooked any desire to tour with someone other than like-minded family members for any extended period of time. It is no fun being the target of personal attacks because the weather turned unexpectedly bad or a hill was steeper than expected or a favorite coffee was not available at a restaurant rest stop, leading to an epic explosion and my acute embarrassment at the others' behavior toward waitstaff. I'm much better off riding solo and much happier for it and I find myself happily falling asleep in my own little tent rather than harboring homicidal thoughts in the pre-dawn hours.
-----
A last note: I've never had a problem touring at varied pace with family members, as everyone was happy to adjust pace and goals to match each other, usually somewhere in between but always favoring the less-fit rider or the one who wished to loiter or converse. When things go bad my family members were wired in similar ways to approach tough times with patience, determination, and a smile/shrug of the shoulders as we got on with it.
Best, Dan.
The TLDR version is this: Make expectations clear from the outset and if they aren't met for either party, chalk it up to experience and select a different companion for future rides. You'll both be happier if you do. If you can't ride together and converse, then see if meetups along the way or at day's end are fulfilling enough to schedule future rides together.
1) From 1978-82 (before cellphones and GPS), I led cycle-tour groups professionally and the matter of pacing differences was baked-in. The most straightforward way to deal with it was to offer and divide tours and pacing into beginner, intermediate, and advance groups so people with similar physical ability were matched. Unfortunately, people often failed to estimate their abilities objectively when representing themselves. Sometimes, we needed everyone who signed up in order to meet costs and logistical goals, resulting in wildly varied groups. In either case, each group had people whose abilities *and goals* varied. As a tour leader, I found the one as important as the other to making for a satisfying group-tour experiece.
I was the sole group leader for each ride-group and fortunately stronger and more experienced than most of the participants, so I equipped everyone with a map and clear pace/route notes and most often "led from the rear", making sure the slowest riders weren't dropped off the back, while I occasionally rode up through the group to check on those ahead before dropping back. Those at the front were instructed to stop and wait for me if a turn seemed at all unclear. Regular, mandatory marked stops ensured the group bunched together at intervals. These stops usually featured some sort of interest point, activity, restaurant, or tourist destination where those who arrived early could become engaged enough to still be there when the stragglers arrived. These periodic meetups allowed for group sharing after the fact and provided a measure of bonding that wasn't possible on the road. "Mechanicals" (i.e. drivetrain adjustments, punctures) would sometimes enhance or torpedo these meetups, but holding to the rule that none could advance from a stop till all had arrived equalized things.
I adapted this "ride apart and meetup periodically" strategy when riding with mixed groups of friends who simply were unable to match pace to each other. It wwell sometimes with only a single companion of we were agreeable on th eplan from the start.
2a) On personal *day* rides, I found the best route to ongoing companionship while riding with a friend was to make expectations clear at the beginning this would be a "conversational/companionable/social" ride; that set out the need for compromise from the beginning. I found it easy to adapt my riding style (usually downward) in favor of camaraderie and sharing. If others couldn't or wouldn't, then future rides together were a no-go unless we mutually agreed in advance it would be an "individual ride together" where each would be on the same route, meeting-up only at pre-arranged stops or the end.
2b) As an aside, I've found riding a tandem can be a great pace equalizer that allows for ready conversation. Both parties arrive and depart at the same time and no one gets dropped. The more fit rider can beat themselves to a pulp and in doing so, makes things easier for the less fit. It can work well provided both riders accept the compromise of being yoked together and are well-versed in coordinating elements like mounting/dismounting and the nonverbal communication that comes through the timing chain.
3) *Touring* together with another person over an extended period of time is like a marriage for the duration of the time together. Some people just aren't compatible and trial separations or divorce are in order. For that reason, one ground rule I made for touring with anyone else on a single bike was to each be fully equipped so a break could be easily made if necessary. The catalyzing element in "breakups" always came down to terrain, weather, and personality more than differences in pacing that only get worse over time. Once the "resentment threshold" is crossed, the bar lowers by the day and remaining even-tempered can itself be enraging to those who aren't, leading to a complete loss of detente. For me, a good attitude has always been the most essential tool in my kit and I take adversity -- even over extended periods -- with equanimity. Not everyone does and people who don't will often lash out at the only person close to hand -- their touring companion.
This last element eventually cooked any desire to tour with someone other than like-minded family members for any extended period of time. It is no fun being the target of personal attacks because the weather turned unexpectedly bad or a hill was steeper than expected or a favorite coffee was not available at a restaurant rest stop, leading to an epic explosion and my acute embarrassment at the others' behavior toward waitstaff. I'm much better off riding solo and much happier for it and I find myself happily falling asleep in my own little tent rather than harboring homicidal thoughts in the pre-dawn hours.
-----
A last note: I've never had a problem touring at varied pace with family members, as everyone was happy to adjust pace and goals to match each other, usually somewhere in between but always favoring the less-fit rider or the one who wished to loiter or converse. When things go bad my family members were wired in similar ways to approach tough times with patience, determination, and a smile/shrug of the shoulders as we got on with it.
Best, Dan.
53
Cycle Tours / Re: Do you match one another's pace when you tour with a friend?
« Last post by Matt2matt2002 on June 05, 2026, 09:50:34 AM »On my first big tour abroad I hooked up with 3 others.
Really nice folks I fell out with quite quickly.
Different speeds was the main thing.
I wanted the tour to be mine and it became theirs.
After a few weeks I managed to take a different route and avoid them.
Looking back I should have agreed a daily rough stopping point and met up with them there.
The whole adventure/incident changed my idea of riding with other folks permanently.
I never ever ride with anyone else. And we're all happy!
Each to their own of course.
Really nice folks I fell out with quite quickly.
Different speeds was the main thing.
I wanted the tour to be mine and it became theirs.
After a few weeks I managed to take a different route and avoid them.
Looking back I should have agreed a daily rough stopping point and met up with them there.
The whole adventure/incident changed my idea of riding with other folks permanently.
I never ever ride with anyone else. And we're all happy!
Each to their own of course.
54
Cycle Tours / Re: Do you match one another's pace when you tour with a friend?
« Last post by Andyb1 on June 05, 2026, 08:21:44 AM »Traditional methods might have included bricks in panniers or lowering tyre pressures, but you could also look at resetting his speedo so it over reads by a few mph……
55
Cycle Tours / Do you match one another's pace when you tour with a friend?
« Last post by Moronic on June 05, 2026, 07:04:29 AM »The attached image shows a touring companion as he recedes into the distance, and while that's perfectly natural on a downhill such as this one it's also what I see most of the time when the two of us are out on a trip. For a while. And then he disappears.
He's stronger than I am, and his touring steed, an ancient aluminium-framed mountain bike with an almost equally ancient plastic saddle, is much less comfortable to ride than my Mercury 650B, which perches me on a perfectly broken-in Brooks B17.
The discrepancy in comfort I offer as an excuse for his preferring to travel much faster than I can. But he doesn't allude to that when he explains himself. He says everyone has their preferred pace, and his just happens to be faster than mine.
Fair enough. But I've toured with other riders whose natural pace was more speedy than than mine, and they've chosen to take it easy so that we can chat. Sure, from time to time they might sprint up a hill while I reached for my granny gear. But where possible we rode side-by-side, remarking on the scenery or carrying on a conversation about whatever topic seemed most entertaining. Similarly, when I'm on a trip with someone who's slower than I am, I tend to match my pace with theirs.
I'd not previously thought much about which style I preferred. But after a recent trip of the former kind, I realised that I do much prefer the latter kind. For me it's more fun to be chatting with someone where effort permits that, and to share in remarking on sights, sounds and smells.
There is also more opportunity for taking in places of interest. "Hey, let's stop at that lookout/rural winery/picnic spot!" is not a possible suggestion when your lead rider has already whizzed past it.
I'm interested to know how fellow Thorn tourists who don't always ride solo prefer their shared tours to go.
To be clear, I'm not looking for anyone to tell me that my preference is the right way to do things: everyone has their own approach to touring, and even when one participant is mainly concerned to make pace there is still the planned lunch stop, and the yarning over dinner at the end of the day. And the leader can choose interesting spots for a shared break: I'm never that far behind.
So this is offered as a discussion for anyone who would like to share some experience. How do you handle pace discrepancies when you're out on the trail?
He's stronger than I am, and his touring steed, an ancient aluminium-framed mountain bike with an almost equally ancient plastic saddle, is much less comfortable to ride than my Mercury 650B, which perches me on a perfectly broken-in Brooks B17.
The discrepancy in comfort I offer as an excuse for his preferring to travel much faster than I can. But he doesn't allude to that when he explains himself. He says everyone has their preferred pace, and his just happens to be faster than mine.
Fair enough. But I've toured with other riders whose natural pace was more speedy than than mine, and they've chosen to take it easy so that we can chat. Sure, from time to time they might sprint up a hill while I reached for my granny gear. But where possible we rode side-by-side, remarking on the scenery or carrying on a conversation about whatever topic seemed most entertaining. Similarly, when I'm on a trip with someone who's slower than I am, I tend to match my pace with theirs.
I'd not previously thought much about which style I preferred. But after a recent trip of the former kind, I realised that I do much prefer the latter kind. For me it's more fun to be chatting with someone where effort permits that, and to share in remarking on sights, sounds and smells.
There is also more opportunity for taking in places of interest. "Hey, let's stop at that lookout/rural winery/picnic spot!" is not a possible suggestion when your lead rider has already whizzed past it.
I'm interested to know how fellow Thorn tourists who don't always ride solo prefer their shared tours to go.
To be clear, I'm not looking for anyone to tell me that my preference is the right way to do things: everyone has their own approach to touring, and even when one participant is mainly concerned to make pace there is still the planned lunch stop, and the yarning over dinner at the end of the day. And the leader can choose interesting spots for a shared break: I'm never that far behind.
So this is offered as a discussion for anyone who would like to share some experience. How do you handle pace discrepancies when you're out on the trail?
56
Thorn General / Re: Mercury 40
« Last post by Moronic on June 05, 2026, 06:24:14 AM »Small world indeed. Isn't it fun when that happens?
Yes I too smiled at your having named your Mercury Freddie. My name for mine, in so far as it has one, is Tailwind. Because that's how it felt when I first took it out on a run, having substituted it for my excellent carbon-aluminium Trek, which was always a bit small in the frame for me. Remarkably perhaps, it still feels like that.
Thanks for the detail on panniers. I think my Ortlieb fronts weigh 700g each. I doubt I'll replace them with lighter bags, but it's interesting to be reminded that there's weight to be saved.
I've attached a blurry shot of the Merc with four Ortliebs, taken when I was preparing for its first multi-day trip (when I ended up using just the fronts and a rack bag, a mistake).
A part of what appeals about the four-bag setup is that everything could go in them, with the rack-top reserved for contingencies. It will look neater, and as we all know, neater is lighter: it saves the mental load attached to untidiness.
Yes I too smiled at your having named your Mercury Freddie. My name for mine, in so far as it has one, is Tailwind. Because that's how it felt when I first took it out on a run, having substituted it for my excellent carbon-aluminium Trek, which was always a bit small in the frame for me. Remarkably perhaps, it still feels like that.
Thanks for the detail on panniers. I think my Ortlieb fronts weigh 700g each. I doubt I'll replace them with lighter bags, but it's interesting to be reminded that there's weight to be saved.
I've attached a blurry shot of the Merc with four Ortliebs, taken when I was preparing for its first multi-day trip (when I ended up using just the fronts and a rack bag, a mistake).
A part of what appeals about the four-bag setup is that everything could go in them, with the rack-top reserved for contingencies. It will look neater, and as we all know, neater is lighter: it saves the mental load attached to untidiness.
57
Thorn General / Re: Mercury 40
« Last post by John Saxby on June 04, 2026, 06:36:25 PM »Matt, great to hear from you & to know that you're drinking coffee -- even if some gets spilled 
Ian,
I've done a weeklong tour with four panniers, with this setup:
> on the rear, I use a pair of Arkel Dri-lites. These are sturdy and soft, weighing about 500 gms. In these, I stow cookware and food. On my rear rack, I stow my tent in a dry-sack, rolled up & secured with lightweight clip-together cords.
> on the front rack, I use a pair of Arkel Dauphin waterproofs, about 16 ltrs each. These hold my clothing & sleeping bag, etc.
> the weight of the two pairs of loaded panniers is about equal.
> I use a small handlebar bag as well, 7-ltr Axiom
Love the photo, and esp the name Yanckandandah! We visited Wangaratta on a circuit tour in 2017, Melbun via the Ocean Road to Wangaratta, Canberra & Sydney. Nice wee coincidence on that trip: In Melbun, I saw a paperback store, walked in, and asked if the young woman at the desk if they had a copy of Peter Carey's True History of the Kelly Gang. They did, she said, and pointed to a shelf. As I walked over to it, a voice from behind it said, "John! What brings you here??" Was a fellow I knew from Ottawa, originally from 'Straya. He had returned home, and was managing the store on behalf of his sister, the owner. Small world, eh?
Ian,
Quote
while I've tested the Mercury with four panniers, and have a low-rider Tubus rack for the front, I've not yet toured with four panniers. The loads I've carried haven't demanded that much space, and I keep seeing reasons for saving the 2kg that the front rack and twin Ortliebs add empty.
I've done a weeklong tour with four panniers, with this setup:
> on the rear, I use a pair of Arkel Dri-lites. These are sturdy and soft, weighing about 500 gms. In these, I stow cookware and food. On my rear rack, I stow my tent in a dry-sack, rolled up & secured with lightweight clip-together cords.
> on the front rack, I use a pair of Arkel Dauphin waterproofs, about 16 ltrs each. These hold my clothing & sleeping bag, etc.
> the weight of the two pairs of loaded panniers is about equal.
> I use a small handlebar bag as well, 7-ltr Axiom
Love the photo, and esp the name Yanckandandah! We visited Wangaratta on a circuit tour in 2017, Melbun via the Ocean Road to Wangaratta, Canberra & Sydney. Nice wee coincidence on that trip: In Melbun, I saw a paperback store, walked in, and asked if the young woman at the desk if they had a copy of Peter Carey's True History of the Kelly Gang. They did, she said, and pointed to a shelf. As I walked over to it, a voice from behind it said, "John! What brings you here??" Was a fellow I knew from Ottawa, originally from 'Straya. He had returned home, and was managing the store on behalf of his sister, the owner. Small world, eh?
58
Thorn General / Re: Mercury 40
« Last post by Matt2matt2002 on June 04, 2026, 11:11:42 AM »John:
But my Mercury (named Freddie, of course) has been a delight.
That made me spill my coffee!
My Raven is still looking at me sadly from the garage. Exercise now for me must be varied; so swimming and walking 3+ miles/day put the Raven third, I'm afraid.
But it's like having an old friend hanging around for support when needed.
Cheers from Aberdeen Scotlandshire UK
But my Mercury (named Freddie, of course) has been a delight.
That made me spill my coffee!
My Raven is still looking at me sadly from the garage. Exercise now for me must be varied; so swimming and walking 3+ miles/day put the Raven third, I'm afraid.
But it's like having an old friend hanging around for support when needed.
Cheers from Aberdeen Scotlandshire UK
59
Thorn General / Re: Mercury 40
« Last post by Moronic on June 04, 2026, 03:00:27 AM »Well, I'd say the cleverness came in when you elected to sell two excellent bicycles and replace them with a single Mercury, and if it was all about my recommendation then I'm delighted to hear it has worked out so well. I certainly don't envy anyone else their velocipede when I'm out on the trail. And the Merc is so damn versatile – not just in what it can do but in the way that it does it. A bike that can comfortably handle a camping load in four panniers shouldn't feel this lively when you're out on a day ride. And yet, as you observe, it's superb in both roles.
Here's an extra shot, this time from my most recent multi-day trip. Which I've intended to write up on here, but haven't so far. This was a three-night camping trip conducted almost exclusively on cycle trails in the north-east of my home state, Victoria, where they've converted a series of disused railways to bike paths. You'd think that would mean the route was mainly flat, but one of the lines they converted was long famed as the steepest in the southern hemisphere.
For Australians on the forum, this was the Murray to Mountains trail. We did Wangaratta to Everton, then took the climb to Beechworth and from there the descent to Yackandandah. The pic is from the return journey, a lunch-and-cuppa stop on the Yack-Beechworth leg.
Curiously, while I've tested the Mercury with four panniers, and have a low-rider Tubus rack for the front, I've not yet toured with four panniers. The loads I've carried haven't demanded that much space, and I keep seeing reasons for saving the 2kg that the front rack and twin Ortliebs add empty. But I think I will use four next time. It will be nice not to have the bags stuffed to the gills, and I think a couple of kilograms each side on the front will balance the load a bit better. There were times on this trip where the front end felt a bit light.
Getting off topic, I know. But comments about the Mercury Mk3 could be helpful for people considering a Mercury 40, which seems to be very similar.
Here's an extra shot, this time from my most recent multi-day trip. Which I've intended to write up on here, but haven't so far. This was a three-night camping trip conducted almost exclusively on cycle trails in the north-east of my home state, Victoria, where they've converted a series of disused railways to bike paths. You'd think that would mean the route was mainly flat, but one of the lines they converted was long famed as the steepest in the southern hemisphere.
For Australians on the forum, this was the Murray to Mountains trail. We did Wangaratta to Everton, then took the climb to Beechworth and from there the descent to Yackandandah. The pic is from the return journey, a lunch-and-cuppa stop on the Yack-Beechworth leg.
Curiously, while I've tested the Mercury with four panniers, and have a low-rider Tubus rack for the front, I've not yet toured with four panniers. The loads I've carried haven't demanded that much space, and I keep seeing reasons for saving the 2kg that the front rack and twin Ortliebs add empty. But I think I will use four next time. It will be nice not to have the bags stuffed to the gills, and I think a couple of kilograms each side on the front will balance the load a bit better. There were times on this trip where the front end felt a bit light.
Getting off topic, I know. But comments about the Mercury Mk3 could be helpful for people considering a Mercury 40, which seems to be very similar.
60
Bikes For Sale / Re: Thorn Nomad Mk 2 For Sale 620M
« Last post by burko on June 03, 2026, 11:39:38 AM »This is an immaculate model I purchased back in 2019 with the intention of cycling to Australia. Sadly, it managed only Lands End and Edgbaston for the cricket! It's been in dry storage ever since. The frame Geometry apparently suits someone in the 5'10'' to 6'5'' range.
It has very smooth 14 Speed Rohloff Hub gears, dynamo lights & a Brooks leather saddle. The front and back racks allow an ample load & there are lots of extras like crucial spare parts and front suspension forks if you wanted more 'off road'. SPD shoes thrown in if you're size 45. I'll possibly sell the Ortlieb panniers too. Photos should be attached hopefully.
I'm located just north of Bath in Malmesbury ( SN16 postcode ). 07500 657918. Offers close to £2000 considered.
Hi there,
Could you please advise if the bicycle is still available ?
Kind regards
Burak Soyer