Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: ZeroBike on January 18, 2013, 09:48:26 pm
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Im on the look out for a tent (I'm new to touring and therefore dont have one)
I was thinking about a Scarp 2 for solo touring.
http://www.tarptent.com/scarp2.html
What are you guys using and what do you think to the scarp?
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Zero!
For the last go-'round on tents you may wish to take a look at this thread:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3942.0
For what I use, go here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3942.msg17485#msg17485
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3942.msg17505#msg17505
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3942.msg17568#msg17568
To sum up: It is an inexpensive and highly serviceable, reasonably lightweight one-person tent with a convenient side-entry and I can just sit up in it. At USD$60 on sale, I bought three so have some spares as they age/die. It is not self-supporting (requires a minimum of three pegs, but panniers-as-deadmen will do instead). It has a bug-mesh inner that must be pitched first and a waterproof fly-cover for foul weather that provides a small but usable vestibule capable of holding all my bags. It is a "cold" tent which addresses condensation by passing a lot of air. Fine for three-season use.
Prior to that (and still, as part of my SOL/casual overnight touring kit), I used a three-layer, hooped Gore-Tex bivy-tent that provided room for me, 1 HB bag, and 1 front pannier, max. It used an end-entry that was tough in muddy conditions, but was very warm, adding +15°F above ambient outdoor temps which could be good or bad, depending. Nice when cold, like being a slice of bread in a toaster for hot weather. Great for my four-season use.
I think the Scarp 2 looks like a nice tent. Lots of room for taking your bags inside if you wish, and room to spend the odd layover day as well (I use my one-person tents only for sleeping and move on regardless of weather). There's pros and cons to any tent, as that first thread referenced above will show. Many people who plan to travel for some time tend to "size-up" by one-person in the ratings (i.e. single people using a 2-person tent) so they have more room on layovers and can easily store all their gear inside and/or change clothes inside more easily.
Hillebergs of several varieties seem to be heavily preferred by many for true expedition touring. They are incredibly sturdy and durable in the worst of weather and most if not all have the advantage of pitching in one go, so the inner compartment stays dry. They are also expensive. Those who have them almost universally feel they are well worth it.
Of course, tarps and hammocks are viable alternatives for many. Don't forget to check the Backpacking Light (BPL) forum for thoughts on tents as well: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/index.html
Hope this helps!
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks Dan.
It will take me a while to read through all of that!
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hilleberg akto
mountain hardware spear 2 gt.
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Hi Zero,
I am in a similar position as you, looking for a tent for cycle touring.
I have looked at various sites, lurked on many forums and pondered the questions of what tent for some time now.
I have come to the following conclusions:
1. Forget weight issues, a few grams here, a kilogram there, sod it.. For a comfortable nights sleep or a stay over for a day or two Im willing to not worry about the weight or size.
2. Ease of set up is important to me, if it can be pitched in minutes thats an important consideration.
3. Higher prices do get better quality tents, but the lower priced tents also have their fan base, for the cost of a high quality tent I can get 3 decent tents.
4. Plenty of opportunities have come along for second hand tents, im considering buying second hand if a good price comes along.
5. Although I always buy online, im considering going to a big store to see a tent and just buy one there having seen it pitched.
Please bear in mind I have no experience of cycle touring so I reserve the right to claim credit for anything that works out well and deny anything that doesnt.....
Ian
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The Hilleberg Nallo 2 seems popular with cycle tourists, but it is quite expensive. Almost the same is the Vango Spirit 200+ that I use. It is very comfortable with a huge vestibule to store panniers and giving welcome living/cooking space in bad weather.
Vango make a newer version than mine now but previous models can still be found on-line and are a bit cheaper. Weight 3.1kg.
http://www.vango.co.uk/trekking/spirit-200+.html (http://www.vango.co.uk/trekking/spirit-200+.html)
There is also the Nitro Lite 200+. More expensive but only 1.8kg and capable of withstanding heavier weather. They are designed in Scotland so should be up to all conditions. So far so good with my Spirit 200+ too in such conditions.
http://www.vango.co.uk/force-ten/nitro-lite-200+.html (http://www.vango.co.uk/force-ten/nitro-lite-200+.html)
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IS this too heavy for tiring?
http://hilleberg.se/product/staika
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if you can see the tent pitch before you buy this is very important, when i was looking to buy my first tent everyone recommended the Akto ,so i went ahead a bought it from the uk supplier, well when i got it i was never so disappointed i hated it from the start simply because it was way way to small for my liking.
if your a very experienced camper (I@M NOT) then the akto is a super tent
so easy to pitch / light/4 season/ ticks all the boxes. but as i said it's to small for my liking.
my other tent mountain hardware suites me much better loads of room very like the nallo gt2 but only in looks.its a pain in the ass to pitch i'm always afraid i'll break one of the poles and its hard to get it tensioned but if your in no hurry to pitch it then i much prefair it to the akto.cons
hard to pitch/heavy/
so Ian's advice is spot on forget about weight if your going to be spending a lot of time in it then get a tent your going to be 100% happy with.btw free standind i reckon is the best but try to see it pitched before you spend all your hard earned money that way no one to blame only yourself.
good luck in the hunt always exciting buying something new. ;)
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Hi All!
Agreed; good suggestions to watch the tent you desire being pitched, or at east see it in person once it is up. If the one you want is not offered in a store near you...YouTube to the rescue! Simply enter the name of the tent you're considering and more likely than not, someone will have video'd the pitching process.
If you can find a store selling tents that interest you, it is well worthwhile to ask if you can also crawl inside the tent, in one of the sleeping bags atop a pad they also offer. Nothing fills a tent like having people and gear inside it, and often sloping sides or ends can lay across the hood and foot of a sleeping bag, wetting it out with condensate by morning. In damp, still-air conditions near bodies of water (the Triple Bad of camp locations), the ends of a bag can get as wet as if one had been out in the rain, as several friends have learned to their dismay. Precisely the reason why some people prefer tarps.
Best,
Dan. (...who thinks selecting the right shelter is an in-tents process, but well worth the trouble before purchase :D)
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A Go-lite Shangrila 3 with one person inner by Ookworks. This tent comes in at just under 2kgs, is a one pole tipi (cone) shape that can be pitched outer first,or works as an outer-only shelter. I also have a full inner for the tent that can easily accomodate 3.
For some reason I am drawn to this style of tent. My other is a Tentipi Varrie, from Lapland, which I can light a fire in or use a small wood burner for winter trips.
:)
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Jags you state everyone recommended the Akto for you, if you go back through the old Tramp forum postings you will see I did not, in fact I had one for sale at the time but would not sell it to you because I thought it too small to be comfortable for you.
I think what you spend on a tent depends on how much you intend to use it. Last year I sold my trusty Hilleberg Nammatj 2GT and replaced it with a Nallo 2GT and didn’t like it. The doorway and sloping ends were not to my liking. The Nammatj and me had shared over 400 nights in the 6 years I owned it and having cost me £435 and sold it for £195 I consider it gave me excellent value.
As I have stated on other threads, if you are only camping for a few nights a year and not cycling fully loaded for more than a few days, then there are many tents to fit the bill. If this were the case for me I would not be concerned about the weight. Only if you intend to do more or cycling in mountainous terrain do you need to think lighter.
I am now engaged in an exercise to replace the Nallo 2GT as it has been sold but one of my future requirements is to be able to sit inside the tent on my Helinox chair. I can do this with my Nammatj 3GT but would like to find something lighter. Before you hit me with your recommendations I have analysed all the tents on the market, it is just a matter of deciding which way to go.
My full camping list is on my website. www.bikepacker.co.uk
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There is only one tent to use it's a ???
Hilleberg Staika!
Yes I have one and only got to use it for a short time! (got ill in Africa)
So easy to but up, can put it up in the rain and still have a dry tent inside (not like MSR tents)
I have it so it's going to be my World Cycle Touring tent ;D
Pete..
;)
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I use a Mountain Equipment Dragonfly 2XT. Its not a lightweight tent but I've never felt enough guilt to wear the hair shirt that is sleeping in a crisp packet! I come from a mountaineering background so already have gear chosen for that pursuit: My stove is a Trangia that continues to give great service; no moving parts y'see. I also have a Jetboil which is great for boiling water but probably not quite so versatile as the Trangia.
Here's a link to my tent.
http://www.ellis-brigham.com/products/dragonfly-2xt/2927
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There is only one tent to use it's a ???
Hilleberg Staika!
Yes I have one and only got to use it for a short time! (got ill in Africa)
So easy to but up, can put it up in the rain and still have a dry tent inside (not like MSR tents)
I have it so it's going to be my World Cycle Touring tent ;D
http://www.hilleberg.com/home/products/staika/staika.php
How long does it take you to put up the Stalka?
Andre Jute
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Exped Vela I
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf/
There are the Extreme and Ultra Light versions.
I love it!
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Exped Vela I
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf/
There are the Extreme and Ultra Light versions.
I love it!
+1
Can be pitched in under 2 minutes - 1:30 if you're quick. Minimum of 2 pegs will see it standing well for a calm night. Great internal length, space and sit-up height, with a vestibule that will swallow all your panniers. Weighs 1.8kgs.
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Exped Vela I
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf/
There are the Extreme and Ultra Light versions.
I love it!
How durable would you say this tent it compared to something like an Akto?
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That Andromeda 2 extreme looks great, serious contender for me.
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf/b43popup5/DBE73CDA88516A05C1257857003BCBAD?Opendocument
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if there tents are as good as the rest of there gear then your on a winner i reckon.
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That Andromeda 2 extreme looks great, serious contender for me.
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf/b43popup5/DBE73CDA88516A05C1257857003BCBAD?Opendocument
wow great looking clever tent what price is it. ;)
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A quick search doesnt reveal any UK sellers, seen a few prices in Dollars around 700-800.
So I am guessing we are looking at over £500.
Its now on my radar....
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A quick search doesnt reveal any UK sellers, seen a few prices in Dollars around 700-800.
So I am guessing we are looking at over £500.
Its now on my radar....
If you follow the links from the exped site, you eventually end up here.
http://www.lyon.co.uk/outdoor/exped-stockists
It doesn't indicate what exped stuff they sell but does give you a list of all UK exped stockists.
So I guess you need to ring around the UK stockists.
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Its now on my radar....
A bit like Tatonka's Narvik and Alaska series, Ian:
http://www.tatonka.com/defaulten.aspx
Narvik: http://www.tatonka.com/Products/Tents/tents/Narvik-2/2550
Alaska: http://www.tatonka.com/Products/Tents/tents/Alaska-3/2569
My Dutch pal loves his Alaska 3, and having spent the better part of five weeks in it, I can see why. It is not so much a tent as a truly mobile home, and a very roomy and nice place to stay over in. I've pitched and put it away myself, no problem.
Pic of his here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3942.0;attach=1112
Description here, pros and cons of using a larger tent: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3942.msg17538#msg17538
Best,
Dan.
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That Andromeda 2 extreme looks great, serious contender for me.
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf/b43popup5/DBE73CDA88516A05C1257857003BCBAD?Opendocument
Looks like an almost direct copy of a Hilleberg Nallo/Nammatj 2GT
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How durable would you say this tent it compared to something like an Akto?
Mine has now done two extended tours of 9 weeks and 5 weeks, camping 90% of the time; a couple of 1week tours; plus a large number of overnight and 2-4 night local tours all in the past two and a half years.
Still going strong, no signs of wear and tear. Overall a very durable tent.
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That Andromeda 2 extreme looks great, serious contender for me.
http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf/b43popup5/DBE73CDA88516A05C1257857003BCBAD?Opendocument
A bit like the Hilleberg Nallo GT. However this will be a good bit heavier than the Vela1. Designed for two people plus extra large vestibule.
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Mine has now done two extended tours of 9 weeks and 5 weeks, camping 90% of the time; a couple of 1week tours; plus a large number of overnight and 2-4 night local tours all in the past two and a half years.
Still going strong, no signs of wear and tear. Overall a very durable tent.
Thanks
Also how does the Vela rate as a 4 season tent? I see some sites describing it as a 4 season tent and others describing it as a 3 season tent.
How does it fair in strong winds?
Can it cope with light snow (probably overkill for bike touring but something to consider).
How do you get on with the unusual door? Is it fiddly to open and close?
Thanks
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A friend of mine has an account with Lyon and may be able to get some prices for you if required. I know Lyon do not stock the whole range of Exped tents as I have made enquiries about them in the past.
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Nice one Alan i like the look of that Andromada can you get any info on that tent. ;)
a lot less money than the nallo gt2 i would imagine.
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Andromeda 2 extreme is 630 euros at this German shop http://www.unterwegs.biz/en/andromedar-ii-extreme-491532.html so about 100 quid cheaper than a Nallo 2gt but also 1kg heavier than the nallo 2gt.
The Andromeda looks to have more room and extra features though.
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Andromeda 2 extreme is 630 euros at this German shop http://www.unterwegs.biz/en/andromedar-ii-extreme-491532.html so about 100 quid cheaper than a Nallo 2gt but also 1kg heavier than the nallo 2gt.
I looked at the weight. Its 5Kg, thats a bit of a beast.
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Last year I cycled in an "unscheduled" snowy tour and woke up with 10 cm snow .
As far as snow is concerned, there is no snow build up as it immediately slides down ( that's my own experience)
With wind, under gusting conditions, it has also behaved very well .
On the door, you can pull it up all the way with the string, or start with the string and continue by hand.
The "unusual door" provides you with a nice dry canopy for cooking .
An additional note to what Padrone says, it packs very neatly : in an Ortlieb Back Roller I fit the Vela, a feather sleeping bag, an Exped synmat 8 matress and an inflatable pillow without problem: still room for more stuff.
Disclaimer: I am totally biased towards the Vela 1.
I have toured with a Tatonka Greenland 2 ( a great tent: extra comfortable, etc.) but went "minimialist" and lighter with the Vela 1.
Thanks
Also how does the Vela rate as a 4 season tent? I see some sites describing it as a 4 season tent and others describing it as a 3 season tent.
How does it fair in strong winds?
Can it cope with light snow (probably overkill for bike touring but something to consider).
How do you get on with the unusual door? Is it fiddly to open and close?
Thanks
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I looked at the weight. Its 5Kg, thats a bit of a beast.
Andromeda 2 Extreme is 3.7kg in the specs on that website I linked to.
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http://www.hilleberg.com/home/products/staika/staika.php
How long does it take you to put up the Stalka?
Andre Jute
Hi Andre'
I had it down to an easy 4 min's, No need to peg it down most of the time.
Cost is high, But very well made.
Pete....
;)
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As I thought Lyon do not currently stock Exped tents as a matter of course. It is a possibility for the future and they can get them to order but there would be a time delay.
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Andromeda 2 Extreme is 3.7kg in the specs on that website I linked to.
I was looking at the at the Andromida 2 Plus, which weighs in at 5Kg. I didnt realise there were other versions. The Andromida 2 Comes in at 4.05 Kg and the Andromida 2 Extreme comes in at 3.8Kg.
These figures are all from http://www.exped.com
I cant put a direct link to the page itself, but its on the "tents at a glance" section.
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Also how does the Vela rate as a 4 season tent? I see some sites describing it as a 4 season tent and others describing it as a 3 season tent.
How does it fair in strong winds?
Can it cope with light snow (probably overkill for bike touring but something to consider).
How do you get on with the unusual door? Is it fiddly to open and close?
I would avoid using it in snow (never used it in any so far). Way too much unsupported fly length for my liking. It is quite good in wind as long as you set it well - and I go contrary to the Exped advice and always put the head end into the wind. The fly is further clear of the inner at that end.
The door is something I really love. I don't find it fiddly at all and it avoids any problems with leaking zip/seams and no zip failures. When it is raised up you still get a good overhang for shelter from rain.
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Hi Andre'
I had it down to an easy 4 min's, No need to peg it down most of the time.
Cost is high, But very well made.
Pete....
;)
Thanks. I watched the video you referred me to and was horrified by the number of discrete parts that can be lost, and the warnings about not breaking the fragile struts.
DISCLAIMER: I know nothing about self-supporting tours. the last time I went camping it was in Africa with servants including a laundryman and a drinks steward, and a proper tent carried on a truck of its own. You can get something of the flavour of it in my encomium to Mbopo Oscilloscopo at http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/541710-the-robust-commonplace-book#comment_34665377 -- search down for his name and start reading. FAIR WARNING: it's not a tale for the politically correct or the squeamish.
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Andre,
You're welcome to join me on my Spring 2013 Big Tour. I can't promise a laundryman, a drinks steward, or a proper tent carried on a truck of its own, but you're welcome to squeeze into one of my spare 1-person tents -- it allows one to sit up at the waist; a luxury in such a small abode. I think I can scare up a proper spare inflatable pad, perhaps the 3/4inch model my 95 year-old father used this last Fall.
Were it not for the impacted tooth that took him, Mbopo would have been welcome to join us and forget his duties for awhile.
All the best, Andre, all the best,
Dan. (...who greatly enjoyed Andre's encomium to Mbopo)
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Andre,
You're welcome to join me on my Spring 2013 Big Tour.
Ah Dan, if only I could. But I fear I would hold you up.
Andre Jute
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No worries, Andre; consider the offer open...
All the best,
Dan. (...who thinks a good time would be had by all, regardless of pace)
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Lots of things to chew on here, Zero, and there's more brands on the market than I knew about, for sure.
My tentative thoughts on the subject...
First choice, I guess, is whether you want a 3- or a 4-season tent; then secondly, if you'll use it only for cycling, or for other activity as well. I don't do winter camping--not keen on -30 + wind--so my 20 - 30 years' experience has been only spring-summer-fall. Also, I use my tents for cycling, hiking, canoeing, motorcycling, and (quelle horreur!) car-camping on occasion. So, I take account of weight & compactness, as well as quality/durability & ease of assembly. I've used Sierra Designs, Black Diamond, Eureka, North Face, and most recently MSR tents; and longtime back, Egyptian cotton, and in Africa, canvas.
Currently, I use an MSR Hubba Hubba. it's a 2-person affair, well-made, light, easy to pitch, not too expensive at $300 Cdn. I've used it with and without the inner (mesh) tent, the inner tent essential for summer camping in Ontario, on account of the bugs. Two vestibules, so there's space for gear. The inner tent is snug for two, very spacious for one.
Drawbacks: I've found that it's prone to condensation in humid/cool weather, although with practice one can set up adequate cross-ventilation by playing with the flaps of the vestibules. Also, unlike some brands, as (I think it was) Pete of NZ mentioned, if you pitch it in the rain, you can't set up the fly first and then assemble the inner tent from within.
However, I get around the rain problem by using a tarp as well -- have an Integral Designs Siltarp, which is crazy-light, and at 2.4 m x 2.9, lots big enough to cover all/most of the tent tent, bike(s) and gear, and have space left over for cooking. I first started using tarps on canoe trips, and I now find them so handy as to be essential: wind shelters, rain shelters, etc. So, when I pitch camp, that's usually what goes up first. (That can either be a bother, or a keep-your-brain-young exercise in angles and tensions.) Of course, it helps to have trees!--but I live in the Ottawa Valley, no no problems there...
Good luck with all this,
John
PS: Here's a couple of examples of tent + tarp, on my recent ride from Amsterdam to Vienna [these look like very weird links to me, but I coped them from Dropbox, so they should work.]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/31qeeiannonb0wd/20%20-%20Tarp%20set%20zum%20Gretchen%2C%20no%20rain%20worries.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nv88o0177k0kitm/134%20-%20just%20%E2%82%AC5%20for%20space%20beside%20a%20river%20in%20the%20late%20afternoon%20sunshine.JPG
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Very nicely arranged camp with the tarp setup to protect both bikes and tent, John. My compliments!
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks, Dan. A bit sloppy with the gear strewn about--stove + tea not visible--but I only realized that after taking the foto... The value of a tarp, of course, is that by rigging it, one ensures that the rain keeps "up". On my Rhine/Danube safari, the only time it rained at night, was when I followed locals' weather advice and didn't rig my tarp. - J.
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Thanks. I watched the video you referred me to and was horrified by the number of discrete parts that can be lost, and the warnings about not breaking the fragile struts.
Vela 1 quick & easy set-up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BViEhVoNMDo)
And some of its special features (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C2X2dmtYTI).
Mine doesn't have the dual toggles to roll up both ends at once, sadly, but newer models do have these.
[edit] Just looking again at the video of the Vela 1 features and I realise how he has snigged up both ends of the tent. Two toggle-ties for one end, the middle one for the other end. Oh my, how silly I've been :-X - now I CAN roll up both ends of the fly.
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What do you all think of the scarp 2?
http://www.tarptent.com/scarp2.html
I take it that noone has one but does anyone have an opinion on t based on anything they have heard?
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like it to be a bit taller ,looks to be a great tent but not for me .The Tee Pee tent seems the best of the bunch only thing i would like the bottom of it to be much closer to the ground.
GREAT TO BE ABLE TO SIT UP INSIDE AND COOK .
http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product583.asp?PageID=126
what do you guys think of this.
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like it to be a bit taller ,looks to be a great tent but not for me .The Tee Pee tent seems the best of the bunch only thing i would like the bottom of it to be much closer to the ground.
GREAT TO BE ABLE TO SIT UP INSIDE AND COOK .
http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product583.asp?PageID=126
what do you guys think of this.
4.5KG!!!!!
How do these Tee Pee (or Wigwam's as they were known when I was child!) fair in high winds, i.e. Scotland or somewhere like that?
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well the indians never had a problem with them. ;D ;D
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I take it that noone has one but does anyone have an opinion on t based on anything they have heard?
<nods> Yes, sorry, Zero. It looks like a nice tent from what I could see in the ad copy, but I have no firsthand experience. If I find some reviews on the 'Net I will send the links your way.GREAT TO BE ABLE TO SIT UP INSIDE AND COOK
Ohhh, jags...you've just described my greatest touring fear: Cooking in the tent. For awhile, I worked ancillary to the medical field and for 3.5 years was a hospital outpatient myself and so was in contact with hospital burn patients...sadly, many got there by cooking in tents. Long before that, I made it a Golden Rule for myself to not cook in the tent...or under an overhanging flysheet while in the tent, so I instead stand around outside in the pouring rain while clad in my rain jacket, rain dripping off my nose while I tend my stove and cook my meals. I then sometimes retire to the tent to eat, but no cooking inside. To make it a hard-and-fast rule, I use a 1-person tent to remove temptation (no room for a stove inside).
I realize this is an individual quirk of mine, but having repeatedly seen the results of what can happen in a moment...well, it put me off, so I still feel duty bound to offer the general caution to use real care if you cook inside. Stoves can flare unexpectedly (even cartridge types that are usually reliable as can be), or a foot can accidentally knock the pot off the stove leaving the flame to rise... and most tents don't have a second door, so one has to escape through the fire. Just a well-meant "be careful if y'do" from me.
All the best,
Dan. (...who seems to have only one phobia, and this is it)
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Hi Zero!
Here are some targeted links to reviews of the Tarptent Scarp 2; the first is targeted toward use while bike touring, and may prove the most helpful to you. There is a YouTube video review in the links as well, and a comparison to the Hilleberg Akto:
http://velophileaustralia.wordpress.com/2012/10/09/user-review-tarptent-scarp-2-lightweight-all-season-tent-for-cycle-touring/
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=21884
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH8FP4z0elk
http://alanrayneroutdoors.blogspot.com/2010/11/scarp-2-first-impressions.html
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4091&start=30
Hope this helps.
Best,
Dan.
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<nods> Yes, sorry, Zero. It looks like a nice tent from what I could see in the add copy, but I have no firsthand experience. If I find some reviews on the 'Net I will send the links your way.Ohhh, jags...you've just described my greatest touring fear: Cooking in the tent. For awhile, I worked ancillary to the medical field and for 3.5 years was a hospital outpatient myself and so was in contact with hospital burn patients...sadly, many got there by cooking in tents. Long before that, I made it a Golden Rule for myself to not cook in the tent...or under an overhanging flysheet while in the tent, so I instead stand around outside in the pouring rain while clad in my rain jacket, rain dripping off my nose while I tend my stove and cook my meals. I then sometimes retire to the tent to eat, but no cooking inside. To make it a hard-and-fast rule, I use a 1-person tent to remove temptation (no room for a stove inside).
I realize this is an individual quirk of mine, but having repeatedly seen the results of what can happen in a moment...well, it put me off, so I still feel duty bound to offer the general caution to use real care if you cook inside. Stoves can flare unexpectedly (even cartridge types that are usually reliable as can be), or a foot can accidentally knock the pot off the stove leaving the flame to rise... and most tents don't have a second door, so one has to escape through the fire. Just a well-meant "be careful if y'do" from me.
All the best,
Dan. (...who seems to have only one phobia, and this is it)
Don't forget the potential for carbon monoxide poisoning from using a stove inside a tent.
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yes dodgy right enough but i would be sitting inside cooker outside i dont like the idea of getting fried inside my tent.
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Hi Zero!
Here are some targeted links to reviews of the Tarptent Scarp 2; the first is targeted toward use while bike touring, and may prove the most helpful to you. There is a YouTube video review in the links as well, and a comparison to the Hilleberg Akto:
http://velophileaustralia.wordpress.com/2012/10/09/user-review-tarptent-scarp-2-lightweight-all-season-tent-for-cycle-touring/
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=21884
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH8FP4z0elk
http://alanrayneroutdoors.blogspot.com/2010/11/scarp-2-first-impressions.html
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4091&start=30
Hope this helps.
Best,
Dan.
i stoppen watching as soon as the guy said you have to seam seal it yourself that would be a big no no for for me. >:(
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you have to seam seal it yourself that would be a big no no for for me.
I seem to take a belt-and-braces approach and seam-seal the outsides of even my taped seams. Absent taped seams, I seal both the inside and outside, and inspect the tent bottom and flysheet at the start of every season, doing touch-up as necessary.
It beats being unexpectedly wet, but -- My! -- it sure is a hassle; agreed!
I do notice the Scarp 2 uses siliconized nylon, with which I have had mixed results. It is extremely light, can be user reapplied/reactivated, and doesn't rot/mildew as quickly or in the same way as urethane coatings. Those can be big pluses. However, I've noticed it does have drawbacks, depending...:
• The inner surface is really slick, so if one camps on a slope, it is possible to awaken on the other side of the tent, having slid there.
• In heavy downpours and wind-driven rain, there can be some "misting" inside.
• The silicone can transfer to sleeping bags, pads/mats, and fingers...the last being of issue if you are a contact-lens wearer; it changes the surface tension at the lens and tears bead up instead of spreading smoothly across the lens -- ouch. This was a problem for me, and has caused me to also avoid siliconized-nylon stuff sacks and compression sacks as well. The MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheets) for similar silicone fabric treatments state it can remain in the outer dermal layers of skin/fingers for as much as 90 days after direct contact and is transferable, so protective gloves are advised for contact-lens wearers. Not a problem for most, but it seemed worth noting if contact lenses are in use. Most people never think about it as a source of lens discomfort. A touring partner found the more he toured, the redder his eyes became and the more uncomfortable his contacts. Once he replaced his tent with one that used urethane-based waterproofing on floor and flysheet -- problem solved.
Contact lenses aside, siliconized fabrics have opened up a whole range of ultralight design possibilities for outdoors gear, and can be an appropriate choice if the drawbacks aren't a problem for your own use.
All the best,
Dan.
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jags. I think this would be a better tent for you. http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product615.asp?PageID=36
Bob at Backpackinglight rates it highly.
I may get one to try but at the moment I have a Shangri La 3 on the way to me and an Oooworks nest http://oookworks.com/index.php being made as I write.
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Cheers bikepacker looks good like to see a video on it though has it an inner attached pitch all in one. ::)
hope the bigger tent works out for you it looks great ,is that the same tent that guy Steve had at watlington also one of the ladys has one jean i think .
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• The inner surface is really slick, so if one camps on a slope, it is possible to awaken on the other side of the tent, having slid there.
I have seen this mentioned in forums about the Scarp people recommend putting some spots of silicone onto the floor so that you wont slide around.
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the Scarp people recommend putting some spots of silicone onto the floor so that you wont slide around.
<nods> Yes, this helps greatly and is a recommended task before much use.
Best,
Dan.
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i stoppen watching as soon as the guy said you have to seam seal it yourself that would be a big no no for for me. >:(
Apparently you can pay extra to have it done in the factory but TBH having to seam seal a tent it wouldn't put me off it.
People say that its common place to have to seal tents yourself if you buy them from small manufacturers, the reason being that they simply dont have the space to put the tents up and have them dry out after they are seam sealed. In order for manufacturers to do that they need significantly bigger premises. So I have been told that its not unusual for small manufacturers to reduce costs by not seam sealing in the factory.
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...its not unusual for small manufacturers to reduce costs by not seam sealing in the factory.
Yes, Zero, and sometimes a sloppy or incomplete job if it is done by the Big manufacturers as well, meaning some of the smaller or less accessible seams are left to the new owner to complete. I've found this is definitely an Outdoor Task, as the fumes are usually pretty strong.
...like to see a video on it...
Very similar if not the same, jags -- Luxe Outdoor - Mini Peak II - First look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjR4XOrZQrk&playnext=1&list=PLM3LT8bMuPsb33Q9IUT35S0-SPG7AtR58&feature=results_video Very nice to be able to work in the dry to erect the inner tent/nest...or simply go lighter and use the flysheet outer alone if not in bug country. That generous side-entry vestibule looks like a joy in use.
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks Dan looks a great tent except for one thing that would bug me. it's open at the bottom way to much cold air getting in i want to be completly sealed from all the elements.
if there was a way to keep the skirt of the tent dead level with the ground it would be runner for me.
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jags,
I think the open bottom is to allow and actually promote ventilation, thus reducing condensation. Such tents are drafty, however, but sometimes ultimately warmer because of less dampness inside.
That said, I surely do notice the difference in warmth of my 1-person Early Winters Pocket Hotel compared to my Coleman Dakota 1. The PH is a three-layer Gore-Tex nexus laminate and completely closed except for the front door (the foot is a free bivy sack; the middle and front have hoops that allow for a little room to lean on one elbow). Condensation has never been a problem for me, but on warm nights I've often felt like the slice of bread in a toaster -- there's no cross-ventilation. When I last used it earlier this Fall, outside air temp was 30°F/-1C, while inside the tent, it was 45°F/7C. In contrast, the Coleman was only 35°F/1.6C with the same outside temp. Much nicer on warm nights, though, and the mesh inner can be pitched alone for use as a Bug Tent on dry nights. Agreed, the flysheet-and-mesh inner Coleman is a cold, cold tent when the frigid winds are a-blowing, but at least it stays dry inside with no dripping condensation.
Tents touch my Inner Child and make me smile, bringing me back to the fun days of a bed sheet draped over a card table in the living room when the weather was too nasty to play outside.
All the best,
Dan. (...who thinks tents might be almost as much fun as bikes to chew over and discuss at length)
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Remember i spent the night in my akto in the mourn mountains northern ireland.
there was a gale force freezing wind coming into my inner tent all night i thought i was gonna die with cold it was getting in from underneath the outer tent .i know the story on keeping tings vented but man give me a break i would have been just as warm under a bloody tree. ;D
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Dan. (...who thinks tents might be almost as much fun as bikes to chew over and discuss at length)
You should get along to the Backpackers AGM at Ulverston UK in April. You will see every conceivable current backpacking and lightweight tent among the hundred or so members gathered there.
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You should get along to the Backpackers AGM at Ulverston UK in April. You will see every conceivable current backpacking and lightweight tent among the hundred or so members gathered there.
I might go to that.
Is it like a campervan show where everyone pitches their tents in a field and then let others go around to have a look?
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Ah i would never make that mores the pity a fella could spend a lotta money in a place like that. ::)
but the Teepee tents make a lot of sense seem easy enough to pitch,/ loads of room /good weight/look fantastic ;) i will wait for bikepackers report on his new tent i know if he likes it, it will most certainly tick all the boxes.all i need to then is sell my 2 tents a but the TP.
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Echoing/confirming Dan's guess that gearheads really like talking about tents, there's a long, full, and generally useful thread on crazyguy, which started with reflections on the MSR Hubba Hubba, and goes just about everywhere: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?o=1&thread_id=163137&page=1&nested=0&v=1A
Cooking in a tent?? No, please don't; don't even think about it... No need to stand/crouch in the rain & wind either -- rig a tarp. An upturned canoe works really well, especially as a windbreak, but has limited cycle-touring applications.
For many of his treks, Colin Fletcher didn't even use a tent--seemed to manage just fine with a heavy-duty sheet of translucent plastic, rigged in various ways. But, he seemed not to take that into buggy country.
J.
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john i'm still relitively new to camping still loads to learn, as for cooking in the tent i know everyone says its a big no no and so far i havent done it .
i've done to short tours with bikepacker he's a very experience cycle tourist and great teacher in all things camping but it taks years to get this down to a fine art.
so i'm just gonna wait until i hear what he thinks about his new tent and anyone that in the market for a new tent would be well advised to wait and see what his review will be. ;)
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For many of his treks, Colin Fletcher didn't even use a tent--seemed to manage just fine with a heavy-duty sheet of translucent plastic, rigged in various ways. But, he seemed not to take that into buggy country.
Oh! another Colin Fletcher reader...! I still have several editions of the Complete Walker. Visqueen was the name of his transluscent plastic tarp material...and unfortunately, the little rubber ball-and-pear-shaped ring gadgets he used to secure it are no more (or have so far eluded my searches). Small wedge-shaped plastic clamps have replaced them, but not in a great way. Tyvek holds promise as a replacement for Visqueen, as does cuben fiber (synthetic, high-tech sailcloth).
The tarp-over-tent is a great idea, John, and looks to offer great versatility. Tent alone, tarp alone, or tarp-over-tent. Nail one end down with pegs and -- yes, indeed! -- a dandy windbreak that would keep the icy winds from going beneath the bottom edges of jags' tent, or the creation of a nice vestibule for *not* cooking. No worries about food spills if eating under the tarp!
I've often thought about rigging an aluminized-mylar "space blanket" as a sunshade during rest breaks while in the treeless, shadeless portions of the desert. With my Ti needle-stakes and the bike propped securely on a Click-Stand (on pavement), it is tempting when afternoon air temps approach 120F/49C without a tree in sight. So far the afternoon winds have stymied me; I don't think the lot would stay upright in the 39-45mph//63-72kph "steadies" I've encountered as there'd be a lot of wind-loading.
I may instead go for an aluminized head umbrella and see if the smaller surface area will still be workable for portable shade when at rest, off the bike. There are models vented for use in substantial winds, and they have chin straps. Very popular, I understand, with Thai and Vietnamese fishermen (most of the ones I've seen are sourced from China and secondarily marketed in Thailand and Vietnam). I've got my little Alite Monarch Butterfly chair ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4331.0 ) to keep me up off the scalding pavement (it hurts, burns, and blisters when the heat-melted tar sticks to one's bare legs without the chair), so all I need is my sunshade. The head umbrellas fold up very nicely and make a compact, lightweight package.
After reading about the canoe-as-windbreak, I headed out to the garage for another look at the 17ft Ouachita hanging from the rafters, wondering if...nah, you're right; limited cycle-touring applications. :D It would surely have some pannier-equivalent cargo capacity, though!
i'm still relitively new to camping still loads to learn
No worries, jags...I think we all find something to change or improve from trip to trip; it's an evergreen learning process, and that's half the fun!
Best,
Dan. (...who doesn't ever want to know it "all"; where's the fun in that?)
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Dan, your idea of using the space-blanket as a temporary sun-shade seems a good one -- with bike + Click-stand and a few pegs, one can rig a good shelter. I have a few of those ball-and-clip devices--got them a few years back at Canadian Tire. The camping-supply firm Coghlans still sells them, I believe--will check in the spring & advise. They're so handy because you can put them anywhere on a tarp.
Jags, Fletcher's books are a terrific source of examples of experience and lateral thinking, and are so well written. His last book (I think), "The Complete Walker IV", was written with Chip Rawlins & published a decade ago. There's been some technological change since then--especially with super-light fabrics--but the basic principles & approaches they follow still seem valid to me. And, I love their sheer enthusiasm for & eloquence about life lived out-of-doors. Somewhat in the same vein are the books on canoeing by Bill Mason, "Song of the Paddle" and "Path of the Paddle". (He was a fine painter as well.)
J.