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Cycle Tours / Re: Do you match one another's pace when you tour with a friend?
« Last post by mickeg on Today at 01:40:50 AM »
I have done several tours with a former co-worker and friend.  He trains for a bike tour with interval training, but never more than an hour.  I instead do a lot of long distance endurance types of training.

So, on a tour, I have trouble keeping up with him during the first hour.  After two hours, he is lagging and I stop on occasion to give him a chance to catch up.  And after 30 miles, he is exhausted.  But when I do solo tours, sometimes I have 60 to 80 mile days where my occasional touring partner has trouble making 40 miles. 

That is one reason that I have done several solo tours.
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Cycle Tours / Re: Do you match one another's pace when you tour with a friend?
« Last post by dogcart on August 21, 2026, 11:54:43 PM »
My friend and I have been hiking, mountaineering, caving and more recently cycle touring for over 40 years. We have a disparity in leg lengths and height so tend to move at different speeds over the same terrain. Trying to match each others pace is uncomfortable (my friend jogging to keep up with my long legs on the downhill and me realising long levers are at a disadvantage on steep uphill ground)
On the whole I tend to be bringing up the rear overall so to ensure I'm not abandoned I carry the food!
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General Technical / Re: Brooks saddle
« Last post by hendrich on August 19, 2026, 02:31:59 PM »
Quote from: Andre Jute on August 15, 2026, 07:47:16 AM
If you're worried about the appearance of your clearly neglected saddle, buy some neat foot oil from your local saddlery (more £$%^&* horses), pour the contents of the can into a baking dish or a bowl large enough to take the saddle and soak first the top and then bottom in the neat foot oil, 10-20 minutes per side.

This could be useful some day. When you say top/bottom, does that mean you are first putting the whole top half of the saddle in oil and therefore also soaking the underside? After both sides are done, the entire saddle has been submerged in oil. After that, do you wipe off excess oil... and then let dry for a few days?
Thanks, Mike

edit, our saddles have always received TLC, just thought this soaking might be good to know about.
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General Technical / Re: On the biplane crown: what does it add to the bike's stiffness?
« Last post by B cereus on August 19, 2026, 08:33:11 AM »
Quote from: PH on August 17, 2026, 10:34:54 PM

The rational for not offering the geometry (Though they now publish more than before) is the argument that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. 

That’s a fair point; an extended test ride will tell you far more than any geometry table. But in other matters they’ve never been unwilling to share their wisdom via the Touring Bike Bible. And it doesn’t stop people like us speculating. At least if these numbers were more readily available, this discussion would be better informed, not to mention useful for potential customers who know how to apply them.
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General Technical / Re: On the biplane crown: what does it add to the bike's stiffness?
« Last post by PH on August 17, 2026, 10:34:54 PM »
Quote from: B cereus on August 17, 2026, 04:11:30 PM
hint that they alone amongst bicycle manufacturers fully understand the relationship between head angle and fork offset that governs perfect handling. I really don’t buy that.
That they would offer a 370 and 410mm length fork for the same frame, does seem to make a mockery of that idea. 
The rational for not offering the geometry (Though they now publish more than before) is the argument that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.  There is some truth in this, I have seen people comparing TT lengths without HT and ST angles, with no understanding how each effects the other. Weight is the other big one of course, if a frame is designed to do a task well, it'll weigh what it weighs. I went to an entertaining talk by a renowned frame builder some years ago, he said that the two most frequently asked questions were wheelbase and weight and that both were the result of design not a part of it.
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General Technical / Re: On the biplane crown: what does it add to the bike's stiffness?
« Last post by PH on August 17, 2026, 10:24:51 PM »
Quote from: Andyb1 on August 17, 2026, 04:07:57 PM
Just to confuse a little more, another page on the SJS website says that the RT can have an 80 or 100mm suspension fork fitted!  I have no idea what the loaded / unloaded L1 range of that would be.
An 80mm fork for 26" wheels is typically 450, the neutral position, -80/2 =410
A 100mm would be 470, -100/2 = 420
Good sus forks would allow you to lock them out at the mid position for road use. 
Quote
I was surprised that the Nomad frameset I bought a few years ago could be used with 26”, 650 or 700c wheels.
it was designed for 26/650, if you go up a tyre size in 26" there's not a lot of difference to the wheel circumference or stand over height.  The 700c idea came about after they'd received them.  I built mine up 700c, I already had the wheels, I wouldn't say it was bad, but the BB was very high, and the handling slow, no one would design a 700c bike with such little BB drop, I rebuilt mine as 650b and it's much better. 
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General Technical / Re: On the biplane crown: what does it add to the bike's stiffness?
« Last post by B cereus on August 17, 2026, 04:11:30 PM »
I’ve never understood why thorn have always been so coy about publishing geometry tables for their frames. Critical numbers that are conspicuously absent include both head and seat tube angles. Thorn claims it’s commercially sensitive information, and hint that they alone amongst bicycle manufacturers fully understand the relationship between head angle and fork offset that governs perfect handling. I really don’t buy that.

In fairness their customer care goes above and beyond, and they do offer extended test rides for Rohloff equipped bikes and a generous 100-day money back guarantee. I was a bit surprised to see that test rides for derailleur equipped bikes are not now available, and the money back guarantee only extends to 14 days. I’m sure this wasn’t previously the case.
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General Technical / Re: On the biplane crown: what does it add to the bike's stiffness?
« Last post by Andyb1 on August 17, 2026, 04:07:57 PM »
Just to confuse a little more, another page on the SJS website says that the RT can have an 80 or 100mm suspension fork fitted!  I have no idea what the loaded / unloaded L1 range of that would be.
It seems like the RT was designed with a very docile geometry so will tolerate a range of fork lengths.

Perhaps frame design is more of an art than a science, with interactions between rear stay lengths, frame angles, fork lengths, tyre and wheel sizes  etc not always possible to predict.

I was surprised that the Nomad frameset I bought a few years ago could be used with 26”, 650 or 700c wheels.
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General Technical / Re: On the biplane crown: what does it add to the bike's stiffness?
« Last post by PH on August 17, 2026, 02:30:16 PM »
Quote from: Andyb1 on August 16, 2026, 08:42:52 PM
My Raven Tour came with a biplane fork with L1 = 410mm but shorter unicrown forks with L1 = 370mm appear to have been an option - reference from Test of Raven Tour on SJS website.  ‘Our Tour came with twin plate 531 ST forks…….a shorter 531 fork is also an option’
If it works for you, it works, I remain sceptical that the designer ever intended for forks of that difference to be fitted. It's the equivalent of a 2 degree head tube angle change, and the resulting difference in trail, I'd notice that.
However, that wasn't my point. Which was the forks were 410mm because that's the length the designer wanted them to be, not because of the crown chosen.  He probably chose that length as it offers the option to swap out for short travel sus forks.
The Raven Sport had considerably different geometry, the shorter fork had the option to be swapped out for an off the peg carbon fork.  When the Tour and Sport merged into the Raven, the 370 cast crown fork was kept and the 410 twin plate dropped.
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General Technical / Re: On the biplane crown: what does it add to the bike's stiffness?
« Last post by Andyb1 on August 16, 2026, 08:42:52 PM »
Quote from: PH on August 14, 2026, 11:48:10 PM
Quote from: Andyb1 on August 13, 2026, 09:19:25 PM
Not sure I understand all of that…..but the basic problem with the longer biplane fork for me was that it raised the bottom bracket height too much.  The alternative 40mm shorter Thorn fork I now use allows me to have the correct pedal - seat distance and still be able to get a foot safely down when stopping.  Essential on sloping ground and when carrying luggage.  I am sure both fork types are well strong enough for my riding speeds and style!
Forks are measured crown race to axle (C>A) that's the only length that effects geometry, it makes no difference how much of that is crown and how much blade.  I think there must have been some misunderstanding with your bike, I doubt Thorn has ever offered forks with a 40mm difference intended for the same frame.

My Raven Tour came with a biplane fork with L1 = 410mm but shorter unicrown forks with L1 = 370mm appear to have been an option - reference from Test of Raven Tour on SJS website.  ‘Our Tour came with twin plate 531 ST forks…….a shorter 531 fork is also an option’
The RST used the shorter unicrown fork (for sharper handling?) and Thorn were happy to sell me the shorter fork when I cycled into them and explained the problem of high BB.
Did the RST have the same frame geometry as the Tour?   I know it used lighter tubes in places.
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