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One advantage of a front wheel hub motor is that you then have a 2 wheel drive bike, which can be useful in slippery conditions.

That's so true. I discovered twenty-odd years ago that my Gazelle Toulouse, a Dutch "vakansiefiets" (holiday bike, essentially a luxuriously fitted out commuter, too smart to leave at the station) had built-in ABS braking from the imbalance between Shimano's -43 limp rear roller brake* and a front disc brake. Nuanced brakes enabled me to set my personal downhill ton-up record on a steep downhill with a curve near the T-junction where the braking zone came to a sudden stop and step off the bike without breaking sweat, cool as a cucumber. (And the Gazelle's proprietary Switch stem, which could be set downwards, with reversed sit-up-and-beg bars, to put my back absolutely straight. The effort was also enabled by a truck, modified to suck out the air in front of me to tow me to the brow of the hill, where it pulled off before my measured run.) The pseudo-ABS enable me to brake much later and very smoothly, and come to a dead stop at the T-junction rather than go into the thorny gorse hedge across the road, for which I was prepared by wearing tight motorcycle racing leathers and helmet with a visor and HANS (a neck and head support). The limp, long obsolete -43 rear roller brake never once locked up and started sliding during the single run it took to reach a ton and change.

When I fitted the front electric motor, which I viewed as an educational tool, the impression was sharpened and reinforced: the limp rear of the bike nicely balanced the urge of the front motor and I never suffered a front washout from the extra weight in the front of the bike. Low learning curve.

*How do I know the -43 rear roller brake on the Toulouse was limp? Well, between the Toulouse and the Utopia Kranich with the hydraulic rim brakes, I acquired a Trek "Smover" which Trek Benelux had developed into a super-vakansiefiets with automatic gearbox and electronic active suspension, including front and rear the latest super-strong series -75 roller brakes, which were definitely not limp. In the end I came to hate them as requiring too much of the rider's attention even at the slow speed of a social ride, and at high speed they were more of a threat to the rider than the potholes, which really says something!

When I fitted a mid-motor to a newer bike, which had other advantages, I lost the ABS trick because it didn't occur to me in time to fit the then-available less strong Magura hydraulic rim brake at the rear and the strong one at the front, instead choosing the less strong -11 (today only cosmetically different from the more expensive -22) at both ends of the bike because I'm not a commuter riding between cars that may suddenly stop, but needed security from over-strong brakes or over-sudden brakes putting me in the ditch or over the handlebars on the curvaceous fast but rough downhills.

The regulars probably know what these bikes and components look like; passersby can see these bikes, including close-ups of the Shimano roller brakes and Magura rim hydraulics, at http://www.coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html

As an aside in keeping with the subject of this thread, a front motor lets you keep your favorite chainring, whereas a central motor is likely to require a dished chainring if you want to keep a straight chainline, and the dished rings may need more teeth to fit over the motor. For those of us who loved the 38x16 transmission, this could cause complication and expense because both chainring and sprocket may have to be changed to keep the transmission ratio the same as you're accustomed to. If on top of that you're a Chainglider aficionado, that adds a further layer of complication -- for a solution, check Martin's installation described above using the non-Rohloff Chainglider sprocket cover to custom-tune the transmission ratio. I didn't find this a big deal because previous unassisted cycling had made me relatively fit, so with the centre motor I replaced only the chainring with an inexpensive dished steel ring (I have good experience of steel chainrings, which I can't say for aluminium), and left the sprocket in place complete with the approved sprocket cover, and simply bought a new front Chainglider section, and presto! the chainline was not disturbed. I wish you the same luck!
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One advantage of a front wheel hub motor is that you then have a 2 wheel drive bike, which can be useful in slippery conditions.
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I checked Ryde website, https://www.ryde.nl , a search for CSS only found some references to history.

I would be surprised if they are made again.  I suspect that SJS found some new old stock.
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General Technical / Re: Fitting a Bor Yeuh Front Low Rider Rack
« Last post by AdrianStone on July 30, 2026, 08:31:26 PM »
Hi Adrian,
Interesting that you say on your link that you have converted the bike from 26” to 700c rims.
What are your thoughts about this change?
What 700c tyre size are you using?

Sorry for the really late reply.  The wheels were changed before I got the bike, the tyres are 32mm Pasela Protite's, previously Pasela Tourguards. I don't have any experience of riding other bikes, but it feels great to me and I think it looks really good too :)
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General Technical / Re: Fitting a Bor Yeuh Front Low Rider Rack
« Last post by AdrianStone on July 30, 2026, 08:23:11 PM »
It's not too clear from your photographs but it looks as though the hoop is secured with P clips, and it may be wrongly assembled.

Is it possible to completely removed the hoop and swap the two pannier supports left to right. You should then be able to refit the hoop on the outside of the pannier supports.

So sorry, catching up. I'd not thought of that, I'll give it a go, thanks for the idea
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Transmission / Re: Matching sprocket and chainring to your cadence and heart rate
« Last post by martinf on July 30, 2026, 08:03:51 PM »
BTW, Martin, a central motor installation isn't all that much more expensive than a front motor. It's the bigger battery you need when you go from a lower power front motor to a beefier mid-motor that raises the comparable cost appreciably. Also, the front motor that I had, despite its reputation as the Little Hill Climber, seemed more lightweight than the central motor, in every aspect but especially the control electronics, which were clearly not an in-house production in the case of the front motor. It might be that the front motor was built light to earn its title on the hills. Don't get me wrong. The front Bafang motor lasted lonhrt than any of my Nexus boxes, and the central Bafang motor seems likely to see me out, so I don't have any complaint about value received; I'll buy Bafang again, if necessary. But, if you're planning to make a permanent installation in the first instance, I suggest the central motor would be more satisfactory in the long term. The reason I made a sacrificial front installation was because there was very little known about these motors at the time (except for power-crazy Americans building electric motorbikes), so I was educating myself, but that no longer applies. There's a lot of experience of electrical motors on bicycles on this forum and elsewhere.

Cost isn't much of an issue. OZO is a French supplier who seems to know their subject, they assemble their own batteries using Panasonic cells and supply batteries for several different uses (electric bikes, small boats, storage batteries to allow stockage and restitution of electricity from solar panels). They also have a stock of spare parts to rebuild and maintain Bafang motors.

From OZO, a complete 250W 40nm front wheel motor kit costs nearly as much as a BBS01 Bafang 250W 80nm mid-motor kit. The mid-motor kit is heavier, with double the rated torque. The front motor kit is simpler, so easier to install and probably also to maintain, and about 2.5 kg lighter. Weight on an electric bike isn't really an issue for me. But I would like to try and convince my wife to try an electric bike, and she finds a light bike easier to handle.

I have already ridden about 180 kms on the 2 second-hand mid-motor electric bikes I sourced for the nature reserve. These have the Bafang M200 integrated motor, which is similar to the BBS01. Performance of these bikes is quite sufficient for what I think I will need from an electric bike.

But I still intend to try a hire bike with a front-wheel motor to see what the advantages and disadvantages of each system are while riding.
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Thorn General / In the beginning publicity photos and information
« Last post by AdrianStone on July 30, 2026, 08:00:29 PM »
I've had a lovely read through the stickies which has been really interesting, and must have been a real labour of love to put together.

Is there anything, anywhere publicity or bike spec-wise which goes back to the earliest days of Thorn?  I've tried looking for information on my Club Tour, which I understand was built in 1995, but just cannot find anything.

Can anyone help with any snippets of information?

Thanks in advance  :)
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Thorn General / Re: Early Club Tour rims
« Last post by AdrianStone on July 30, 2026, 05:10:25 PM »
A bit late in the day, but I thought I'd best write a follow up.

I opted to change the combined brake/shifter levers on the flat (butterfly) bars for cantilever specific ones, a Shimano Deore LX M567 3x8 Speed Shifter and Brake Lever Set and update the cantilevers to Shimano Altus BR-CT91.  The bike brakes and shifts beautifully now :) though at some additional cost, but I'm enjoying it.

Thanks for all the advice and help
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It looks like CSS rims have been resurrected and are back in stock by SJS. Pros and cons but I’ll be selecting them when I next need a wheel rebuild.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rims-tape/rigida-grizzly-26-559-mtb-css-rim-black-36-hole/
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Thanks for reminding me, Martin:

I should've mentioned that the constraint behind my choices of chainring tooth counts is those that take Chaingliders, which are simply too useful to give up for some notionally "perfect" gear ratio; there is always another way to skin a cat.

And equally, I aim at cruising at my comfortable cadence of 40rpm on the level in gear 11, which is a 1:1 ratio, saving overdrive gears 12, 13 and 14 for fast downhills. Not that I'm on the flat all that often, but if you set up a Rohloff so that 11 is your most used gear, a lot of other possibilities fall into place -- for instance, after I fitted an electric motor, I could avoid the Rohloff's lower 7 gears by using the motor's software "gears" if I wanted to, though I don't.

You may ask why I worked up a complicated table for myself with a cadence of 60rpm when I'm comfortable at 40rpm. The answer is that 60rpm multiplied by 60 minutes in an hour has a red notch on a pilot's slide rule, and I'm comfortable working mental arithmetic on a base of 3600. For instance, 40rpm is 2/3 of 60rpm, so I eyeball a number, say a speed, on a different table and can instantly see how realistic it is; or I could argue that 2/3 of 3600 is 2400, which is pretty close to a quarter of 10,000, actually 9600, close enough for a first approximation or a check that you're working in the right direction; you can see that it makes mentally shifting the decimal point a lot easier. Martin's cadence of 90rpm is one and a half times 60rpm, so the result should run in the other direction, an easy division by two and then adding the product back to the base, result same as multiplying by 1.5. To be clear, I don't have the eyes any more for the small print on slide rules or the rotating slide rule bezel around a few of my watches, but I don't really need to see them; from long use I effortlessly picture them in my mind's eye. I fondled my pocket Pickett a bit and then slid it back into its leather sheath.

***
BTW, Martin, a central motor installation isn't all that much more expensive than a front motor. It's the bigger battery you need when you go from a lower power front motor to a beefier mid-motor that raises the comparable cost appreciably. Also, the front motor that I had, despite its reputation as the Little Hill Climber, seemed more lightweight than the central motor, in every aspect but especially the control electronics, which were clearly not an in-house production in the case of the front motor. It might be that the front motor was built light to earn its title on the hills. Don't get me wrong. The front Bafang motor lasted longer than any of my Nexus boxes, and the central Bafang motor seems likely to see me out, so I don't have any complaint about value received; I'll buy Bafang again, if necessary. But, if you're planning to make a permanent installation in the first instance, I suggest the central motor would be more satisfactory in the long term. The reason I made a sacrificial front installation was because there was very little known about these motors at the time (except for power-crazy Americans building electric motorbikes), so I was educating myself, but that no longer applies. There's a lot of experience of electrical motors on bicycles on this forum and elsewhere.
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