Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Fred A-M on May 15, 2006, 05:53:44 pm
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I've been browsing the forum for a little while, having parted with just over £1500 for a Sport Tour at the end of March 2006: it seems to me that there a few Sport Tour owners out there who could do with their own thread, seemingly rebuffed in somewhat egocentric from contributing to another thread, so here goes.....
To cut to the chase and to eliminate obsessively pouring over every detail since I've owned an RST, I'm about to embark on Friday forthnight's 800 mile tour of Andalucia and the Sierra Nevada and am extremely excited at the prospect of being able to do this on the RST.
I've probably racked up about 600 miles on it thus far through the Yorkshire Dales, the Chilterns and commuting in London and the conclusions I've come to so far are -
It is an incredibly comfortable and responsive ride - I'd had misgivings about opting for a non-suspension steel frame and was determined to have a hybrid-style touring bike: the Sports Tour was the only bike that seemed to fit the bill. However, having subsequently ridden my aluminium suspension frame, I am truly shocked at the the lack of responsiveness of the alluminuim frame which I've "endured" on tours of Cuba, the Hebrides, the Picos, the Pyrenees and the Massif Central - The RST has truely shifted my expectations. Without having been on a major tour as yet, I can readily conclude that I feel much less tired on the RST and that it is easily as comfortable as a alluminium suspended frame.
The Rohloff gear range is more than adequate - I finally opted for 44 X 16 (SJS kindly forgiving my naivety in replacing the 38 ring that I'd over-cautiously opted for with the Sierra Neveda in mind, not properly having done my gear ratio research!) Gears 1 & 2 were more than adequate to get me up lengthy gradients of 25% in the Dales (fully loaded!), and if anything, I'll probably get a 48T (or larger?) front chain ring as I'll dipping my toe into the world of Audax on returning from Spain.
As for the Rohloff unit itself, it takes a little getting used to the characteristics of the certain gears, especially the "exercise bike feel" of an unworn 7th, but I think I'm slowly being won over by the idea that Rohloff is THE way to go for touring. Having no immediate plans to stalk wildlife in 7th, I'm reassured that it does actually seem to be quietening as I approach the 1000km mark. Given its reputation for being trouble-free and reliable, I'm anticipating coming back from the Sierra Nevada with a glowing report.
The RST certainly feels fast. I'm no speed merchant and for touring purposes, I've no real need to get to pedal above the 25/30 mph mark but just downhill freewheeling, it certainly picks up the pace: I guess I'll be able comment more once I've managed a little more tour cycling in wind-free conditions with a working odometer (anyone else had a less than satisfactory experience with the new VDO digital series, I had to swap mine out for a radio controlled Cateye!?)
Above all however, I feel feel truly privileged to own such a distinctive attractive and stylish bicycle (it turned a few heads in Yorkshire so it will be interesting to see what the Spanish cycling fraternity make of it!) which has already given me considerable riding pleasure. Having bought it "blind" under SJS's persuassive 100 day money-back guarantee, I did initially feel apprehensive about but the wisdom of my decision, there hasn't since been a moment where I have considered taking SJS up on their generous terms and the best is still to come. More when I get back in early June: hopefully there'll be a Sport Tour community evolving because, in my opinion, more people should know about this bike!
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Sounds good Fred, but where's the photos[;)]
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All in good time PH! [8D] Just got the digital fixed (it broke in Cuba!) so hopefully I'll be able to post a couple of pics in suitably resplendent/dramatic locations e.g at the summit of the Mulhacen. For the record though, I'd recommend going for the matt black frame (the finish is superb) and a black finish on the Rohloff!
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I too own a Raven Sport Tour – an excellent choice by the way.
When I bought the frame (I made the bike up myself) I have to admit it was mainly to allow me to uses the Rohloff hub. 2 weeks later I was amazed by the performance of the frame itself – its outstanding. It achieves all my needs as a fast day to day road bike and also as a touring bike.
All the review of the Raven Tour & Raven Sport Tour concentrate on the Rohloff. That’s a shame as it’s the frame that the incredible part.
Incidentally
If your gearing is 16 * 44 your speed range is 4.0 to 21.6 mph (at 70 cadence)
If you up to 16 * 48 you min and max become 4.4 to 23.6 (at 70 cadence)
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Couldn't agree more about the frame and the RST's all-round all-purpose suitability Stutho. You mention reviews of the Thorn Raven Sports Tour but I've not been able to find any dedicated reviews on the web: a number of reviews refer to the Raven Tour with just fleeting mention to the RST. I'd certainly be interested to read any dedicated reviews.
Given that the RST would appear to have the potential to corner a very specific niche in the market (fast & light touring, nothing remotely similar that I could see out there) and as far as I'm aware, its been available for at least 6 months, I'm really surprised at this apparent lack of reviews. Hence the reason that I thought it needed a dedicated forum thread. In view of the abundant enthusiasm and affection that owners seem to have for their RSTs, I'm also surprised a dedicated thread hadn't been started sooner in this forum.
Thanks for the info on the chain ring sizes: speedwise, I was of course refering to pedalling those long wind-assisted gentle downhill descents rather than having any pretensions to being a TDF candidate!
BTW, does anyone have helpful tips on gauging just how tightly to tighten the eccentric chain adjuster bolts? ...having read that you can dent the casing if you tighten them too much, I'd found that one of mine had become loose (fortunately the other hadn't), with potentially disastrous consequences for the frame I understand!
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how tightly to tighten the eccentric chain adjuster bolts?
10 - 17NM
I bough a torque wrench / screwdriver on Ebay for exactly this purpose. All the bolts on my bike have been set to the correct values. Without a Torque wrench I would recommend using a very LARGE Screwdriver (or T Handle) rather than a spanner or wrench as you are likely to produce far too much torque from these.
PS if you do buy a torque Wrench / screwdriver make sure it will cover the range you need for a bike, 4 - 16NM should cover nearly everything. Most don't go this low!
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Cheers Stutho, the loose nut has occured again, this time on the road in the Sierra so I´ve tightened it just that little bit more and it seems to done the trick this time but checking it every half day for the mo in case it occurs again.
The Raven Sports Tour has been a revelation on the poorly maintained mountain roads of the Sierra Morena (amazing location for cycle touring, as close to total escapism into the wilderness as you´ll get in western Europe by my reckoning). The handling remains as awesome as ever, copes will a full (recommonded) load extremely well, and combined with the excellent braking of the Deore LX brakes, feel totally confident haring down those long S-bend descents. Not really taken it off-road yet (partly because I´m unsure what Thorn mean by "light off-roading capability") though given the state of some of the roads out here, I guess I may well have been.
I´m now fully persuaded by the Rohloff too (tho I do still wish it made a little less noise in 7th though), the difference that it its reliable changing makes to long climbs is very noticeable, much easier to maintain a good momentum. More when I get back, heading towards Granada (indirectly) the Sierra Nevada now from Cordoba!
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quote:
Originally posted by Fred A-M
BTW, does anyone have helpful tips on gauging just how tightly to tighten the eccentric chain adjuster bolts? ...having read that you can dent the casing if you tighten them too much, I'd found that one of mine had become loose (fortunately the other hadn't), with potentially disastrous consequences for the frame I understand!
I wouldn't worry about putting dents into the EBB casing, it isn't a problem. It does stop you making superfine adjustment, but these aren't necessary to keep the chain tension within the permitted range. I had a look at an old tandem EBB, it had the indents pre drilled, the owners have done thousands of trouble free miles.
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I agree with PH don't worry too much about it (OK so I bought a Torque wrench - but its not required) Just don’t muscle those bolts with a big wrench.
The EBB is designed to be dented so dent away!!
Good luck with the rest of your tour
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Hello Fred. How are you getting on with the 44x16 gearing? Do you find that the ratios give you what you want when you need a turn of speed, and on the hills too? Is the ride as comfortable as you have experienced on any of your previous bikes? When you ordered the bike, did you opt for the 'Relaxed', 'Sporty' or 'Racing' position? I am wondering whether to go for the 'Raven Sport Tour' or the 'Raven Tour'. I will not be riding with much added weight on the majority of rides. Most of my riding will be on the road. I do want a bike that is robust however, and capable of some light off road work. Any comments would be appreciated greatly. Hope you enjoy the Sierra Nevada.
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Greetings from Granada
I´m not sure what set-up they gave me as I didn´t specify: they just set the bike up to the measurements I supplied. The RST is certainly more comfortable than any previous bikes I´ve owned (see above) Ref the 44 X 16, I guess its v much dependent on the terrain covered. Andalucia declines to do "flat", the most unrelentingly undulating tour (but not the most mountainous, yet!) I´ve ever done and I´ve found the 44 X 16 set up pretty much perfect for that purpose: got me up every climb so far, only occassionally resorting to the granny gear on long steep climbs when feeling exceptionally shagged. Am assuming my legs are now sufficiently conditioned, I expect the ratio to get me comfortably around the Sierra Nevada and Alpajurras prior to attempting Pico Veleta(?)road pass (gravel road leading to summit) at 10,000ft approx, so with 12 kgs packed on the back, I´m wondering about its light off-road suitability too. But it´s certainly handled a great number of rough roads well.
Ref Comfortable, still not entirely sure whether the flat handle bars with extensions was the best choice but one thing I don´t like are the stubbly handle bar grips supplied by SJS; you get sore pressure points on the palms if riding in the same position for any length of time but the right one has now worn due consistently shifting and my right palm experiencing sufficiently less discomfort.
Cycling down a gentle incline you´ll hit 25-30 mph, but whether you define that as a turn of speed or not, you doubtless no better than me but am happy that "limitation" if it is one. Hope this helps!
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Many thanks Fred. That has helped me a great deal. good luck with the rest of the tour.
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Many thanks Fred. That has helped me a great deal. good luck with the rest of the tour.
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Just a few final thoughts on having taken the Sport Tour 600 miles around the unrelenting hills and mountains of Andalucia: simply awesome!
First and foremost, the Rohloff gears are superb for the relentless ripping up and down through the gears that this sort of landscape requires and and also for being able to engage the correct gear just that little bit faster than with standard gears. Combined with the even spacing, I found it noticeably easier to maintain momentum through constant ups and down or for long climbs containing varying gradients.
Just to reiterate previous postings, the handling and comfort of the Sports Tour is excellent, even on the persistently shockingly poor road surfaces that I covered for considerable distances in the Sierra Morena. In these conditions, I found it to be as least comfortable as a fork and seat suspended aluminium frame, lighter and much more responsive in terms of handling. My only ocassional concern was on fast descents into strong headwinds when the bike did feel a bit wobbly, almost too responsive and I had to concentrate pretty hard if I happened to be on a busy road. To what degree this was partly due to having a handle bar bag and no front panniers, I'm unsure. Other comments appreciated.
Whether this Sports Tour is actually a fast bike, I can't as yet provide any scientific testimony because I haven't actually yet ridden any of my habitual training circuits in normal conditions. Certainly, I find that the Rohloff hub allows for quicker and easier acceleration due to the ease of quickly selecting gears and on my initial ride, I also immediately shaved 5 mins off a ride I would have expected to cover in 45 mins. I also feel more at ease going faster downhill due to the excellent handling and freewheeling, it certainly picks up the pace very quickly.
However on tour, I was doing some the longest 50/60 mile days I've ever clocked up but cannot stress enough that I perceive this being due to the total absence of any flat stretches and the general severity of landscape contours. I expect to do a quick 40 mile stint over the Essex Rodings within the next couple of weekends so I'll report back then if I notice any improvement.
Finally - off road, although I think Stutho's given a pretty comprehensive assesment indicating that the Sport will cope with more than "light" off-roading (an off road thrashing by the sounds of it!), I thought I'd chip in with my experience of riding up the highest recognised mountain pass in Western Europe (Pico Veleta, Sierra Nevada) with 12kgs of luggage, my only off-roading of the tour. Again the Sports Tour handled well over the habitually absymal tarmac road and then gravelled/dirt track.
When I reached 9,500 ft though, I took exception to the term "cyclable" used by the authors of an otherwise excellent cycling guide to define the rock-strewn track to the summit. Certain stretches, particularly if you were going uphill with luggage, certainly weren't, consisting solely of stretches of mountain rock debris. Whilst not ever really having done any serious off-roading, I found it hard to envisage even the most serious suitably equipped hardcore off-road enthusiast getting over these.
The rest of the track generally had so many loose rocks that you could only proceed with extreme caution given the steep drops running trackside. Whilst the laden Sports Tour with Sun Rims and Panracer tyres (yes I know!) seem to cope well with an very uneven surface, I soon became fed up of dismounting and mounting for uncyclable sections and also concentrating solely on rock-avoidance rather than absorbing the breathtaking views; so I walked most of the remaining 4 or so miles to the summit of approx 10,300ft, which at that altitude actually felt like harder work than cycling.
The 30 mile winding descent back into Granada was rewarding to say the least, wide open smooth traffic free asphalt for the mostpart. Covered at about 30-35mph, it was pretty much as enjoyable an experience you can get in terms cycling experience and all the better for being on a Raven Sports Tour!
Photos to follow!
(http://www.sjscycles.com/forumgallery/Fred-Sierra-Nevada.jpg)
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Picture added as above!
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Some great adventures here on RST, i have done around 700 mainly commute to Edinburgh and local miles on mine and agree with the previous comments on the bar grips, mine is worn at the changer and i get numbness as well, less on the right! I see these as a consumable on the bike, any one any recommendations?
As a descender its excellent, came down from Ben Lawers (on the road) last weekend and lots of confidence into the bends and in the braking ability, frame very steady without being staid: the latter of course more important when ascending. I am very pleased with what for me was also a blind purchase.
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Couldn't agree with your comments ref RST more Dave. Ref Adventure, forgot to mention that I towards the summit of Pico Veleta I was having to ferry bike and luggage over sizeable stretches of path-blocking snow and infact slipped wheeling the RST over the last and longest stretch of , both myself and RST sliding uncontrollably for a few yards and coming within 6 inches of a 30 metre drop. Assuming i would have fallen uninjured because of the snow at the bottom, I couldn't really figure out how I would have recovered the RST without some form of rescue assistance with no obvious possibilities for regaining the path!
I'm also exceptionally pleased having bought this blind: I do my daily 13 mile London commute on the RST despite having originally designated it as a "special occassion" bike: it feels like nothing else will do now such have my expectations been raised. Might review this if I change jobs though as I'm currently allowed to store the RST in work basement rather than leaving it subject to the whims of London's criminal fraternity but it will be a heartbreaking decision to have to make!
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Thought I might ask you all a few questions.
I have had a steel mountainbike for 10 years with riser bars and 1.5 inch city runners tyres. My brother will inherit the Diamondback Apex, but i`m in a quandry over it`s replacement.
Basically- I use the bike for a bit of fitness, light off- road ( the Peddars Way Roman Road in Norfolk ) and long B Road rides.
I`m down to a Thorn Raven Sport Tour, Thorn Nomad with straight bars or a Cannondale Bad Boy Ultra.
What are your experinces with the Sport Tour with light off road? Is the paint finish as good as the Made in Somerset bikes?
I`m a bit particular and I`ve been told anal about most things- and really- I need to get my choice right 1st time and it has to be perfect.
Oh- I`m 16.5 stones, 6`3" and have size 14 feet.
Any comments are appreciated.
Thanks
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I took delivery of a Sport Tour 6 weeks ago and have done over 550 miles on it, mainly on roads, but with some towpaths thrown in. It's a well designed and put together bike, and in answer to your question about paint jobs, the matt black paint finish on mine is very good, as for how it compares to the Made in Somerset bikes, I didn't look too closely at those, as I wanted a light(ish) bike. An added bonus is I've found the bike pretty quick, I've broken the record times for my 11 mile commute, even though I'm not in the shape I was when I set those times. I found on the towpaths it handled well, but that's as much off road as I've given it.
The only downsides I've found and these are minor compared to all the hassle of derailleurs are:
1. I've worn out a brand new pair of gloves (through all the changing)
2. The right hand grip is nearly worn out, any suggestions on good rohloff friendly grips welcome
3. I've found that the bottom bolt holding the handlebars on needs checking weekly otherwise one day you'll change gear and find that you've rotated your handlebars, and murphy's law being what it is this always happens somewhere you need to brake and can't stop easily
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Ref XRV750's post.
Paintwork - The paintwork is excellent, not so much as a scratch on mine having done about 1500 miles and undertaken several train and 2 plane journeys into the bargain. The finish seems v tough and I love the matt black finish of my frame: v understated but different at the same time.
Speed - I took my RST down to the soon to be demolished Eastway cycle track in London earlier this week, my first non-commute since my Andalucian sortie & I clocked my fastest over-distance average speed to date despite not having done any training for a month. The real beauty of this bike is its handling though: the handling an RST is like having driven a sixties car for ages and then suddenly being introduced to power steering. Extremely responsive.
Off Road - This was my initial anxiety ref the RST but I've since found nothing to suggest that this bike won't handle well off-road. I was very cautious in Andalucia on some very rocky tracks given that I was fully laden and perhaps rather unwisely, had gambled in opting for Panracer 1.5s given the knowledge that I would be doing some off-roading, which turned out to be more severe than anticipated. Assuming that your not intent in doing a lot of fully-laden off-roading or doing rough stuff, I'd say that the RST would meet your needs fine, though can't offer comparisons to the Nomad or the Canondale.
However, with the 100 day guarantee, really don't think you can go wrong and have never read anything but expressions of total satisfaction with the RST.
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One thing that I have not seen mentioned about the Raven Sport Tour, is its overall weight. I know that this will vary slightly depending on the final specification, but does anyone know of the approx total weight. I would be keen to know if it could be given.
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Hi XRV750
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What are your experinces with the Sport Tour with light off road?
Excellent - with light off-road. For heavy off-road you really need front suspension. You might want to read my post Off road with a Raven Sport Tour! (http://"http://www.sjscycles.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=789")
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...paint finish..?
I have got a 'wet' paint fade affect on my RST. It is truly beautiful, however it is not the most durable finish and I have scratched it more than once. I am expecting it to last about 3 years and then to get it respired.
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Oh- I`m 16.5 stones, 6`3" and have size 14 feet.
I would phone the factory about you size before ordering - it may be fine or it may not... It may be better to go with the Raven Tour as it uses more robust tubing and has a greater heel clearance to the panniers. (I am not sure if panniers are important to you.)
Good luck and don’t forget you can try a Raven commitment free for 100 day to see if you like it.
PS Welcome to the list
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Hi owners of the Sport Tour!
I want to get into the Audax world and I'm looking for the perfect bike, but I also want to commute and go light-touring.
Though I have no doubts about its confort in long rides I'm not sure whereas the RST with 26" and Rohloff is as fast as a traditional audax bike with 700cc and Shimano/Campa delairues.
- Have any of you taken part in Audax events? How did the RST perform?
- Are you happy with the drop handlebars and the shifter on the stem?
- What's the weight of your RST?
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I have a Raven Tour rather than the Sport so you’ll have to decide for yourself how much, if any, of my experience is relevent.
I’d normally use my lighter derailleur tourer for Audax. The Raven has done a few, a couple of winter ones on mucky lanes, some where I carried camping gear to the start and one when the other bike had mechanical problems. There are pluses and minuses in having a Rohloff. If you’re riding on your own you can take full advantage of the ease of gear changing, being able to change half way up a hill rather than at the bottom and changing up for a short downhill where you wouldn’t bother changing chainrings. If you’re in a group you miss out on those advantages, it can be frustrating. The other big advantage is how forgiving it is, no fluffed gear changes and getting stuck on the wrong gear on hills and junctions, really appreciated towards the end of a long ride. On the minus side, I sometimes find the 13% gap between gears a bit much, in the most used gears on my derailleur bike the gaps are around 8%. Again this doesn’t really matter if you’re riding on your own, you choose whether to put a bit more effort in and go a bit faster or take the easy option and lose a bit of speed. When I’m in a group I’m often looking for a gear between. I’ve never used drop bars on a Raven, but experience with bar end and downtube shifters on other bikes convinces me that if I don’t have to move my hand to operate the gears I’m more likely to use them.
You can of course Audax on any bike, as gets demonstrated at every ride I’ve been on. There’s also a wide variety of Audax, both in terms of distances and topography. On yesterdays flatish 200 in bright sunshine the ideal bike would have been a thoroughbred road bike. I’m doing one in Wales next month that’s almost entirely on Sustrans tracks, where my Raven will be in its element. I did my first season on a mid range hybrid and neither of my bikes was bought specifically for Audax. Unless you’re one of the lucky few who can afford a shed full of quality bikes, what else you’re going to use it for should maybe have a bigger influence.
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I'd agree with PH ref the gears for solo cycling, reliability of gear changes is one of the things that make any Raven stand out over its derraileur counterparts. I have flat handlebars on my RST so am guessing that the convenient location of the shifter in this instance is also an inducement to greater gear usage. Also agree that whether the RST is suited to you is largely dependent on its intended use and in this instance and I bought mine for similar reasons (commuting, light touring and the intention of doing Audax). Though yet to do the latter, I'm more than happy with my RST experience so far.
Weight specs are noticably absent from SJS's spec sheets but think I've read somewhere that the RST is only a 1kg or so lighter than the Tour, approx 12Kg if my admittedly unreliable memory serves me well. Probably best ring SJS and check.
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Hi Elisenda,
Firstly let me say that I am a big fan of the Raven Sport Tour and also that I have NO experience of Audax.
The Raven Sport Tour is an excellent all rounder. It is a real jack of all trades, I have used it both loaded and unloaded, on road and off road, For my daily commit and for recreation. However it is probable true to say a master of none. IT IS VERY GOOD THOUGH. If Audex is going to be the major role for the bike then maybe you should look elsewhere. The Sport Tour is NOT going to be as quick as a true audax bike. On the positive side it going to be more reliable.
- Are you happy with the drop handlebars and the shifter on the stem?
Yes. It annoyed me at first but having drop bars was important to me.
- What's the weight of your RST?
30.2lbs (561S frame) including mud guards, rack, pedals, lights and a Brooks saddle. Clean weight I would guess to be about 27.5Lbs
PS Don't forget you can try one free for 100 days
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At the moment I'm changing some components from an old road bike and will try an audax event after summer... The RST will have to wait. Anyway, thanks for you replays!
Happy rides!
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I just did 165 miles in a day on the Raven Tour carrying 5 litres of water most of the time (it was 32 deg C) and a change of clothes.
1) The Raven Tour is not a light bike but that's irrelevant carrying 5 litres of water (11 lbs)
2) I use drops with shifter on accessory bar. Not perfect if you are riding fast on the brake hoods but if you are riding on the tops a lot, like I was a lot of the day, it's actually MORE convenient than STI (never thought I'd say that).
3) Most importantly the bike is Smooth, Quiet and NEVER misses a shift. This all adds up on a long ride and actually makes long rides more possible.
I think you'd be surprised at how quick these bikes are on long distance rides when comfort becomes the limiting factor.
In a 25 mile race against my old 700C STI-equipped 531 'Audax' bike the Raven Tour would lose.
Over 165 miles in 32C carrying luggage the Raven Tour would win (I don't think I'd reach the finish line on my 700C 'Audax' bike)
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RST Stem length - Help !!
Am looking to order a new RST but one thing is confusing me. Having looked at a lot of the pictures of peoples bikes they nearly all seem to have a long handlebar stem with lots of spacers. Why is this ? Can't say I like the look of it and I've never had a bike that needed that setup. Is it something to do with the frame geometry ?
Thanks, any advice appreciated as I really want an RST but this is putting me off.
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Belated link below to photos of my first proper tour on the RST as extensively featured in this thread - Andalucia last year. I'm still in the process of updating the descriptions but overall there's sufficient detail and most pics have are linked to a map. Pics of this year's excursion to the Picos to follow.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14081381@N03/sets/72157602137097920/
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very nice pictures Fred - inspired me to get off my backside.
Ian
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Cheers Ian - let me know of any outcomes! I seem to recall that you're a fellow RST owner?
Equally, with the onset of Autumn, I'm trying to inspire myself as I've not ridden outside of my commute since August! Think i'm going to invest in some decent lights and start attempting to some Audax events by way a novel solution to providing myself with some new challenges, inspired by the RaucousAUKs' PBP blog!
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I have been mulling over getting another bike for quite awhile now, I am a supporter of the theory I read on one of the threads that the “number of bikes you need is the number you currently own plus one”. My wife does not read this forum.
Due to a broken leg that has kept me off the streets for the last 3 months I have been spending an unnatural amount of time poring over this forum, and, like many others have deliberated long and hard over what type and which bike to go for. I must say I have found the information on this site to be most helpful.
I use an Ultegra equipped Scott Speedster which is ideal for the generally excellent road and weather conditions here in Oman; I cycle with the Muscat Road group. I also have an aging but still functional Saracen Hybrid. I was going to buy a Catalyst and join the off road group but with the leg and time remaining in country that plan has been kaiboshed.
On our return to the UK in the summer I am planning to do LEJOG and will also need a bike as a winter trainer; to cut to the chase I have decided to go for an RST. I have been impressed by the unequivocal praise that you all give the bike and I fancy something a little different, hence why I have not gone for an Audax Mk3; a Rohloff equipped fast tourer should fit the bill nicely. If in the future I want to do more off road stuff then I will deal with that at the time (see para 1).
I will need to order the bike blind and will not have the luxury of visiting SJS beforehand, the 100 day offer is however very reassuring.
What I am finding a little bewildering is the choice of upgrades, particularly components that I am not familiar with. It appears to be very easy to increase the price of the bike significantly and I suppose the thrust of this post is to find out what you have found to be useful, what is necessary and what sits in the ‘nice to have’ bracket.
Thoughts so far:
• I want drops, that is what I am used to and prefer. The shifter on the stem does not worry me.
• I like the idea of a Brooks saddle, is it worth upgrading to titanium rails?
• Brakes- I am used to LX on my Saracen and they seem ok, is XTR that much better again?
• I will probably go for a SON dynamo front hub.
• Rims – No idea
• Stem – No idea. Help!
• Tyres- I use Shwalbes on my road bike and have been pleased with them, any thoughts against the Panracer?
• Mudguards - Can’t be much different in weight between plastic and carbon, but if the carbon finishes the bike off better then probably worth the money.
I welcome your comments on this and any other nuggets you may have.
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Hi Alstan
Congratulations on taking the plunge, though with the 100 day option, is never too much of a risk.
The most "useful" upgrade I undertook to the RST pre-purchase was the black Rolhoff hub finish which in the long-term will retain its looks: the silver finish degrades signficantly within 2/3 years.
The only other significant upgrade at the time was to upgrade to Deore LX brakes which certainly do their job extremely well.
I've actually just upgraded to a Brooks B17 titanium: hard to say if its worthy of the upgrade above a standard B17 because I've not owned one before, but one thing for sure is that I don't regret it. Despite the breaking in process yet to be undertaken, I already find it as comfortable as the gel saddle, and needless to say, it enhances the look of the bike.
I've also just yesterday installed a Son Dynohub in conjunction with a Supernova E3 front and rear light. Again, it's early days but from the test ride I undertook last night, it's looking to be money well spent: no noticeable resistance from the hub and the lights look well-equipped to cope with total darkness, though have yet to do the acid test on this one.
Rims: I actually stuck with the CR18 for the dynohub, from other feedback on the forum these seem to have a life of around 6,000 to 8,000 miles which did initially strike me as a little short, but having bought an RST instead of the tour, I see little point in going for a more hard wearing rim and compromising on the slender weight advantage of the RST. The CR18s have performed fine and proved to be extremely reliable.
Avoid Shimano replacement brake blocks at all costs: the first replacement set I bought started enthusiastically shredding the rims. Aztecs seem to be much kinder and as effective.
Tyres: I had panracers which performed fine at first, but I later discovered, have very thin side-walls and my rear tyre started to split on only its 2nd tour. I've replaced them with Schwalbe Marathon Racers, which though expensive, have been impressive and have thicker side-walls! I've used schwalbes on nearly on my tours and they've never failed me.
Hope this helps!
Fred
PS, If it's of any reassurance, I also bought blind and never once regretted my decision.
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Hi alstan
I have the RST and am very pleased with it. You're right - it's very easy to get swept up with the upgrades.
To try and answer your questions directly;
1. Brooks B17 titanium.
I had a B17 about 20 years ago. Hated it - like a slab of concrete - swore I'd never have one again. While speccing the RST, my wife offers to buy the B17 Honey with titanium rails as a birthday present. I think - they look good - if I can't get on with it then eBay. (there's a good market in 2nd hand saddles)
Well, it was a great surprise - comfortable the moment I sat on it. A little proofhide and I haven't had to touch it since June.
2. LX brakes seem fine - but mine are Vees on straight bars. Don't know about LX and drop levers.
3. Rims; Mavic xc717. No real reason other than sentiment - my first road bike had mavic rims.
4. Stem is usually a function of size/fit and was specified by SJS. Don't cut the steerer until you're sure.
5. Tyres; interesting one. I chose panracer hi-road (1.5") without much thought. I was staggered just how swift this bike is on the road. I wasn't expecting it to be as quick as it was. Then I had a 3 hour ride on rough stuff and found the handling twitchy and punctured the rear. I began to wonder if I should have chosen the Raven Tour with its more forgiving handling and capacity for wider tyres.
Had a long chat with Andy Blance; he said that he would have spec'd the 1.75" pasela tourguards for me. In the end I went for Schwalbe Marathons (1.5") which are slightly wider than the hi-roads but not as wide as the tourguards. A little slower but cope with my commute and my local riding which is a mix of road and rubble (cycle ways).
6. Carbon Mudguards; can't comment - though if you do want a bit of the black stuff, I can recommend the carbon seat post as a fine match for the B17.
I went down to Bridgewater and tested the Raven Tour (they didn't have an RST in my size). That is a very nice bike and nippy. In the end I went for the Sport Tour because I'm not planning on heavy duty touring. Andy B assured me that the RST will cope with routes like the C2C which have some off road sections and Fred A-M seems to manage the rougher roads in Spain without much difficulty so I am confident I made the right choice.
And I also subscribe to your maxim about the number of bikes you need; if I had gone for the Tour I couldn't have justified the On-one In bred I found recently.
Do talk or mail SJS. They're very helpful but give as much information as you can. There are plenty of people on this forum who've bought blind and have been happy.
Good luck.
Ian
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The only upgrades I choose on my tour were a brooks B17 saddle, Schmidt hub and lights, the rest was standard and has served well. I replaced the front rim with a carbide one when it wore out, I'd recommend it for improved wet weather breaking and staying clean. One of the reasons I didn't go for drops is the poor quality brake levers which I'd used before. My LBS has some new ones in, I didn't pay much attention but they were telling someone how much better they were.
It is easy to get carried away, but I think the standard spec is pretty well thought out and I'd need a specific requirement before changing anything.
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Unless you have a limitless budget on the initial spend, I'd agree with Paul that the bike is pretty well set up with the obvious exception of lights. Nearly 2 years on I've upgraded some components simply because my wishes/needs have evolved a little since the initial purchase; having just installed the Schmidt, Supernova E3s and the B17Ti, it's like owning a new bike all over. Such is my sense of satisfaction, I'm reliving the moment of the original purchase and find myself wandering the flat just so that I can sneek yet another admiring glance behind my girlfriend's back!
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Hi alstan,
Welcome to the forum
1) Drops - Good to hear you are going for drops. I think drop bars suite the RST well adding extra speed and comfort.
2) B17Ti - I find mine excellent - it did take a while to brake it in though - every bottom is different I guess.
3) Brakes - I think the best rim brakes for a Raven are Avid Ultimate$. Unfortunately SJSC don't stock them. I've not used the XTR's but I have heard good things.
4) SON - I wish I had my bike had one, an excellent addition to any bike - next year I may upgrade.
5) Rims - being that you are not intending to go heavy touring I would recommend the Mavic 717 rims. Upgrade to the ceramic version if you are doing high mileage (and the purse)
6) Stem - let SJSC choose it for you, they are very good at getting the right size
7) Tyres - I have recently being using a Panracer Pasela tourguard 1.25" - It is a light and quick tire however it also a bit twitchy, not sure I like it.
8) Mudguards - Personally I would stick with the standard ones and use the money elsewhere.
No. of bikes required = No. of bikes owned + 1. Since owning the RST I have actual reduced my bike count, I just wasn’t riding my other bikes. Having said that I am thinking of getting a Catalyst or Sterling frame some time in the future[;)]
Best of luck – It really is a fantastic bike
Stuart
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Note on the Avid Ultimates. I bought them just to improve cable routing so I wouldn't buy a front one for RST (they have brakes on rear of forks don't they?).
Fitting one to the rear may help routing if it's same as RT though.
Nice brakes as well.
Note. Check out new Tektro brake levers. They are available from some places already and can't be worse than the ****e 287Vs I use.
I will be replacing mine after xmas.
other notes. I have SON Dynamo in Black, It's just sheer quality and seems to stay clean whilst my bike gets caked in mud. One less thing to worry about.
I have swapped from Pananracer Hi-Roads (1.5") which were quite quick to Scwalbe Marathons (1.5") and am very happy with them. They haven't slowed me down at all but look and feel more robust.
I have a Brooks B17 Champion (large Copper Rivets) which was comfy on first day and got even comfier. It also gets as much attention as my bike, looks gorgeous.
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Many thanks for the most informative replies from the forum big guns, and for the welcome – it is good to be onboard with such an enthusiastic and helpful bunch.
From what you have said I have now confirmed some of my earlier thoughts, particularly the drops, dynohub, Brooks saddle (Ti will be a late call) and Schwalbes.
Budget of course is an issue, despite currently living and working abroad I remain a full UK taxpayer[:(]. There may be a slight advantage in my VAT free status but that would likely be wiped out by the delivery charges.
As pointed out, at a starting price of 1500 you would expect a good standard spec in any case.
I am no longer concerned about the stem and I take the point on the mudguards - spend the money elsewhere.
I will go for the anodized finish for the hubs.
Info on the brakes and rims very useful but a little more work to be done there, I will see what SJS have to say.
I will keep you posted on the final ordered spec.
Al
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Black Anodized Hubs are absolutely superb.
If dirt actually manages to stick to them it falls off when you even think of running a hosepipe over them
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Hi Alstan, As others have said the default option is actually a very good bike. I'd second the brooks (mines the standard B17), schwalbe marathons (excellent -no problems in 3300 miles) and I've got the black hubs on my RT as praised by freddered. I also switched to avid ultimates with XTR levers and cables (on flat bars) which are very good indeed, but IMO it is hard to argue the difference from the default shimano set up is proportional to the extra cost. If nothing else you should definitely bin the shimano blocks -they made a real mess of the rims first few time out and were quickly full of metal shards. I'll probably upgrade to a Schmidt hub when my CR18 rims wear out (currently 3500 miles and OK). The CR18s have received some criticism but so far mine have been OK and I've not had to touch a spoke to retrue the wheel. I might look at the carbide rims when I need to change. One thing I've been less than pleased with is the blackburn mtn rack. It's certainly sturdy, lightweight and the solid top would be good when riding without mudguards, but the construction gives very few options for pannier clips, mounting a d-lock or lights, better to go with one of the thorn or tubus offerrings. Enjoy this stage of the process, I loved weighing up the options with SJSC and this forum is a great place to get advice, although everyone's ideal build will be different depending on usage.
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Thanks Geocycle, a number of common themes have emerged which is most helpful. I have emailed SJS and will see what their view is on the brakes and rims. Noted about the Blackburn rack. Once I place the order I can see excitement being replaced by impatience.
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quote:
Originally posted by Fred A-M
The most "useful" upgrade I undertook to the RST pre-purchase was the black Rolhoff hub finish which in the long-term will retain its looks: the silver finish degrades signficantly within 2/3 years.
My 4 year old hub is not quite as shiny as it was when new, that's with year round commuting use, I wouldn't say it was significant. It's a shame it isn't as good a finish as on a Schmidt hub. I have two, both silver, one five years older than the other, but you'd have to look hard to tell which.
I'd choose hub colour to match the rest of the bike and components. Black hubs of that quality may look perfect in ten years time, but if you've matched them with other black components they're likley to look scruffy before then. I've had black bars, stem, cranks, racks, levers, mechs... they've all been scuffed after a couple of years.
Rims - to repeat myself- if I only went for one upgrade it would be carbide rims. They'll improve wet weather braking more than any brake upgrade and if they last as long as claimed they're an economy rather than an upgrade[;)]
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I suppose it's all subjective to how regularly you want to clean the hub: I probably tend to wipe the bike down only every 3 months or so and I've certainly seen at least couple of silver Rohloffs in London very much looking worse for wear in terms of the finish, but presumably as a result of even less effort made in cleaning them!