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1
Starting a new thread.  This is an update, with a few questions.

***

Made airline reservations to arrive in Edinburgh, morning of Jun 3.

Plan to take the tram from airport to a stop about 500 feet from the hostel, hike to hostel.

Reservation to stay at Edinburgh Central hostel Jun 3 thru morning Jun 6.  That gives me time to adjust for a couple days to a change of six time zones.  Probably will buy a little bit of food, but not much.  Buy a sim card.  Assemble bike.  Wander about in town playing tourist.  Try to learn how to understand the local dialect.

Reservation for myself and bike on LNER train to London, leaves at 9am, Jun 6.  I have a bag that I should be able to use for my one large piece of luggage on the train.  I will have to get up early that day so that I have time to get to the train station early enough to repack my luggage for the train luggage rules at the train station where my four panniers have to magically become one piece of luggage.

Have reservation for YHA hostel in London, Earls Court Jun 6 thru morning Jun 8.  About a six mile bike ride from the train station.  That only leaves one day for sightseeing in London, and I think some of that will be buying food (Sainsbury) and stove fuel (Decathlon).  Hostel was full for the night of Jun 9, that is what limits my time in London.  So, I might not see much.

Then wander about on my bike for about five weeks.  I expect to follow the routing plan from PH on this forum (cyclinguk.org) to Scotland, likely to Edinburgh.  But might instead go to Glasgow from London.  If I go to Edinburgh, my next stop after that is Glasgow. 

For some of the route, I might instead use this track, if I want a change of pace.
https://bikepacking.com/routes/great-north-trail-uk/

I previously mentioned a route that I found on RideWithGPS, that route is in my GPS if I suddenly think about it again.

I previously mentioned John O Groats, that has been dropped from my plan.

I put a bunch of campgrounds into my GPS that I identified from ukcampsite.co.uk along the route from London to the north.  I do know that Google Maps and Open Streets Maps are somewhat lacking in accurate data for campgrounds, avoiding those sources.

The new plan is probably to wander about in Scotland after I have left England to see the sights.  I mapped out a few different routes that all start in Glasgow.   My niece's hubby suggests I see Isle of Arran, that is a maybe, I see they have a hostel there.  It looks like https://campingscotland.com is a go-to website for finding campgrounds in Scotland. 

I made a total of four routes out of Glasgow, two through Isle of Arran, two passes Loch Ness.  I have put every hostelingscotland.org.uk hostel in Scotland into my GPS.  I also put campgrounds into it too while I am at home and can use a computer with two screens to sort things out.  The longest stretch where I lack lodging is starting at Isle of Arran for 76 miles, that could be a very long day.  I also that in Scotland, wild camping is allowed in open areas, but I hope I do not need to use that option.

Some of the routes, I will have to go up to five days between grocery stores, I plan to bring contingency foods for zero days with high winds too, thus likely to sometimes carry a week of food on the bike.  I put some grocery stores into my GPS too.

I attached a screen print of my various routings from Mapsource.  From what I saw planning this out, I might mostly stay in campgrounds in England and then mostly in hostels in Scotland.  But after Inverness down to Edinburgh, that would be in campgrounds.

I made a fifth plan as a continency, if I somehow get behind schedule, I have a bailout route plotted that bypasses Loch Ness and Inverness to get me to Edinburgh faster from western Scotland.

At the end of my trip I have a reservation for Edinburgh Central hostel Jul 13 to 16.  Gives me time to see more sights there, pack up my bike in the S&S case, etc.  Then fly home, leave EDI late morning of July 16.

***

I have a few questions:


Finance:

(Note:  I am using acronyms USD for US Dollar, GBP for British Pounds.)

I understand that leaving tips at restaurants in the 10 percent range is appropriate if you have table service, but if you order at a bar or order fast food, no tip is warranted.  And tips are best in cash, not on credit cards.  Sometimes a gratuity is added and then it is listed on the bill, in which case no tip warranted.  If I am in error, please advise.

I plan to get about 50 GBP from an ATM on my first day there, if you think I should get more, please tell me?

I plan to have a couple credit cards and a debit card.  Plus backups that are packed away.  I do not use a phone for payment (do not use something like Apple Pay), only the cards.

It is my understanding that almost all places that I will make a purchase are happy to take credit cards, that I will need to carry only minimal cash.  Is this correct?  Is this also accurate for smaller family run campgrounds, or should I expect to need cash for some of those?


Communication:

I put the Met Office android app on my phone.  Is that an adequate source of weather forecasts?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.gov.metoffice.weather.android

I occasionally use WUnderground for weather forecasts too, so don't bother mentioning that one to me.  I have their app on my phone. 

I anticipate using Met Office for short term (day or two) forecast, but WUnderground for longer range forecasts.

I am leaning towards buying a local sim card for my phone, it is my understanding that EE has the best coverage for rural areas.  I attached two graphics for EE cell service coverage, second one is an expanded one of Scotland.  Cell phone service, looking at coverage maps I should have good service in south half of UK.  But coverage gets worse further north.  In Scotland, the maps suggest excellent coverage near Edinburgh and Glasgow, also good coverage along main roads, poor elsewhere.  If I go to Isle of Arran, I will not have cell service for a few days.
https://ee.co.uk/mobile/pay-as-you-go-sim-only

My phone is a dual sim global model, has frequencies to work everywhere.  If anyone thinks that getting an EE sim card is a mistake, I would like to know why?  I expect to buy the EE sim card at a store about 0.6 miles from the Edinburgh Central hostel on day one.


Lodging:

Hostels, I expect in Edinburgh and Glasgow that the hostels will often fill up in summer.  But the more distant ones in Scotland that are far off the beaten path, should I be able to show up without reservations most of the time?  Map of hostels in Scotland at:
https://www.hostellingscotland.org.uk/inspiration/view-all-hostels/

I only put the blue hostels on the map into my GPS.


Other:

I have no routing or sightseeing questions at this time.  Just my cash plan and phone plan questions.

If I said anything here that suggests I have a bad plan, please let me know.

Even though I expect to be on pavement (tarmac), I plan to use 55mm or 57mm tires.


Note to Matt2Matt2002, you asked the dates I am in Edinburgh, Jun 3 - 6 (the 6th I leave early).  And Jul 13 - 16, leave early morning of 16th, packing bike on the 15th.

***
2

Bought in August 2017 direct from Thorn as a bare frame, built up with the detailed spec below, including Shimano Di2 electronic gears. The S&S couplings mean the frame can be separated and boxed small enough to avoid extra airline charges.

The bike is in excellent condition and used only for one tour of 1,220 km in Thailand in 2018, and another of 809 km in France in 2019.  It had less than 100 miles of bedding-in rides in the UK, in dry weather only.

Electronic gears were chosen to take pressure off my arthritic thumbs and worked superbly but as my arthritis has progressed I’ve been unable to ride it more recently.   

Can be fitted with straight, curved or drop handlebars to suit the buyer.

PRICE: £1,600 ovno plus delivery. Or collect. The parts for the Di2 gears alone cost £1,120 and the S & S couplings £700 (2017 prices). Picture below and more available on request: email mail@cathyhowieson.co.uk


The frame size is 475M for 52cm forks, reckoned by Thorn to be suitable for men or women from 1.49 to 1.57 m tall in bare feet (4'11" to 5'2"). BUT Thorn also recommended it for my 5ft 4in height. The 'stand-over height' is approx. 71.5cm (2'4"). If you can get to the Edinburgh or Kinross areas, you can have a trial fit on an indoor trainer and/or a trial ride.

The frame is Thorn 969 double-butted, seamless, heat-treated, cold-drawn, Cro-Mo steel, with not a chip or other mark on the paintwork anywhere, even underneath the bottom bracket, chainstay.  The blue paint on either side of the top tube is very faintly yellowed and so is barely visible in the photos, however it’s only fair to mention it here.


COLLECTION / DELIVERY: if you cannot collect the bike, it will be sent by a courier service. If so, the bike will be supplied partly dismantled in a bike box (wheels off, pedals off, handlebar twisted round, or off, etc) If you live within about 100 miles or so of Edinburgh, we will be happy to deliver it, fully built-up, for cost of fuel only.

Security: as this is a valuable bike, it has a hidden, non-removable RFI 'Immobitag' which means if lost or stolen, police can trace its registered owner - registration will be transferred free of charge to the new owner. If sent by courier, a tracker will also be placed in the box.

Detailed specification:

frame & fork:
Thorn Sherpa MK3 Frame - blue - 475M for 52 mm forks - in 969 double-butted, seamless, heat-treated, cold-drawn, Cro-Mo steel.  Frame number SH475M1603
Frame fitted with S&S couplers, special spanner included.  Rear brake cable fitted with JTek cable splitter/coupler to facilitate disassembly and reassembly of the frame.
26" Thorn ST26 steel fork - blue - 52 mm offset

wheels:
26"/ 559 aluminium 36-hole rims in black: front MX Mach 1 Evo2 with Shimano Deore hub; rear KC Comp on KX hub
tyres: Schwalbe Marathon Supreme HS382 Folding Tyre - 26 x 1.60 Inch , 42-559

drivetrain:
3x11 speed ultra-wide gearing, 165 mm cranks, giving a huge overall range of approximately 17 to 108 gear-inches, more details below
KMC 11 speed chain with “missing link” connector, near-new and less than 1.5% wear (see picture)
Shimano XT CS-M8000 11 Speed Cassette - 11-40T
Spa Cycles 104/64 PCD triple crankset, silver, forged alloy 165mm cranks, 48/38/30T
bottom bracket: 68mm shell English thread sealed cartridge taper spindle

di2 electronic gear system:
Shimano SW-R671 TT shifters, chosen as they are easily operated with fingers, mounted on custom brackets and readily re-positioned to suit rider
Shimano FD-M9050 front derailleur, mounted on Shimano SM-FD905-H high clamp adapter
Shimano RD-M9050 rear derailleur, mounted on Wolftooth Roadlink to extend cassette capacity
Shimano DN-110A battery, mounted inside downtube just above lower S&S joint
Shimano SC-MT800 information display, handlebar mounted, shows selected gear, enables choice of synchro shift 1, synchro shift 2, or manual shift, plus wireless connection, battery charging port, derailleur adjustment etc
Shimano 4-port di2 junction B, mounted inside downtube just below lower S&S joint
Shimano di2 wires throughout, routed internally where possible, with extra protection for external cables (“spirowrap”)
Shimano SM-BCR2 battery charging adapter and PC link interface – mains powered, USB socket for charging lead or connection to windows PC (leads included)
Shimano TL-EW02 wire connection/disconnection tool

brakes:
Shimano ST-MC12 mechanical brake levers, right and left, with mechanical gear-shifters removed
Shimano Altus cantilever brakes, front and rear, with Aztec brake blocks
SKS chromoplastic Mudguards - 26 Inch - P55 – Silver (a bit weathered but not cracked or split)

rear pannier: Blackburn alloy rack in black

saddle:
new Terry Butterfly Gel woman’s

handlebar:
traditional swept back horizontal style. But you can choose one of the alternative handlebars I have (drop, bullhorn, Dutch) and my partner will fit before sale, NO cost for the fitting.
3
Agree on the liner.

I only rarely wash down sleeping bags.  A USA specific camping store chain used to sell their own brand of soap for washing down stuff, when they discontinued the soap and put it on a clearance price, I bought a lifetime supply.  There are other brands of soap that is recommended for washing down.

I use a top loading washing machine, that is all I have.  But I think that front loading machines are suggested for washing down.  I will put the item (sleeping bag or winter parka) in the machine and try to compress it by hand as much as I can when I run the water (cold) into the machine so that bag does not all float to the top.  I then (after filling) try to squeeze as much air out of the bag as I can so the bag is not just floating on top.

Wash on delicate. 

Sometimes I have done a double rinse, you do not want to have soap residue in the down, that can prevent the down from fully fluffing up.

After rinse and spin, I will do a high speed spin to try to get as much water out of the bag as I can.

Only then when there is very little water left in it, I will lift the bag out.  If there is too much water in the bag, lifting it can tear out internal baffles.

I put it on a rack and use a fan to blow air at it.  Once it is dried out, then I put it in a clothes dryer on air only (no heat), plus a few tennis balls or maybe a tennis shoe to try to agitate the down and break up any clumps in it.  That is noisy, but a rubber sole tennis shoe won't break anything.

Optional, there are some down enhancements for sale these days that are supposed to make your down more water resistant, that is applied after washing but before drying.

I was pretty sure I kept a record of which sleeping bags I had washed and when, but I do not find it on my hard drive so perhaps I don't have records?

4
WorldTourer's advice to always use a liner and avoid washing is good.

However, I would hate to throw out a still useable bag, so I have washed my 1978 vintage 3 season down bag once. The washing part is easy with the appropriate soap product, it was a long time ago so I have forgotten the brand. Drying is more difficult.

An example of up to date instructions for washing and drying a down bag here:
https://www.mountain-equipment.com/pages/caring-for-down-sleeping-bags

I didn't notice any appreciable difference after washing the down bag, which for a long time was my only sleeping bag. I used it with a lightweight cotton liner until I got a thermal liner.

About 15 years ago I got a lightweight synthetic bag, which is better for me for summer use as it is cooler. I now have two sleeping bags, a quilt and a thermal liner:

- LightLine 3-season down bag. 880g and the bulkiest. For cool weather camping.
- Lightweight synthetic bag. 520g and less bulky. For warmer weather camping and indoors if not too hot.
- Gramexpert synthetic quilt. 352g, packs very small. When it is too hot for the synthetic bag. Also good if sleeping on a camping mattress inside a building.
- Sea To Summit Thermolite Reactor inner liner. 250g, packs very small. This is warmer than a cotton liner and easier to wash/dry, in really hot weather, this is often enough on its own, but I always have at least the quilt in case I need it.

Nowadays I always take the Thermolite liner. Depending on expected conditions I add one of the sleeping bags and/or the quilt. The quilt can be used without a sleeping bag, or as an extra layer over one of the sleeping bags. I haven't yet needed it over the down bag.

Liner, quilt and synthetic bag is about the same weight and overall bulk as liner and down bag, but is more versatile so long as it doesn't get really cold.




5
I would never wash a down bag. No matter what precautions you take, they inevitably come out with less loft. I always use a sleeping liner to avoid bags themselves getting very dirty, and when they eventually seem dirty nevertheless, I just purchase a new bag. You might want to look at the quilts from Cumulus, they are affordable and a nice design that packs up into less space than the full bags of old.
6
Hi folks.
Time to check out my camping kit in prep for a few mini Summer trips.

I have a Robens Down Lite 500 sleeping bag. UK purchased.

11+ years old. First used on my Pamir trip 2015 and subsequent UK trips.
No issues with the bag; zip still zips!

It looks in good shape and has been stored open in a dry area.
I think it's time for a clean rather than an airing.
The wash guide has faded away but I can see ' Duck Down 80%'.

Any thoughts? Dry clean or hand wash with a special detergent?

Matt
7
Bikes For Sale / Re: Thorn Sherpa - XL for drops, needs assembly/work
« Last post by tt2cycletours on April 19, 2026, 09:43:07 AM »
Sherpa rebuild almost complete: just needs racks, mudguards and lights. Anyone interested on here?

Will post list of components: new rear wheel, v-brakes, chain, rear cassette, front derailleur, stem, bar tape, cables, chain (plus Wipperman link) and seat post.

8
Bikes For Sale / Re: Raven Discovers Twin
« Last post by silverdorking on April 16, 2026, 09:20:53 AM »
Thanks very much for this heads up!
9
Non-Thorn Related / Re: What could possibly go wrong!
« Last post by in4 on April 16, 2026, 08:21:05 AM »
...probably intellectually too  ;D
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Non-Thorn Related / Re: What could possibly go wrong!
« Last post by Danneaux on April 15, 2026, 07:32:23 PM »
These DIY clickbait videos usually involve extracting free energy, perpetual motion, or wifi from thin air and almost always use electrical tape, hot glue, heat from a torch or lighter and a spark plug to do so.

This clever fellow's effort will never work...he's missing the spark plug!

Best, Dan.
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