Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: ians on February 05, 2013, 11:09:36 am
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I have a hankering (no idea why - perhaps it's the weather) for North Road bars (or similar) on my Raven Tour. I'm confused by the choice - there seem to be a lot of bars described as 'North Road' in different sizes. The big issue is sufficient grip length for fitting the Rolhoff shifter. My current setup (with Thorn comfort bars) allows 180mm for the shifter, brake lever and grip. The Nitto North Road bar appears to have only 120mm. I could cut down the grips but 60mm seems a bit extreme. Perhaps I'm reading the spec wrong.
Has anyone tried a Rolhoff shifter with North Road bars?
Any thoughts would be welcome.
ians
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My pal Ellen Moseman appears to use these
At 0.56 in the following clip you see her bike briefly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aosybr6VCOc
Check out her other videos on youtube for better pictures of the bike.
Ever considered the Humpert range?
Matt
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All my bikes wear North Road Bars. The good ones are made by Uno-Kalloy and are not expensive. But there are a number of models. Just counting the ones used on my Kranich in three years: Steel ones I had for a while had longer straight runs so that even on the Rohloff side of the bars I used a full-length grip. But note, in all the examples, not just this one, how far out on the curve I've had to place the brake grip mount; you're just about forced to use long brake grips, four fingers rather than two.
(http://coolmainpress.com/miscimage/brooks_handlebar_grip_on_uno_kalloy_north_road_bar_on_andre_s_utopia.jpg)
Alloy North Road bars I swapped in for a weight saving, though appearing to be exactly the same, had a shorter section and a very slightly wider curve, and so the grip had to be shortened.
(http://coolmainpress.com/miscimage/brooks_handelbar_grip_being_shortened_for_rohloff.jpg)
The North Road bars I use now, which came in the n'lock kit and have a security cable fixed inside, also require the Rohloff-side grip to be shortened. This irritated me at first but now I'm used to it.
(http://coolmainpress.com/miscimage/quill_stem_to_kranich_30_aug_12_800ph.jpg)
A good source of North Road bars is any LBS who participates in the Ride to Work Scheme. I buy mine as takeoffs from proper bikes which ignorant new cyclists want fitted with drop bars so they can look "proper".
On-One Mary bars, widely available on the net, are also North Road bars.
A Nitto Mustache bar, turned upside down, is also a North Road bar, but pretty narrow, I should think.
My bars are around 600mm wide. The bars should be around the width of your shoulders, and if there is a choice around a measurement, unlike drop bars, where you choose the nearest narrower bars, in North Road bars you choose the nearest wider bars.
North Road bars are ridden in a more upright position than straight bars and Thorn "Comfort Bars".
With North Road bars and the right stem, you can do better than drop bars if required. I set my ton-up (truck-assisted) record on a common Dutch vakansiefiets (a more luxuriously equipped commuter, known in The Netherlands as a stadssportief) with North Road bars on a Gazelle Switch stem, which allowed me, without even the use of tools, to rotate the centre of the bars forward and down from the top the drive tube, and then to rotate the bars inside the stem so the grips pointed nearly vertically to the road, bringing my back past flat into an aero shape with downforce.
Very useful, these North Road bars.
Andre Jute
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that is one hell of a bike Andre ,a lot going on up front your self and Dan must have been seperated at birth. ;)
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Andre
Interesting gizmos on the bars.
May I ask what they are?
(I think I spotted the bell!) ;)
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Not sure, but I think the North Road bars on my Shogun are Kalloy bars [edit] actually Nitto. They have a very good grip length, more than enough to fit a Rohloff grip-shift.
(http://smile.webshots.com/images/7ec83470ef5c012ff56e22000abc09fa/jpg/800x600)
Andre, you don't have a GPS there on the bars. You know you really need one :P
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My pal Ellen Moseman appears to use these
At 0.56 in the following clip you see her bike briefly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aosybr6VCOc
Check out her other videos on youtube for better pictures of the bike.
Ever considered the Humpert range?
Matt
just checking out her videos man she sure gets around, wonder how she finds travelling alone being a woman .
hope that doesn't come across as a male thing don't mean it like that .but hey she must have being in some dodgy places.
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Andre
Interesting gizmos on the bars.
May I ask what they are?
(I think I spotted the bell!) ;)
From the left hand side, in the various pice published above,
-- peeking out of the bar is the security cable that plugs into the n'lock stem seen in the centre of the bar
-- Brook leather grips made from saddle offcuts end-on, held together by short bicycle spokes threaded through cast grip ends
-- thumb throttle for electric motor (the big silver bottle is its 8.8Ah battery)
-- lever for Magura hydraulic rim brake
-- bell, as you say,
-- on/off, mode (thumb throttle or pedelec) and cruise speed selector, battery condition gauge, all in one on the little dashboard, also switches the lamps; master power switch is elsewhere
-- the black thing is a leather washbag by Pierre Cardin holding the electronic control box, excess wiring, etc (I'm looking for a dark brown leather bag suitable for a handlebar bag); there's space inside for a camera, wallet, painting and sketching paraphernalia, and A5 sketchbook, lunch and so on
-- across from the n'lock stem, which makes the bike unusable even without using either of its two cables, we find
-- cheap Sigma trip computer, sort I've used for years, cheap, so I leave it on the bike, never lost one to a thief (too cheap to steal, probably), never broke one
-- Sigma PC40 heart rate monitor, not seen in pics above but highly recommended as cheap, accurate, well-specified and long-lasting, operated by my thumb without letting go of the right-side grip
-- other side lever for Magura hydraulic rim brake
-- Rohloff hub gear control
-- Brooks leather grip
-- Zefal Dooback mirror since replaced by the Catseye 300G as the Dooback ws getting a bit expensive because I smashed one or two every month against an abutment on a narrow bridge I always take at speed.
(http://coolmainpress.com/andrewatches/andre_watch_gvmw_skelett_on_kranich_1.jpg)
-- Catseye 300G cheap mirror above replaces expensive, fragile Dooback, needs to be fitted upside down to give hand space on shortened grip
-- the watch is my rose gold Schloss Foehren; no point in having a gold coachlined green bike if you have to tell the time from a plastic of unmentionable antecedents; more at http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/?s=Schloss
One of the advantages of the North Road bars is that they have space for everything you need to fit, though careful planning and measuring is necessary to achieve the best ergonomics. Essentially, there is nothing that I ever need to take my hands off the grips for. I just reach out a finger and elegantly, with no disturbance to my control of the bicycle even at speed on bad roads, touch a switch. New riding companions often ask if my bike is automatic, because they never see or hear me operating a control, and they're amazed at the calm way I carry on a conversation when they're hanging on for grim life just to keep up. It's to do with having proper tyres, a long wheelbase on a well-balanced bike, and a correctly thought-through and executed operating environment with first class ergonomics. (I still can't believe that thoughful cyclists can mount a Rohloff rotary control there they have to take their hand off the grip to operate it.)
Takes a lot of work though. Once the bars are on and all the gear bolted to it in the right place, you don't want to add the smallest thing!
Andre Jute
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just checking out her videos man she sure gets around, wonder how she finds travelling alone being a woman .
hope that doesn't come across as a male thing don't mean it like that .but hey she must have being in some dodgy places.
She is quite funny on her Face Book page as well
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I have a hankering (no idea why - perhaps it's the weather) for North Road bars (or similar) on my Raven Tour.
Annnnd, Ian, don't forget the aesthetics -- North Road 'bars are very pretty by themselves when conventionally mounted, but...
...They also give nearly any bike an early 1900s "Scorcher" look if inverted. Be still my heart, I love that look! See: http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2012/05/upside-down-north-road-bars.html
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks guys - a lot of useful stuff here.
I take your point about the brake levers Andre. I've googled kalloy North Road but can't find any here in the UK. The nearest seems to be a version made by Raleigh - 610mm width, 65 degree sweep back and 175mm for grips etc. Cheap at £12. Similar (almost) is the VO tourist bar - 570mm, 60 degree sweep back and 160mm grip space. £17.50 over here.
You're quite right about the aesthetic consideration Dan. What you've forgotten however is the athletic consideration - I doubt I bend down far enough for an inverted bar, let alone ride any distance - however cool they might look. Although I suppose I could just switch on the motor and burn rubber.
I'll do a bit more research and when I find a suitable pair I'll post a picture.
Thanks again for all the replies.
ian
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You're quite right about the aesthetic consideration Dan. What you've forgotten however is the athletic consideration - I doubt I bend down far enough for an inverted bar, let alone ride any distance - however cool they might look.
Quick photo opportunity when fitting... 8)...then put them right to install and ride thereafter. To be followed by remembrances of one's "Scorcher Days". ;)
Looking forward to seeing your wonderfully setup bike with the new 'bars once they're installed (and still marveling at your "invisible" hub-motor installation, as I am at Andre's).
All the best,
Dan.
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If you can't find the Uno-Kalloy bars, as Matt says, consider the Humpert ones, which are probably made for them by Kalloy! Some at SJS http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars-other-dept862_pg1/#page=2&page=2 (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars-other-dept862_pg1/#page=2&page=2) though the EWG seems to have pretty short grips to allow for those lushly beautiful curves. An almost endless variety on Humpert's netsite. I've had Humpert bars, much like Thorn's comfort bars, and they were super. I have other Humpert components on my bike too; my headset is a Humpert X-Act, made for them by Cane Creek on the famous S6 pattern, indestructible, and the adjustable stem I used before my current n'lock security stem was a Humpert too, ditto indestructible, very beautiful. I like their attitude and their gear.
Andre Jute
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Correction. My North Road bars with the long grip space are Nitto North Road bars, sourced from Harris Cyclery - here (http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/handlebars/index.html) (scroll down, third one listed).
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Upside down North Road bars were de rigueur among my peers on our Raleigh Sports bikes in the nineteen fifties!
Mike
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Upside down North Road bars were de rigueur...
Good on ya, Mike. I'd likely have swooned at the sight. :D
There may be some additional North Road variants for IanS to consider...
Does anyone remember the mid-/late-1970s 'bars fitted to Peugeot Mixtes? They were called "tourist" handlebars and were an abbreviated cross between a true straight handlebar and a North Road. I believe Phillipe made them, and there was at least one Japanese copy, either by Sakae Ringyo/SR or Nitto and perhaps both in two variations. I think I recall some Fuji mixtes sporting the latter.
One type was essentially straight except for a rise from the stem and could be easily inverted or rotated forward without changing the grip angle. See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaspark/4104049234/
The other type was more like a North Road but with very little rearward sweep to the grips. An example, here: http://static.lfgss.com/attachments/40569d1306939511-north-road-1.jpg
I've always regretted not buying a pair 'cos they were just so pretty in my eyes.
A few years ago, I acquired a Nitto Arc 'bar among my Bridgesrtone dealer stuff. An example appears here: http://www.mikesbike.com/images12/BridgestoneXO5001.jpg I plan to install mine on my full-sus recumbent when I finish brazing it. Soma market a near duplicate here: http://store.somafab.com/noahsarcbar.html Very comfortable even for me, a person who prefers drops. I'm running a 7-speed SRAM GripShift on them, and an appreviated handgrip; together the lot provide a nice, full hand grip; a Rohloff should work, I'd think.
I believe at least some of the above would accommodate a Rohloff shifter and reasonable grips, but can't guarantee it.
Best,
Dan.
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Dan, those bars you link to are all variants of riser bars, not North Road bars. North Roads have a much more pronounced sweep to almost 90 degrees (some would argue that even mine are only risers with a deeper sweep).
This is the typical North Road (http://www.ecovelo.info/2008/09/28/north-road-bars/)
(http://www.ecovelo.info/images/north-road-bars.jpg)
Nitto's Albatross bar (http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/hb2.htm) is another example
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lqcapwW1CkU/ShcnL3yaS_I/AAAAAAAADaE/opMjXuGVPlQ/s800/Albatross.jpg)
A comparison between the North Road and the Albatross (http://www.ecovelo.info/2009/11/23/nitto-north-road-v-nitto-albatross/), both from Nitto.
Moustache bars are really a much closer match to the North Road pattern, just that they don't have any rise. And I really hate the idea of fitting moustache bars with drop-bar brake hoods - awkward, ugly and foolish - just a hipster approach to flat-bar cycling :-\
(http://againstthegrind.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/handlebars_must.jpg)
:-\
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Well found, Il Padrone. Lovely photographs, and a fine pictorial answer to something I've long wondered about.
Dan, as you've by now learned, those bars you show are not North Road bars. You may be interested to know that I too have a pair, but modern, sold by Humpert in Germany, and fitted as a default standard to long range tourers (which they assume my Kranich will be in the absence of an instruction from the intending rider) by Utopia; it requires a semi-sporting position on the bike unless you go for a much shorter stem at the same time. I replaced it with new North Road steel bars I already had standing by. Pics in http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf. I imagine the Humpert version probably comes from the same manufacturer as yours. If memory serves, Humpert calls theirs the Tourist and Utopia called it the Sports Bar, presumably because of the cyclist's posture with these bars when fitted on the standard stem.
Andre Jute
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this is all very helpful - and now I know what 'true North' bars should look like.
Came across this thread (what would we do without the internet?) http://www.lfgss.com/thread16416.html
ians
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Here - that is a bike I have - are North Road Bars I suppose http://pelagobicycles.com/stvanger365.html. My ex is with Rohloff.
The bike is manufactured by a small Finnish company.
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this is all very helpful - and now I know what 'true North' bars should look like.
Came across this thread (what would we do without the internet?) http://www.lfgss.com/thread16416.html
1. Looks to me like the one you already knew about, the Raleigh, is the one to have if you want to fit a Rohloff or other rotary gear control with a decent grip length, plus convenient angles for your brakes (i.e. not on the curve and sticking out at a long reach):
(http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/bikes-and-gear/components/handlebars/road/1257251601616-tzs1jzptmbcc-399-75.jpg)
2. Further down the thread are some Nitto and VO boutique-priced bars, the Montmartre and so on. The same bars, by the same or another name, most likely made by Nitto, are available for decent prices from the German firm Humpert http://www.humpert.com/en/bikeparts/marke/produktart/einsatzbereich/produkt/?marke=ergotec&produktart=1&einsatzbereich=1&produkt=22 (http://www.humpert.com/en/bikeparts/marke/produktart/einsatzbereich/produkt/?marke=ergotec&produktart=1&einsatzbereich=1&produkt=22) and some also from SJS at http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars-other-dept862_pg1/#page=2&page=2 (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars-other-dept862_pg1/#page=2&page=2), though SJS appears to prefer the higher markup on the Nitto versions on the previous page (or perhaps their clientele is more snobbish than the down-to-earth people on the forum!). The reason I know that they are the same bars is because a few years ago one of my bikes was offered with a wide choice of handlebars by the current Nitto and VO names, those bars were definitely from Humpert, and they were same bars now sold under another name.
3. There's also the Royal handlebar from Pedersen http://www.pedersen.info/en/Pedersen_en/Models.html (http://www.pedersen.info/en/Pedersen_en/Models.html) :
(http://www.pedersen.info/en/Pedersen_en/Royal_Handlebar_files/shapeimage_1.png)
That one has the stem brazed on and is nickel-plated and is tres pricey, but there's one that fits a normal stem, not plated, same shape, which is only €65. Beautiful if you have a very tall steering tube, or use it upside down, and say casually, "Oh, I bent it up out back in the shed."
Off to perve the Pedersen catalogue again.
Andre Jute
The wicked and the lustful shall be damned... to bicycling!