Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: Arnaud on October 15, 2006, 05:30:17 am
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I've owned a Raven Sport Tour for eight months and done over 3.000km during that period. It is equipped with a San Marco Rolls saddle.I didn't have any problems until recently when I started riding longer distances, typically involving five to six hours in the saddle.My last regular ride of around 20km was quite painful from the first km.
Anyway I'm not going to bore you to death with my sore bum story; I just wanted to find out if any of you had any experience with noseless saddles like the BiSaddle.All the technical stuff on the manufacturers websites makes sense but I'd like some comments from independent parties.
Arnaud from Perth
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My RST was fitted with the San Marco Rolls as well, I lasted about 6 weeks and 500 miles on it, I found it not to my liking at all!! and replaced it with a Specialised BG, following a go on a mates bike equipped with one. Having upped my daily mileage and cycling 4 days a week at the moment, its not bad, but i get sore sit bones after the 40 mile mark. I too have been researching and am going to go for a Brooks B17. The testimonials in favour of this seat really cannot be argued with (can they?) and the longevity of the product is legendary both in terms of production and use.
I would pass on the BiSaddle, unless you can trial one, and go for the Brooks.
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I use a B17 on my Raven Tour. The breaking in issues are well documented and most people get through OK eventually. IMO one of the reasons the are so effective is that they are utterly unforgiving in terms of position. A few mm in height and a degree or so of angle make a big difference on a hard leather platform with no gel cushion. However, now I've got it right I'll not go back to gel.
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I binned the San Marco after 1 ride and fitted a Brooks B17.
It's the best, no question about it in my opinion and zero breaking-in time for me.
Check out the pictures on http://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/fullyloaded, considering the number of different saddles available it's no coincidence that a high proportion of high-mileage riders choose Brooks.
Mine has never sagged into my shape (maybe I'm Brooks shaped) but is comfy anyway.
I have spent 16 hours a day on it on some occasions, I doubt if I could stand San Marco for 2 hours.
Also, because the leather is suspended (like a hard hammock) between nose and tail with nothing else in-between it acts like a suspension seat-post. If I push hard with my hand on the top of the saddle I can see the leather depress by about a centimetre.
Anyway, they've been selling them over 100 years without much in the way of modification. They must be doing something right.
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OK, it looks like my French derriere will be suported by the finest British leather ! But which model ? Apart from the choice of colour there are so many variations of the B17.
My cycling partner has a Raven Tour coming soon so I'll ask SJS to chuck in an extra Brooks saddle.
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Interesting discussion, as I opted for a Brooks 17 but cannot get used to it (after 4 months and approx 800 miles - is that enough?) and get really sore bum bones after about 15 miles.
Should the leather be kept tight (otherwise it squeaks as you go over bumps) or slack?? I am thinking of moving to a gel, but as someone said, many of the long distance people go for Brooks . . .
Lewis
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Another vote for the B17. It took about 2000 miles for mine to break in but even during the break in it wasn't too bad. The shape and colour of the saddle are wildly different from the saddle that came out of the box. I definitely prefer the way the saddle looks and feels now!
On a recent trip to Paris I saw more Brooks saddle in one weekend than I have seen in a lifetime in the UK – maybe it is more suited to the French bottom!
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Thanks stutho. What medication did you use on the saddle?? Proofide as recommended, or something else??? Lewis
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There are so much conflicting information on how to care for a Brooks. I decided to do exactly what Brooks themselves recommend – Proofide.
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Lewisnoble - The angle of a Brooks saddle is critical - far more important than on most saddles. I adjusted mine in 2 degree increments (Thomson seatpost). Give each position a fair trial say 60 miles. You will probably get there in the end, but not all saddle suit all people.
Good Luck!
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Yes, angle is a big part of the issue, and has taken some time to get what I think is right Lewis
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The Brooks B17 Champion Special arrived yesterday.It looks very British and the retro look goes well with the cork grips.Just looking at it gave me a sore bum ! It felt so stiff and looked so uncompromising ;it brought back chilhood memories of medieval torture instruments. I Proofided it as per instructions and this morning we went for our usual 20km round trip (Jenny's Raven Tour arrived yesterday too, but that's for another forum).Well, it didn't hurt a little bit but felt very slippery.I kept sliding forward. The saddle looks perfectly level. I'll try to lift the nose a little but I am concerned about my nether regions being squeezed. It is now a question of putting some serious miles on the clock and see who comes out the winner. I sincerely hope this doesn't turn into a second Waterloo !
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Arnaud. - B17 slippery feeling. Mine was exactly the same it disappears with time.
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Has anyone tried a Comfort Saddle?? No nose at all, looks rather like a shaped park bench, flexes on a suspension system . . .
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quote:
Originally posted by lewisnoble
Interesting discussion, as I opted for a Brooks 17 but cannot get used to it (after 4 months and approx 800 miles - is that enough?) and get really sore bum bones after about 15 miles.
Should the leather be kept tight (otherwise it squeaks as you go over bumps) or slack?? I am thinking of moving to a gel, but as someone said, many of the long distance people go for Brooks . . .
Lewis
Hello,
I have used Brooks B17 for many years with absolute perfection, that is, until my latest saddle. A Brooks Standard B17. After many rides and swapping between bikes to give it maximum use, I am giving up with this one. The reason, painful sit bones after...approx 15 miles. You are not alone. My impresion is that since the Brooks takeover by the Italian company, a batch was made with different leather.
Ah well another saddle to purchase (Brooks) but which model? Another breaking in period to suffer too.
John.
www.pbase.com/john28july
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This topic seems to have gone a bit quiet . . . I have been bunging on the Profide, and I have a feeling it is improving a bit. When I bought the bike, I could not get hold of any Proofide, and it also seemed ludicrously expensive compared with leather creams etc available locally . . . I see that some Brooks saddles have lace holes along the lower 'edge', which look a good idea, as the edges can be tensioned away from the thighs - anyone tried this??
Lewis from Sheffield
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Been very busy lately, sofar I have only done a lousy 350km on the Brooks 17.No pain or numbness at all! It is obviously not broken in yet but I have this feeling that my bum and the saddle start communicating with each other. I'm not kidding, it is getting more pleasant down there. Fellow cyclist who have seen the thing usually comment " no way you get me on one of those, mate!".Next week end is the Great Perth Pike Ride ( probably a couple of thousand participants), so I decided to go all the way: my bike is now fitted with a Brooks D type saddle bag in matching honey colour. Help! I caught the dreaded British virus!
Thanks to you all for your wise advice, I'm convinced B17 and me will make good friends.
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The B17 I fitted has now done 150 miles with me and i did some very slight raise the nose adjustment, over the "flat" initial setting, have yet to buy proofide but will do so this week as its recommended during the break in period. Going off topic, the GPBR looks great - a 53KM circuit of the swan river, must hire a bike next time i am over, but would probably get stuffed with seafood down the front at Freeo and not make it back! good luck, thoughts with you and your B17 on the 26th.
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Arnaud - How closely does the colours of your saddle and bag match? - My 'honey' saddle is now MUCH Darker than it was when new. (Almost mahogany.)
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The saddle is definitely getting darker in colour, but not evenly. The nose, who is not in contact with the body, remains the original honey colour. There are two dark patches on the sides at the rear of the saddle (near the rivets). I suspect this is where sweat comes in contact with the leather, on the edges of the padding of the cycling shorts.It is going to get worse: the last two days we had 41C and even at 7.00am it is already 30C ! I read somewhere that whilst breaking in a new leather saddle you shouldn't use padded shorts so it would take on the shape of your body. Does that make sense ?
The saddle bag doesn't seem to change colour.I am not concerned as long as it doesn't hurt !
Regarding the fine tuning of the saddle position, the seatpost that comes standard with the RST doesn't allow for very fine adjustment of the saddle tilt. Maybe I'm nitpicking, I'm very happy with the bike.
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Arnaud -
quote:
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The saddle is definitely getting darker in colour, but not evenly
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That sounds about right. I was just concerned that your 'matching set wouldn't be matching for long.
Incidentally how do you find the saddle pack? - I might be asking Santa for one.
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I've had a B17 black for nearly a year and done about 3000 miles on it. It has just started to show the first signs of becoming hammock-like but still nothing needs adjusting and I've not boaght the special spanner. It has always been comfortable and is still rock hard. Being a natural product there are a lot of differences between saddles and mine must have been from a hardy beast. I also have accumulated most of the miles on this saddle (~2000) in short bursts of commuting which some have said slows the process as it doesn't 'warm to your shape'. I have also noted that deformation has accelerated since putting it on my TRT from my old hybrid which had a suspension post. All in all a great buy that comes into its own on the last 20 miles of long days on tour that I'd fully recommend.
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The Brooks D type saddle bag is great. I managed to fit in all the tools plus the set of house keys and some money. Under the B17 saddle I keep a spare tube wrapped in the saddle cover, so I'm prepared in case of rain (2006 was one of the driest on record here in Western Australia). The B17 is getting better and better, no complaints there.
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I've managed three years, two longish journeys and a handful of shorter tours on a Rolls. It has never been great but neither is it bad, so I persevered. It works well enough with Gore bib shorts, despite being polished to a high gloss. Yes, it's slippery and never a hint of proofing. But, now it has started squeaking. My hips don't rock. It seems to be contact with my thighs generating the noise. Whatever, it's irritating, so I'm going to look out for one of these B17s you guys are praising so highly. But that question about which model doesn't seem to have had a proper answer yet. Is it worth getting one of the pre-broken in versions, or is pain part of the deal?
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All these stories about pain...I think it is another urban myth.
I never experienced pain on the B17 (standard model), it just became nice and comfortable over time. In February I cycled around Tasmania, 1260km up and down, and the saddle was the last thing on my mind.
I thought they meant "pre aged" as in appearance, not "pre broken in" ?
The RST is a marvellous machine, no hassles whatsoever.
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Another vote for the B17 from me. 300km in a day recently and no problems at all.
The racing boys laugh at mine but who cares?!!
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Here's a quick story. With my advancing age, the 'racer's posture' on the bike hasn't been succesful.
After recovering from some old injuries,
I'm back on 2 wheels, going at a moderate pace for as far as possible.
The wonderful Brooks Pro has been retired, it wasn't cut out for sitting upright.
I've bought a Brooks Champion Flyer, and after messing about for a while, solved the problem.
1. I softened the leather, using a little Proofide & a small amount of Bick liquid conditioner
(an American product, meant for moisturizing and cleaning boots and saddles.
Surely a substitute could be found at a tack shop ).
This made the saddle TOO soft to ride, but overnight ithe saddle resumed its normal tension,
but was much softer. When I rode the saddle,
my weight made the leather ride on the upper rails of the sprung saddle.
2. I put 6 lacing holes on each side, beneath the oval stamp, and added a boot lace.
I laced the skirts loosely, tied it, and tucked the lace up inside the rails.
This prevented the skirts from flaring, and the seating surface from resting on the rails.
3. A short ride proved I was still sitting on the upper rail,
but the saddle did not flare out. Using the Brooks wrench, I tightened the saddle a 1/4 turn,
and tested the seat. Three tries found the right tension and give a splendidly comfortable ride.
4. As the leather stretches, and I'm sure it will, I will use the lace and Brooks wrench to correct the tension
until the saddle stretches too much, and it may or may not ever happen.
But for now, I have a plush ride and can cover miles without the strong shoulders of my younger days.
NOTE: my handlebars are level with the saddle, and the nose of the Brooks is ever so slightly raised.
I think riding position, and anatomy ( leg length, arm length, as well as the naughty bits ) account for the exact attitude of the saddle.
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Proofide is mainly a leather surface treatment and slight water repellent. Most of the oils/greases in the leather are removed during the curing and saddle manufacture process, that's why the leather is stiff/hard. Pressure from the 'sit bones' gradually deforms the shape of the saddle to suit your individual shape, if the leather is too soft the saddle will sag too much and take on a hammock shape (not a particularly good shape for comfort in the long run, plus when the leather is too soft it will tend to stretch and not offer the correct support as well as possibly tearing away from the rivets. Lacing the sides (cheeks) helps to maintain the correct profile as well as stopping any chafing.
Couple of views of my B67 now about 6 years in use.
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h270/Yorkshireman1/Trek%20700/2007_0612Brooks0001.jpg)
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h270/Yorkshireman1/Trek%20700/2007_0419Trek0005.jpg)
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In my opinion,you can't beat a Brooks B17 saddle.
A word of warning though,you must keep the tension by adjusting the nut and bolt.I failed to do this and after several months of creaking and a sagging saddle,the bolt snapped.
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I need to replace the Gel saddle supplied with my RST (split at approx 4,500 miles)
Does anyone have experience of a B17 Tintanium? I read somewhere that tintanium has shock absorbing properties in addition to making the saddle a third lighter? Or is the former the over-active imagination of some marketing bod?
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Hi Fred,
I have a B17 Titanium (honey), It took a while (~1000miles) but it is now very comfy. Not sure if the titanium helps or not. (If I bought another I think I would forgo the Ti)
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Cheers for the feedback Stuart: I will probably go for the B17ti (black), just simply as a last extravagance in terms of upgrading my RST! I won't be doing any serious touring for a while now so plenty of time to break it in!
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I thought the original San Marco Rolls was bloody horrible, removed after first ride.
My B17 Champion (I just had to have those big copper rivets) was comfy from day-one and has got comfier (322km is my max on it so far).
As you can see below, 3500 miles hasn't had much effect on the shape. It HAS given very slightly around sit-bones but hasn't really sagged and I've not had to retension it yet. (I'm 5'11" and 14.5 stone so not a lightweight)
I love the saddle and think it was worth fitting for looks alone.
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u249/freddered/BarleySQRFitting.jpg)
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quote:
Originally posted by Fred A-M
Does anyone have experience of a B17 Tintanium? I read somewhere that tintanium has shock absorbing properties in addition to making the saddle a third lighter? Or is the former the over-active imagination of some marketing bod?
if so - I fell for it. But - my B17 Honey Titanium was comfortable the moment I sat on it. I'm also using the carbon seat post and I find the combination (on my RST) works for me.
ians
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Cheers Ian, I'm definitely going for the B17ti: which Carbon seat post do you have and does anyone else have carbon posts that they can recommend?
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quote:
Originally posted by Fred A-M
: which Carbon seat post do you have ?
Fred,
I went for the one on the RST spec sheet - Mr Control Carbon. No real reason for that model other than it was on the spec sheet. I have a (cheap) Token carbon post on my (steel) road bike. Again seems fine.
ian
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quote:
Originally posted by freddered
It HAS given very slightly around sit-bones but hasn't really sagged and I've not had to retension it yet. (I'm 5'11" and 14.5 stone so not a lightweight)
I love the saddle and think it was worth fitting for looks alone.
Each to his own, of-course.
But it looks hellishly uncomfortable to me. Not on the backside, but on the perenium! And as the sitbones slowly imprint, I guess that it would get worse in that the central ridge would ride up further into places not designed for pressure...
If it wasn't for the newer, more advanced saddle designs with central cut-outs, I think I would have had to sell the bike by now. Or buy a recumbent.
I hope it continues to bring you many years of pleasure!
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quote:
If it wasn't for the newer, more advanced saddle designs with central cut-outs, I think I would have had to sell the bike by now. Or buy a recumbent.
I agree! Perhaps not as strongly as I love my bike :-) but cut-out saddles make a massive difference to not getting certain bits squished: the perineum, as BTP mentions.
I have been a bit concerned about the Brooks saddles before for just this reason: the sit bones create their own little wells which results in pressure on the squidgy bits...
BUT there are lots of happy Brooks users so they must be doing something right.
I prefer a nice hard saddle that the sit bones sit ON, leaving all the sensitive stuff out of the way. I use a Specialized Body Geometry Sport MTB (with a cut-out) and an old WTB saddle that's very hard but incredibly comfortable.
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=26012
I'd like to try a Brooks... if they ever come out with a vegan version!
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I got a B72 one of the sprung saddles, the first day I didn't think much of it but after a few days there was a noticable improvement, now after a month it's excellent. (The wider saddles have softer leather so I suppose they break in quicker)
...
The Thorn Cycling Forums needs a 'Brooks Saddles' section.
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Hi Arnaud,
Recently tried a nose-less ddwings saddle for my stoker(female) on my khs mtb tandem and had a go on it for myself. End result was it went in the cupboard for some one else to try later. The shape didn't work for either of us and there isn't any adjustment for width of bum cheeks to take advantage of shape of saddle.
Didn't seem to be any issue of control just comfort. So trying different saddles for her.
On my Thorn Catalyst, I've choosen to remain with Specialized Alias (size 155 for me) after trying a number of saddles (never a Brooks though). The Alias is best (for me) that I have ever used and cycled/toured for long hours - twelve to fourteen hours at a time. Might be better ones out there and it can be much about bike set up as much as saddle too. Also I do alot of standing, stretching etc while riding.
I'm also curious whether people who get used to a saddle (ie it becomes broken in), such as a Brooks (or even a Body Geometry Specialied), has to do with loosing sensation in the down stairs department as much as saddle fit.
Johnny from 'Gero'
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I'm also curious whether people who get used to a saddle (ie it becomes broken in), such as a Brooks (or even a Body Geometry Specialied), has to do with loosing sensation in the down stairs department as much as saddle fit.
Johnny,
I have ridden various Brooks saddles over the last 50 years and found them very comfortable after breaking in. I have never suffered from loss of sensation in the downstairs department.
By comparison a son of mine thought that saddles had to be painful and cause problems downstairs. Luckily I asked him about it and on replacing his too narrow plastic saddle with a Brooks B17 he now rides in comfort.
Julian
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I have ridden various Brooks saddles over the last 50 years and found them very comfortable after breaking in. I have never suffered from loss of sensation in the downstairs department.
By comparison a son of mine thought that saddles had to be painful and cause problems downstairs. Luckily I asked him about it and on replacing his too narrow plastic saddle with a Brooks B17 he now rides in comfort.
Good to hear Julian. :). How long do you reckon did it take you to break the saddle in? What was your son riding previously?
I've never had the pleasure of trying a Brooks myself, and appreciate many people have found them irreplaceable.
I understand that the B17 is offered with anatomical cut-out, the 'Imperial'. Any thoughts or experiences on this alternative offer?
Cheers, Johnny
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Johnny,
I have been lucky, all my Brooks saddles have broken in over the first 200 - 300 miles of riding. I have applied proofide infrequently and taken care to keep the saddles dry. The breaking in results in the saddle taking a slight dip along its length and sit marks appearing where your pelvic bones press into it. It feels comfortable to sit on rather than just hard and flat. Brooks saddles are also slippy, which I like, but it may take getting used to. You don't stick to a Brooks, and you don't get hot and sweaty like on a plastic saddle.
One saddle, a Conquest, was proofided much more frequently and that one sagged one day on a wet ride, I tried tension & lacing to get it back in shape but gave up and tossed it eventually.
My son rides a Specialised Rockhopper steel framed bike. The saddle it came with was a basic plastic Specialised one which looked 'racy' and appealed to a young man. It measures 145 mm across the widest point, but it provides support for about 120 mm. The B17 replacing it measures more like 170 mm across and most of that provides support. I can see from the sit marks on the B17 that the specialised saddle was supporting my son by taking his weight on the groin between the pelvic support bones. No wonder it was causing pain and discomfort.
Another son rides the same model of bike and is happy with the narrow plastic saddle. We are all different shapes and luckily saddles are also made in a variety of shapes. There is one out there for each of us.
I have never used a saddle with an anatomical cutout, but have read many good posts regarding the ones made in America. It seems like a good idea if you are troubled by a normal saddle in that area. I would recommend trying to get a ride on a B17 equipped bike and, if you like the saddle, buy one or the Imperial with the cutout. Brooks saddles sell well secondhand if you change your mind about it.
Julian
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I've got 4 Brooks B-17's on the go. They felt good out of the box and I don't notice a difference between the oldest [4yrs old] and the one I just bought. I'd give them a 8 out of 10 on the comfort department. I ride them 6-10hrs a day on tour day after day without padded bike shorts and have a smile on my face.
(http://www.mcmwin.com/images/Black%20A.jpg)
I've also got a Selle Anatomica Titanico waterproof leather saddle that I would give a 9.5/10 for comfort. The difference is after riding all day on a Brooks I know I was on a bike, but not uncomfortable...on the SA saddle as soon as you are off the bike you forget you were riding all day.
On a tour last summer I actually thought my bits had gone numb as I was feeling nothing down there. I got off to check and it turns out I was fine it was just that my SA saddle was so comfy I wasn't getting any saddle pressure feedback. Awesome.
http://www.mcmwin.com/saddle%20shop%20new.htm
The SA is twice the price of a Brooks B-17 though and my first one had a stretching issue, but that was from a small batch that had a defect and the manufacturer replaced it sight unseen. The second one seems to be doing just fine.
safe riding,
Vik
www.thelazyrando.com
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Hi,
Took me a while to log in, had to reset everything...
My original B17 on the RST is still going strong (10,000km) and last September I bought a new Fausto Coppi with Campagnolo gear and guess what...again a Brooks 17.
By the way, the RST is going to Ewen Gellie, frame builder in Melbourne ,to be cut up and fitted with S & S couplings as I intend to take it with me to the Pyrenees in September.
The Fausto Coppi is too highly geared for that stuff.
I need your help guys and girls...
Next October I turn 60 and if I manage to succesfully complete the Pyrenees trip I want to reward myself with something substantial, not a Harley Davidson or a Mazda MX5.
Which bike would you recommend ?
Arnaud
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Next October I turn 60 and if I manage to succesfully complete the Pyrenees trip I want to reward myself with something substantial, not a Harley Davidson or a Mazda MX5.
Which bike would you recommend ?
Arnaud
Arnaud - I'd be happy to throw some bike suggestions your way, but you need to narrow the field a tad. What type of bikes would you consider?
- road bike
- mountain bike
- touring bike
- cargo bike
- Fat tire bike
safe riding,
Vik
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Hi Vik,
Fast and light as a good road bike...
Comfortable as a RST...
Uncomplicated as a Rohloff...
Beautiful as a Colnago Master Light...
I suppose a Van Nicholas Amazon Rohloff would come close.
Are they actually made in Holland or do the frames come from Taiwan ?
Can you visit the factory and choose/order on site ?
Today and tomorrow the temperature will again rise to 40c, here in York - Western Australia.
Arnaud
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I used a Brooks B17 on a 600-mile tour of Iceland and for training and commuting before and after, for a total of about 3,000 miles. It was really comfy even on wash-board roads and long days, but I wrecked it later by riding it while the leather was wet (after the bike had been parked in the rain), and stretching the leather with my weight so that the saddle lost support. The B17 can be used in wet weather, but should either have a nice warm bum or a rain cover on it.
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I have tried a comfort/non-nose saddle. I don't like it. The height and the angle had to be perfect. even then, it seemed to throw off the whole geometry of the bike and make riding more difficult. I'm going back to traditional. The prostrate is over rated in any event.
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One thing is choosing the right bicycle to suit your needs, but many people forget, that choosing the right saddle is just as important. My currant bike is a Raleigh Tourist Deluxe with a Brooks leather saddle. – Sure it looks cool, but after some time, I realized that I was ruining all of my jeans.
Apparantly the edge of the Brooks saddle was chewing through my jeans, – and five pairs of designer jeans are quite a bit more expensive than a Brooks leather saddle.
Well anyhow my old Raleigh (which I had for 10 years) really needed to be put on pension, so I started scoping the market for a new bicycle. I was still on the lookout for a city/trekking bike, due to the fact that these bikes are really convenient in the city. I live in Copenhagen, Denmark and picking up the kids from school, going grocery shopping og surviving the harsh treatment of the Danish night life is a tall order if you don't have the right equipment.
I wasn't willing to invest more than 3-400 $ (US), but on the other hand I needed a quality bike that could last at least 5 years. So I checked out some bike stores in CPH and all the bikes that suited my needs cost about 6-700 $.
So I visited Denmarks largest bicycle store: Coop Nettorvet - Cykler (which means bicycles in Danish), which had some super offers:
http://www.nettorvet.dk/kategori/sport-og-fritid/cykler-og-tilbehoer (http://www.nettorvet.dk/kategori/sport-og-fritid/cykler-og-tilbehoer)
I found a city bike, which might not be the most masculin bike in the world, but it had everthing I needed. The bike was priced at 300 $ (a real bargain), and inspite of the low price, it was certified by European standards for quality and safety, which is good when you're planning to pick up the kids. in a situation like that you want something that is secure.
I've had the bike for about a year now, and the real upside is, that I'm not ruining my jeans any more. The saddle is comprised of an elastic silicon material and a soft gel-like substance inside, – and apparantly thats not as though on my jeans as the Brooks saddle. However I must admit the Brooks Saddle looked way cooler, but sometimes you can't have everything, right?
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Apparently the edge of the Brooks saddle was chewing through my jeans,
I have a Brooks Champion Flyer Special saddle on my Thorn. On the Special model, Brooks "skives" the edge of the leather. This puts a taper right about where your legs rub against the saddle. I don't know the purpose of this, but I suspect it would help reduce the stress on whatever pants a person wears riding.
The ride saddle is definitely a top priority in getting a bike to work right!