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General Technical / Re: Brooks saddle
« Last post by Danneaux on Today at 02:09:22 AM »
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Americans have a similar leather wax with a good reputation from vintage times forward, the name of which now escapes me.

Andre, John, there is another option I have used to waterproof leather for 55 years: Sno-Seal.

The tin promises leather protection from rain, snow, salt, sun; the original beeswax waterproofing. Mile warmth helpt it absorb, excess is buffed off with a clean, soft cloth. Instructions say, "Beeswax waterproofing lubricates leather and protects against dryiomg and deterioriation far longer than greases, oils, and animal fats. Sno-Seal is a natural wax and, unlike other products, will never weaken, decay, or break down leather or stitchings and seams. Caution: Will somewhat darken leather; spot test if appearance is important". I have found Sno-Seal to be a valuable adjunct for use on my black saddles. I have not used it on my one Honey Brown model as I don't want it to darken as much as I know it would with Sno-Seal.

See...
https://atsko.com/product/sno-seal-wax-8-oz-jar/
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sno+seal&channelId=520&clpRedir=Y&plpRedirect=mhFallback

Available from Amazon Canada as well... https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=Sno-Seal&crid=F5Z4IT6ASXZH&sprefix=sno-sea%2Caps%2C363&ref=nb_sb_noss_2 I think it is too pricey due to the added tariffs and would not buy it on principle if I lived outside my borders.

I always treat my Brooks leather saddles first with Proofide (now white cream, I preferred the older red formula that smelled much stronger), then after some use, Sno-Seal for regular winter riding. I lay on a thin coat of Sno-Seal to guard against water drops in between my dismounts and slapping on the saddle cover (I don't ride on the cover per Brooks' caution, as Andre notes). I have found the Sno-Seal polishes out to a high gloss under my cycling shorts, then thins out and needs reapplication in time. It lasts longer in winter when I ride less often. I use it primarily on the Brooks B.17 fitted to my commuter Fixie. I don't use it in summer when I am likely to produce a lot more sweat and a "waterproofed" saddle has much less appeal.

Best, Dan.
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General Technical / Re: Brooks saddle
« Last post by Andre Jute on October 23, 2026, 11:43:16 PM »
Obenauf's, definitely. Widely recommended by American cyclists of the Sheldon Brown vintage, but not available this side of the Atlantic. Thanks, John.

Mike, on this forum some years ago, I expressed some mild disappointment that a Brooks waxed canvas seat cover wore rather fast when I sat upon it in the rain, and was told one isn't supposed to sit on it. I bought a plastic shower cap instead and sat on that when cycling in the rain.
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General Technical / Re: Brooks saddle
« Last post by John Saxby on October 23, 2026, 09:25:37 PM »
Andre, WRT your comment above, Americans have a similar leather wax with a good reputation from vintage times forward, the name of which now escapes me:

You may be thinking of Obenauf's (a company based in Idaho), which makes Leather Oil and a paste. They advertise their products for forestry workers and firefighters.  I used their products for leathers and boots when I was riding motorcycles.  I still have a couple of bottles of Leather Oil, which I've used on my Brooks B17 (now 15 years old) -- an annual end-of-season wipe with a Leather-Oily-rag seems to work a treat.  (Mind you, anytime I'm riding in wet weather, I use a cover for my saddle.)

'Cos of The Situation, I won't be buying any more any time soon, but Mike, you may find it useful.
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Non-Thorn Related / Jim Wilson, War Hero & Legendary Bike and Frame Builder
« Last post by Andre Jute on October 23, 2026, 01:13:29 AM »
Just now appearing on a literary group I run, notice of a biography of war hero and legendary bike builder Jim Wilson in the Sheffield Star:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/indieauthorsinternational/permalink/29028059490166265/
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"He Hath Courage"  World War 2 Hero and Legendary Sheffield bike and frame builder who 'lived the life of 10 men'

Check out the photo of him wearing a military woolly pully and a tie while working on a frame, VOSC (Very Old School Craftsman).

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Non-Thorn Related / Re: Mounting a Carradice Camper Longflap on a rear rack.
« Last post by mickeg on October 20, 2026, 04:19:40 PM »
You can buy inexpensive front racks designed to mount on the canti brake posts for small items.  I put one on my Sherpa, photo attached is years old.

I have not tried this myself, but someone on a different forum mentioned this possibility several years ago.  There is no reason that you can't use the same type of rack on back if you have canti brake posts to mount the rack.  That can keep your saddlebag off of the rear tire.
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Non-Thorn Related / Re: Mounting a Carradice Camper Longflap on a rear rack.
« Last post by in4 on October 20, 2026, 12:35:18 PM »
We're a broad and welcoming parish Andre, post as your inspiration takes you.  :)
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Non-Thorn Related / Re: Mounting a Carradice Camper Longflap on a rear rack.
« Last post by Andre Jute on October 20, 2026, 10:35:27 AM »
I was musing over Andre's fabulous contribution to the thread I started

I was only going to make a quick hit on Martin's point and then my post just grew like Topsy. I really should have written and edited it in a word processor and just copied it over. Apologies for thinking aloud here on your thread. Bad habits die hard.

When I saw how big it was and how far from the topic it wandered, I put it where it wouldn't interfere with instantly helpful answers in your original thread. Now at:
https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=15782
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Non-Thorn Related / Re: Mounting a Carradice Camper Longflap on a rear rack.
« Last post by in4 on October 20, 2026, 07:44:59 AM »
I don't do Facebook, or any SM for that matter but I was musing over Andre's fabulous contribution to the thread I started ( for which I apologise ) and the thought of 3D printer solutions came to mind. The  following thread appeared in my subsequent search. I apologise for this too!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/637718363917233/?__cft__[0]=AZiAY_qHCMxSDdkdLZuoijCeIW4RKZGC44OGn0TDrEsEQuaa_M7g6Srl32RLeHv7pJ8whopjOvkc7IbvEKj5FsWgdn9TUPxqaxLnhoVMxSzuYBxYkyXU5WR-0QfyZ-hvxXA1dMZbwAHZzfPbeu5UYFUYW2-Vr9A_twL5h7uvgemfCj-YSg46WTBWGsNNlw&__tn__=-UC%2CP-R
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Luggage / The Design of a MODERN MULTIFUNCTION SADDLEBAG SUPPORT
« Last post by Andre Jute on October 20, 2026, 02:26:25 AM »
As so often, I start with the pull from a post by Martin which inspired the thoughts below:

I think the chap that made and sold these Lord uplifts [for saddelbags] probably compensated for any possible material weakness by using thick plate and rods. The uplift and the support that fits to the saddlebag weigh over 400g, nearly as much as the Tubus Fly steel rack.

You're very likely right. Mr Lord had to work with the materials he could get at the time, the processes he could control. But today we have many more choices.

In such small members of a structure the stresses and strains of the load are mainly reacted in the outer fraction of the material, in other words near the circumference of the rods. It is therefore good engineering to use tubes rather than rods, to apply part of the material mass saved to choosing a thicker tube than the replaced rod, and to making triangulated structures or even to spend some of the weight saving in triangular flitch plates. Proper design in tubes rather than rods will save weight without any other sacrifice except to the expected vintage appearance, which in bicycle gear is often an excuse for incompetent engineering or absent skills. For instance small-diameter thin-wall tubes are a pain to weld without destroying them, and a proper high-strength weld requires precision curve grinding or laser cutting under computer control, and brazing requires even greater precision.*

DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION OF
A MODERN MULTIFUNCTION SADDLEBAG SUPPORT
However, if I were to design a modern version of a saddle bag support, it would be cut out of a single flat sheet of quite thin stainless steel for durability and appearance. After cutting out the single shape which will be both the support and the fitting panel to the saddle rail, it will be folded, so that the main support will look like an upside down tray and the fitting part like a smaller tray folded upwards from the main tray.

The main part after cutting and folding will look from above like a flat rectangle or square with an X through the middle. All edges will be turned down, except the attachment section, which will be turned upwards only were it forms part of the main platform. That will be the last bend performed, the other edges of the attachment tray being turned down at the same time as those of the main tray.

The attachment tray too can have some of the inside cut away. The attachment tray will have the shape of the rails of the saddle from where they turn down at the back until they turn forward for attachment.

All of that is one piece of metal.

Now you need one or both the offcuts from beside the fixing tray, which you will cut and fold on all four sides to fit vertically inside the fixing tray and also inside the saddle rails, open side forwards so that you can get inside the folded sides, which are now doubled up as in the fixing tray and the fitting tray or trays.

The fitting tray folderovers and the fixing tray folderovers are drilled together and bolted together around the upright part of the saddle rails; no bolt or (horrors!)   self-tapping screws visible or, worse, in contact with your expensive saddle bag.

All interior corners from cutting away metal for weight saving must be rounded with an appropriate large radius; these are the places where cracks will start if they are sharp.

The centre of the X on the main platform and on the fitting tray can be cut to a decorative pattern if you like, as long as you don't take away too much metal.

Both trays and also the bolted inside fixtures can be strengthened by cutting up the offcuts, bending them into angle and spot welding or bolting sections of the angle inside the trays where the flanges meet.

Finally, at last a slightly difficult brace to make. By now both the bearing tray and the fitting tray are independently stiff enough for purpose everywhere that matters, except where they meet in a right angle. To provide a buttress brace on top would steal loading space. So a buttress brace will have to be supplied on the back. This means that at least one vertical edge of the metal in every brace must be at ninety degrees to the surface being braced.

The last thing to make is the nearest to a precision job in the whole assembly. Start with two large L-shaped pieces of metal with letters fat enough on the long arm to make a substantial angle, and on the short arm a lesser width of angle. The long side of the L must be longer than width of the platform, and the short end must be longer than the height of the fitting plate. The excess length in each case should be enough to bend another angle so that the support L can be fitted to the existing fold-downs of visible plates without any screws or rivet visible on the carrying surface or otherwise touching the saddle bag.

The flat bearing angles must all be bent from the inside of the L.

On the long part of the L, the angle will be bent outwards to make this crucial additional support as wide as possible. On the short part of the L, there won't be space to bend the angle outward, so bend it inwards towards the centre of the bike.

Now comes the difficult bit. Where you want to arrive is each L-shaped arm supporting the carrier plate on top of the angle of the long arm with a close fit but without any fixings at this stage. Simultaneously the inside corner of each L shape must be as tight as possible at the underside corner at the bend of the main plate where it becomes the fitting plate.

We want at both ends of each L to just touch with the four ends,  without pre-stressing, the fold-down we put into the flat load bearing and fitting plates, so that the angle on the short arm of the L lies flush to the fitting plate.

Now trim the arms of the Ls to length, then offer up to the construction and adjust for a tight fit at the fold and along the angle bearing. Do the same for the other side.

Strengthen each L-plate end-to-flange junction with an angle bracket, drill and rivet or bond if you're using bondable metal.

Still no bolt-heads in contact with your saddlebag.

lf built in aluminum or laser-laid in engineering plastic, appropriately thicker sections will be needed.

I'll be happy to provide dimensioned drawings if anyone wants to pay for them.

*A. In probably 1980, we returned from introducing our child to the grandparents in Australia, and settled in a house with extensive garages on Hayling Island, between Chichester and the Isle of Wight, because I wanted to supervise the shortening of a Bentley chassis I was turning into a sports car. Imagine my surprise when I arrived to meet the primarius of hotrod metal work, Geoff Jago, the first thing I saw as I walked in the door of the metal workshop (there was also a GRP workshop in a separate building) was a computer with on the screen a design by me for hanging Ted Knight's exemplary Jaguar XJ independent rear suspension very neatly and nearly invisibly, with below it some kind of a gas cutter under the control of the computer. As soon as I recovered from my amazement at seeing such sophistication at a hot rod welder, I held out my hand, palm up, as Geoff was trying to shake my hand, and said, 'I don't recollect giving you a license for using my design. How many of these adaptor plates and crossbars have you sold? Where are my royalties?' Not a small tube example, but today a small laser cutter that you can control with your phone costs a couple to a few hundred quid (Geoff's pathfinder setup back then cost in the tens of thousands), and you can buy engineering grades of plastic on a reel to have a laser under computer control build you anything you can program.

B. Innovation also helps. When I designed my small-tube bike, which I decided on aesthetic grounds should have lugs rather than visible welding, I chose 1mm wall stainless aircraft tubing, and made lugs and internal and external butts by layering inside and outside with graduated short sections of the same 1mm wall tubing in different diameters brazed into the ends of pre-cut lengths of the main tube, with the last, shortest, outside section fully decorated and the other sections decorated at the showing edge, the whole assembly then to be laser cut in three dimensions to within a tenth of a millimetre, and brazed together with other similarly built up sections. The whole thing would have been remarkably light even in stainless, but my limit is neat soldering joints on large valve-era electronics, with tiny brazing being entirely beyond my eyes or my skills. I spent a couple of years talking to bicycle braziers who promised everything as long as it could be built with tubes off their shelves; they were basically not selling innovation in bicycles unless you wanted a bike in wood or bamboo, which I didn't need them for (a 68ft sailing yacht I designed and built of laminated veneer squares and then thrashed in the toughest oceans around the world is still operating year round in both China Seas over half a century later). Eventually a guy who wanted me to give a series of lectures at an art college to advanced students made some calls for me and I had a choice of art school welding instructors, all but one never having braced anything in their lives (and the one who could braze was a lush), at which point a manufacturing jeweler who had one of my designs in her catalogue suggested that her silver brazier could do the job... It was a question I should have asked first: Who will build it? I gave up the idea of a bike of strictly rational design, proven in Finite Element Analysis, and bought a proven design in production (then) for nearly 70 years, which, ironically, uses non-standard Columbus custom tubes with custom lugs made in the same method I described above.
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