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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff drivetrain wear: when to replace chain, sprocket, chainring?
« Last post by Andyb1 on May 06, 2026, 06:55:57 PM »
Hi Martin,
I think that the motorbike chain lube you have quoted would be fine on a modern motorbike chain, which is what it is designed for, keeping the side plates rust free and the roller / sprocket interface lubed - but I don’t think it would get into the rollers of a cycle chain.   The loads and speeds that a motorbike chain operates at are obviously a lot higher than on a cycle - hence it is important to keep the roller / sprocket interface clean and lubed to stop wear and heat build up.  Motorbike chain lubes also keep the O rings ‘damp’ to help reduce friction when the links move as they go around the sprockets.  It is surprising how hot an un-lubed motorbike chain can get!

I have one motorbike with a chain (I prefer shaft drive) which is a low powered 411 Royal Enfield Himalayan, used on and off road.  The chain is the OE one with O rings but I have fitted a manual chain oiler to drip ATF fluid onto the chain to ‘wash’ dust off.  I have tried using heavier gear oils but they do not clear the dust - ATF is very thin.

I have sprayed motorbike chain lube onto my cycle chain in the chainglider once.  A spray lube is quite thin until it dries, and maybe some lube got into the rollers but most seemed to go onto the outside of the chain which is not really where I wanted the lube to go!  So personally I now use a thin ‘wet’ cycle oil on my 2 bikes that have chaingliders and drip it onto the rollers.


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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff drivetrain wear: when to replace chain, sprocket, chainring?
« Last post by mickeg on May 06, 2026, 06:13:25 PM »
Quote from: Andyb1 on May 06, 2026, 12:56:20 PM
...
Motorbike chains are different to ours as they have O rings keeping the original lube inside the rollers - and dirt, water and chainlube out.   Motorbike chain lube is more to lubricate the roller / sprocket interface.
Personally I think a thinner chain oil is better on a cycle chain so it can seep into the rollers (no O rings).

I had not thought to compare bicycle chains with motorcycle chains.  My old Triumph motorcycles has a chain oiler, some of the engine oil (20W50 during most of the year) dripped on to it.  Thus, I never oiled it.  And half a century ago, there were no O rings in chains. 

I suspect that as the chain that was wrapped around the counter tooth sprocket inside the gear case at highway speed, any dirt that was not hanging onto the chain really tight got flung off of the chain at speed.  I stopped driving motorcycles a decade and a half ago.

I used to use a petroleum based lube on my bicycle chain, ranged from 20W50 to 90W140 gear lube, but it was a dust magnet.  I switched to a wax based lube about a decade ago, very happy with that. 

First attached photo shows my big chainring at the end of a tour with a lot of accumulated dust and dirt, that was shortly before I quit using a petroleum based lube.  The chain was on the middle chainring, thus hard to see the chain in the photo, but it is very clear how dirty the chain must have been for the big chainring to be that dirty.

I mostly ride my derailleur bikes, but I do not use a Chainglider on my Rohloff bike either.  I have no complaint with dripping on some wax based lube on a regular basis.

Second and third photo from a year ago, a very dusty day on a gravel trail with my Nomad Mk II.  I rode 90 miles that day for exercise, the attached photos were middle of the ride.  The chain is clean enough in my opinion, a lot cleaner since I switched to the wax based lube.

I do not try to keep track of how many miles I get on a chain.  I regularly ride four or five bikes a year. 
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff drivetrain wear: when to replace chain, sprocket, chainring?
« Last post by martinf on May 06, 2026, 03:23:25 PM »
Quote from: Andyb1 on May 06, 2026, 12:56:20 PM
Motorbike chains are different to ours as they have O rings keeping the original lube inside the rollers - and dirt, water and chainlube out.   Motorbike chain lube is more to lubricate the roller / sprocket interface.
Personally I think a thinner chain oil is better on a cycle chain so it can seep into the rollers (no O rings).

I intend to try this product :
https://www.wemoto.fr/pieces/hu4897?srsltid=AfmBOoowINysP1_XKCMyTUz_1jrHSIgqqe9KwwuhWKu3zmcDzORBnRN9
It's pretty cheap, and the ads say it's easy to apply. If it doesn't work I'll go back to oil once the factory lubricant is gone.

I don't mind opening the ChainGlider to add oil after a period of wet weather on my own bikes, but there are two bikes with ChainGliders in the park of bicycles I maintain for a nature reserve on an island.

After slightly more than a month of rain (plus a bit of salt) the one with an oil lubricated chain had the oil washed off and the chain going rusty. The other one, with the original rather sticky factory lubricant on the chain, was perfectly OK. 
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff drivetrain wear: when to replace chain, sprocket, chainring?
« Last post by Andyb1 on May 06, 2026, 12:56:20 PM »

‘At the moment I just use an oily wet lube on the chain when the manufacturer's lube has gone, but I might try a chain grease advertised for motorbikes. I tried that in the past on an unprotected chain, but it picked up a lot of road dirt so it was worse than an oily wet lube, it might work better than an oily lube under a chaincase’

Motorbike chains are different to ours as they have O rings keeping the original lube inside the rollers - and dirt, water and chainlube out.   Motorbike chain lube is more to lubricate the roller / sprocket interface.
Personally I think a thinner chain oil is better on a cycle chain so it can seep into the rollers (no O rings).
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff drivetrain wear: when to replace chain, sprocket, chainring?
« Last post by Andyb1 on May 06, 2026, 12:52:22 PM »
Quote from: martinf on May 06, 2026, 11:57:49 AM
Quote from: Andre Jute on May 06, 2026, 01:57:47 AM
A better scheme if you want to get maximum miles for your money, for when you ride from home, not on tours halfway around the world, would be to have all the chains you expect to be consumed on one side of the sprocket/chainring to hand, and to fit them in order at some routine event (a distance, cleaning the chain, whatever), so that they can all wear in evenly with the gears. It has the advantage that you don't need to know with high precision how much wear per chain is optimal, you just spread it across all the chains and the metal will tell you when the limit is reached. Martin has written about this method, though not in these terms, and I think JohnR has mentioned it too.

It was worth it for me with derailleur transmissions. The simplest way was with 2 chains, take the chain off when it needed cleaning, put the other one on, then clean and lube the one taken off ready to go back on the bike at the next change. Generally at 300 to 500 km intervals, but very weather dependent. The best I managed before having to replace the cassette was with 4 chains.


I am planning on doing similar with 2 chains:
- Chain A 0 - 5,000 miles
- Chain B 5,000 - 15,000 miles
- Chain A 15,000 - 20,000 miles or beyond………and back to Chain B again….

But at only 3,000 miles per year the 2 chains may outlast me - just reaching 9,000 miles now.
The chain that came off at 5,000 miles was grit free thanks to the chainglider so was not washed and is now stored in a bag ready for reuse.
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff drivetrain wear: when to replace chain, sprocket, chainring?
« Last post by martinf on May 06, 2026, 11:57:49 AM »
Quote from: Andre Jute on May 06, 2026, 01:57:47 AM
A better scheme if you want to get maximum miles for your money, for when you ride from home, not on tours halfway around the world, would be to have all the chains you expect to be consumed on one side of the sprocket/chainring to hand, and to fit them in order at some routine event (a distance, cleaning the chain, whatever), so that they can all wear in evenly with the gears. It has the advantage that you don't need to know with high precision how much wear per chain is optimal, you just spread it across all the chains and the metal will tell you when the limit is reached. Martin has written about this method, though not in these terms, and I think JohnR has mentioned it too.

It was worth it for me with derailleur transmissions. The simplest way was with 2 chains, take the chain off when it needed cleaning, put the other one on, then clean and lube the one taken off ready to go back on the bike at the next change. Generally at 300 to 500 km intervals, but very weather dependent. The best I managed before having to replace the cassette was with 4 chains.

Still worth it on my Bromptons - the exposed transmission close to the ground picks up more muck than on a large wheel bike.
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff drivetrain wear: when to replace chain, sprocket, chainring?
« Last post by martinf on May 06, 2026, 10:59:15 AM »
Quote from: PH on May 05, 2026, 10:03:17 PM
If we were really concerned, we'd run wider chains, in a full chaincase, in an oil bath, and expect it to last the lifetime of the bike.

Doing a version of that on my old utility bike. 1/8" TA chainring, 1/8" Sturmey-Archer sprocket and 1/8" KMC e101 chain, which is supposed to last for 10,000 kms or more (with the dedicated KMC chainring and sprocket that I don't have). Under a ChainGlider.

ChainGlider isn't quite a full chaincase, but it does protect against a lot of the muck picked up during all weather and/or off-road riding. In very wet conditions water gets in and will end up washing off the greasy coating provided by the manufacturer on the new chain. So there is still a bit of maintenance to be done, but much less than on an unprotected chain. Where I live, we had 35 consecutive rainy days in January and February 2026.

At the moment I just use an oily wet lube on the chain when the manufacturer's lube has gone, but I might try a chain grease advertised for motorbikes. I tried that in the past on an unprotected chain, but it picked up a lot of road dirt so it was worse than an oily wet lube, it might work better than an oily lube under a chaincase.
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff drivetrain wear: when to replace chain, sprocket, chainring?
« Last post by Andre Jute on May 06, 2026, 01:57:47 AM »
Quote from: Andyb1 on May 05, 2026, 08:57:52 PM
So when should chains on Rohloff geared bikes be replaced?  So that sprockets are useable with a new chain without being flipped.

Andre says he changes his at 0.5%.
Others say 1%.

The 0.5% is only a convenience, so that I change the chain at the same time as I change oil. It fits with the concept of my near-zero maintenance bike.

A better scheme if you want to get maximum miles for your money, for when you ride from home, not on tours halfway around the world, would be to have all the chains you expect to be consumed on one side of the sprocket/chainring to hand, and to fit them in order at some routine event (a distance, cleaning the chain, whatever), so that they can all wear in evenly with the gears. It has the advantage that you don't need to know with high precision how much wear per chain is optimal, you just spread it across all the chains and the metal will tell you when the limit is reached. Martin has written about this method, though not in these terms, and I think JohnR has mentioned it too.
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff drivetrain wear: when to replace chain, sprocket, chainring?
« Last post by PH on May 05, 2026, 10:03:17 PM »
Quote from: Andre Jute on May 05, 2026, 05:16:25 PM
"In theory" means I haven't tried it, among other reasons because the underlying assumption above is that all the components have roughly similar lifespans, which just isn't true
I've never heard anyone make that assumption.  The theory is it's simpler and cheaper to change all three when the first component wears out than to keep changing one to preserve the other two. That first component will inevitably be the chain and by that time the other two will be worn too far to synch with a new chain.
In the scheme of things it's no big deal, you have a chain in a case and change it at 4,500km, others like the OP and myself, do five times the distance, save the cost of four chains, then have the cost of half a chainring and sprocket.  No one is getting rich on the difference, I do prefer the simplicity of forgetting about it for years.  If we were really concerned, we'd run wider chains, in a full chaincase, in an oil bath, and expect it to last the lifetime of the bike.
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Rohloff Internal Hub Gears / Re: Rohloff drivetrain wear: when to replace chain, sprocket, chainring?
« Last post by PH on May 05, 2026, 09:43:53 PM »
Quote from: Andyb1 on May 05, 2026, 08:57:52 PM
So when should chains on Rohloff geared bikes be replaced?  So that sprockets are useable with a new chain without being flipped.

Andre says he changes his at 0.5%.
Others say 1%.
I am aiming to change my chains at 1% but that is simply based on what I have read.
You will probably get away with 1%, but if it skipped, then the sensible thing to do would be to put the old one back on.
I still don't understand why anyone would? You're throwing away chains with a lot of wear left in order to prolong the life of cheap components. You don't have the choice with a derailleur, simply because the sprockets wear at different rtes.
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