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Actually, I can, Andre...an Art-Deco cross between a full-sus Moulton AM-7 separable spaceframe and a Dursley-Pedersen.

You're so quick, Dan. I had to look up the Moulton AM-7 -- I came into cycling only in 1990 when I gave up the car altogether so it was before my time.

The Dursley-Pedersen is definitely of the same clay as the classic Citroens: exactly enough of sophisticated technology to serve a purpose, and the rest agricultural to last forever. I'm a big fan of the Pedersen, especially in the fat-tired recreation by a now sadly late German businessman.

I'm not so sure of Art Deco though. One didn't see Art Deco in Citroens when it was current as a dominant style, especially in France, say in the Traction Avant on the leather covering the door cards. Citroen never added anything merely decorative to their cars; everything had to serve a purpose, and, surprisingly for a car with so much original design in it, everything can be justified by engineering purpose, rather than as merely tacked-on design. It is, in large part, why the real Citroens have aged so well, why 'timeless' is the adjective most heard about the DS: there's nothing, like Art Deco, to fix it to any period; it is sui generis.

I think a case can be made that runs the other way, that Citroen set a certain tone that fed into art styles and movements. I've given up counting the movies in which a DS was used as a contemporary car in a setting far into the future, a symbol more than merely an artifact. My favorite is one of the Highlander movies where we see Christopher Lambert sitting in a bar looking out at a pall over a city, clearly a future environmental catastrophe, and then he gets up and walks out his car, a Citroen DS. There I burst out laughing -- it's just so hokey -- but not everyone is convinced the director intended self-parody.

You'll know that cycling has become an art form when a mainstream rather than a cult movie has a main character crack a joke about Peugeot bikes in the 1970s.
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Quote
Can you picture the bicycle Citroen would have designed in the full flower of its technical imagination, running for the four decades from the Traction Avant in 1934 through the  2CV, DS and SM to the CX in 1974?

Actually, I can, Andre...an Art-Deco cross between a full-sus Moulton AM-7 separable spaceframe and a Dursley-Pedersen.

Is that about right?

Best, Dan.
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I loved Citroen cars, starting with the Deeeeee-Esssssse, of which I had several timeless DS starting with one I scored from the budget of a film I produced when I was still a student, and when I had the money for it, several SM, which I still consider the most pleasing grand tourer ever made, but it was so unreliable, you needed three to have one to drive while the other two were in the garage, and they each cost more than a Rolls (who licensed their self-leveling rear suspension). All the same, when it ran, the SM was such a cosseting, effortlessly capable car, I several times set ton-up averages overnight from London to Nardo in the boot of Italy without the passengers ever noticing something extraordinary was happening. When we returned from Australia, my wife was pregnant, and the Volvo I'd ordered to keep her and the child safe took months to be delivered, during which time I drove a GS that was on the lot of the used car dealer nearest the station at Cambridge, and I was sorry to give it back to the dealer when the wretchedly crude Volvo was delivered. Not that a Citroen couldn't also be crude: the DS, to the end, ran on an embarrassing tractor engine with pre-war roots, the Maserati engine in the SM was crudely cut down to a V6 from the known-reliable V8 (I had V8 Maserati too, in all three the then-current sizes, all bought secondhand, and you just couldn't kill them), a botch that ruined the car's reputation, and Citroen didn't have the money to develop the rotary GS, of which the one I drove via a day's detour to its final rest in a museum, a thrashed prototype with half a million kilometers on it, was what enthusiasts always expected a small English sports car to be--and were always disappointed, while at Citroen the French got it right more often than not. The whole of any Citroen, starting with the humble 2CV, was always at least twice the compass of its component parts, and oftentimes more, which was just as well because their ever-parlous finances dictated that models had to be kept in production for a very long time.

Can you picture the bicycle Citroen would have designed in the full flower of its technical imagination, running for the four decades from the Traction Avant in 1934 through the  2CV, DS and SM to the CX in 1974?
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Thorn General / Re: Bike identification and valuation
« Last post by MarkG on June 28, 2026, 10:18:31 PM »
Thanks to everyone who replied.

A lot of really great help and advice that's really appreciated.

I'll list the bike here for sale in the coming days.

Mark
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Electric Conversions of "Manual" Bikes / Re: Bafang PAS senso
« Last post by lamonabike on June 28, 2026, 08:59:28 PM »
Thanks all.

How about the PAS sensor. Has anyone got it to work on a Thorn using either the left or right side version?
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Electric Conversions of "Manual" Bikes / Re: Bafang PAS senso
« Last post by Andyb1 on June 28, 2026, 08:40:20 PM »
The axle reacts the electric motor rotation and it is imperative that it can not spin in the fork (or the wiring will twist badly and get wrecked).  ‘Torque brackets’ are available in stainless steel on ebay that go on the axle and bolt to the mudguard stay holes, but are probably only made for a 10mm axle.
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Electric Conversions of "Manual" Bikes / Re: Bafang PAS senso
« Last post by Danneaux on June 28, 2026, 04:55:20 PM »
Rather than modifying the fork, I'd be inclined to try filing flats on two sides of the axle, where it protrudes past the bearing locknuts. If you measured carefully to make sure they were in the same plane side-to-side, I think removal of only the threads (0.5mm each side) would fir the dropouts while still leaving adequate full threading for locknuts.

Best, Dan.
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Electric Conversions of "Manual" Bikes / Re: Bafang PAS senso
« Last post by lamonabike on June 28, 2026, 02:18:44 PM »
Thanks. Could do yes. I’d rather avoid either!

Filing down is something I could live with.
I’m less convinced that the PAS sensor will fit and there doesn’t seem to be a way to check
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Electric Conversions of "Manual" Bikes / Re: Bafang PAS senso
« Last post by Andyb1 on June 28, 2026, 06:45:52 AM »
On my wife’s hybrid I had to file the front fork dropout to 10mm to take the hub motor axle.   Could you find an older / cheaper fork?
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Electric Conversions of "Manual" Bikes / Bafang PAS senso
« Last post by lamonabike on June 27, 2026, 10:31:50 PM »
Hi. Has anyone recently converted their Rohloff-equipped Thorn with a Bafang front motor?
There’s a couple of issues Id like to understand.

The online sales stores (Amazon, etc) offer a left side and right side PAS sensor, neither of which seem very compatible with Thorn’s BB. Has someone fitted either of these successfully?

Also the Thorn dropouts are 9mm. I can’t tell but I imagine the Bafang kit requires 10mm. Has anyone successfully installed this and what was the solution?

Thanks!
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