Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => General Technical => Topic started by: Swislon on October 12, 2012, 10:30:54 am
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I am just reorganising my tools. I have three bikes i regularly ride plus a tandem that doesn't see enough mileage.
How do you all organise your tools in such a situation?
Do you have one tool bag/roll that you move between each bike or keep a set seperately on each bike so its ready to go?
I have tended to have a set of tyre levers, repair kit, spare tube and pump on each bike but move tools from one bike to the next.
I don't take too many tools for a full day ride but still take more than most of my cycling buddies.
What do you do?
Steve
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yeah me too , i have 2 bikes sherpa which has a full tool kit i leave that in the rack bag all the time.
on the raleigh i also have a took kit enough to get me out of any bother ;)
2 spare tubes,
puncture repair,
tire boot,
tire leavers,
money 10euro.
allan keys
spanner
multi tool/spoke key.
i think thats about it not worried about the weight.
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All this fits into a small woman's leather change purse and doesn't weigh too much. From memory:
* Topeak Toolbar multitool, 68gr for all the Allen keys with a swivelhead wrench and two ali tyre levers
* Witte Torx T20 bit, inside Toolbar, for Rohloff gearbox
* 8mm hex bit, not supplied in Toolbar, for tightening crank
* 8x10mm open end flat spanner (wrench for the Americans), out of Draper bicycle tool roll, acceptable substitute can be made by grinding flat brake spanner from motor factors. This allows my Rohloff EXT box to be shifted even if the cables break. Also allows adjusting mudguards upwards for going off road in muddy conditions. (I otherwise run them with less than 10mm clearance. Also 2x 10mm nuts for holding mudguards, lights on front and rear.
* Small, flat 14x15mm open ended spanner for taking off nutted hub gearboxes (I have several Shimano bikes as well as a Rohloff), my nutted electric front wheel, tightening pedals (I run vintage block pedals without the handy modern hex socket on the axle) — this spanner is out of a kit to assemble a nordic air walker exercise machine
* Brooks saddle tension spanner, special
* 1/2inch Imperial socket for Brooks saddle clamp, driven by Toolbar
* Park glueless patch kit
* BBB small ovoid electronic pressure gauge, for pumping up tyres just so at garage
* Presta to Schrader adapter, ditto
* Obsolete florin (large coin) for changing batteries in HRM, bike computer, etc
* Used to carry surgical gloves to keep my hands clean but one of the pedal pals used the last pair and I didn't replace them as I never used them once.
* A sheet or three of kitchen roll to wrap tools in, used to wipe seeping oil or whatever as necessary
* Plastic bag for putting tools, phone etc in if a real downpour should eventuate; normally used for rubbish on the road, replaced on reaching home
* Samsung Galaxy Europa smartphone, actually bought as an emergency bike phone for €50, numbers of local taxi services with a van in the memory
* 20 Euro to get me home
* Minipump (attached on clip to downtube — I have a pump capable of taking compressed air cartridges and its even on my bike currently because it also handles a Woods valve, which I recently had on the bike in a tube that came with the electric wheel, but I've never used a single cartridge...). I've never used this pump on the road, but carry it for pedal pals on less secure tyres.
All this might seem like overkill on a zero maintenance bike. But not too long ago I got my sandal strap caught on the stand leg, crashed over so hard that the stem was loosened from the steering tube, and I was glad I carried my 68gr Toolbar, for I could dismount and then reassemble the bike's steering well enough to get me home and to my torque wrench.
Andre Jute
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For a day ride my tool kit is very simple:
- Topeak Alien multi-tool
- two tyre levers
- screwdriver (Phillips/flat head reversible)
- Thorn EBB adjusting tool
- standard puncture repair kit
- one spare tube
They all sit in a good sized seat bag. That is all for the day, never been caught short. On real tours (multi-days in the bush) I take a much more substantial kit as well.
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Yep; every one of my bikes gets its own dedicated underseat bag. Though some are specific to the needs of the given bike, they all contain some variation on the following:
= Spare tube
= 2 patch kits; glueless and glued (and the glue is checked periodically; all are changed out every 2 years as the materials dry out)
= Multi-tool (my favorite incorporates tire levers and a chain tool as well).
= Tire levers or a VAR lever/jack combo.
= Several coins for a pay phone (cellphones do sometimes die of go out of range and the remaining public phones are in rural areas) and some cash (typically $20) for emergencies.
= 2pr Nitrile gloves to keep my hands clean (I've ruined some fresh handlebar tape and nice jerseys -- only the nice ones! -- through grease/oil transferred from my hands.
For touring, these underseat kits stay in place under the saddles, where they can be easily reached for the most common roadside repairs without having to root through to the bottom of the panniers, where my large tool kits are located to keep weight/center of gravity low for good handling. My larger touring kits carry actual spares for specific application and a more comprehensive selection of tools.
I long ago gave up trying to transfer my underseat bag from bike to bike, due to inconvenience. The more "ready" a bike is to "go", the more apt I am to use it. It was amazing how much hassle it was to lift my preferred ride off the rack, get to the end of the drive, realize I'd forgotten my needfuls and go back to the garage to lift down and sort through three or more bikes, remove the bag, resize it, reattach it, then lift all the bikes back up on the rack just so I could go on a ride that was now badly delayed. Spending the money for a dedicated day ride tool bag for each bike was among my better investments -- even on bikes I don't use so much, like the tandem.
Best,
Dan. (...the Lone Ranger never had to ask Trigger if he was ready...just grab-and-go; also good for bikes)
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Hi Dan, when you say under the seat bag Dan, is it actually hidden under the seat or hanging off the back?
i am thinking off something along your lines of keeping a tool bag per bike but trying to decide how to do it.
Especially as some tools and bits and pieces are slightly different per bike eg spare chain links for the Rohloff are different to the 10 speeds and 9 speed on the Tandem.
I take a separate chain tool plus multi tool. What multi tool do you use that includes chain tool and do you recommend it?
Steve
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Hi Steve!
Here is a story and photos of my largest underseat bag, my Ortlieb Medium saddlebag mounted on my former Sherpa:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3809.0
More pics here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.0
...And on my Nomad, throughout the posts listed here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.0
This is the largest of my underseat bags, it is completely waterproof and the smallest I could get that would hold the items mentioned earlier, including a Schwalbe SV13 presta valve tube. It does also hold a spare (mini) pump, a Crank Brothers model. Where I go, a pump failure could really cause problems. The Crank Brothers model is small, light, and switchable from high volume to high pressure and works great for emergency use. I also carry a Zefal Pressograph manometer (air pressure gauge), a small sample bottle of Purple Extreme chain oil, a small toothbrush with cut-off handle, and the core from one of my sister's old mascara brushes; the latter two are for brushing the desert playa dust off the chain before I re-lube it (the lot carried in a small zip-top sack, as is the spare tube, so it will stay fresh. A photograph of the bag and contents appears below.
Nearly all my other underseat bags are a fraction of this size (one-half to one-third, in one case one-quarter, by volume), since they only need to carry a spare road-bike tube, a couple patch kits, and the tire lever/jack and some coins. Photo below. I generally don't take the multi-tool for those bikes, since I have a small holder that fits beneath one one of my bottle cages that holds two double-ended allen wrenches, which takes care of nearly anything that might loosen on the road.
Sadly, my favorite multi-tool is no longer made; I would have recommended it without hesitation for the USD$15 I paid on sale. It was marketed about 15 years ago under the PerformanceBike SpinDoctor label here in the States, but there are similar ones available on the market today. I've attached a photo of it below so you can see what it includes. It weighs 260g/9.2oz, but I like it because it is sturdy and has the following features:
= Frame-mountable case
= Two glass-filled nylon tire levers that won't break or mar alu rims.
= Chrome-vanadium tools for 2.5,3,4,5,6mm allen wrenches, Phillips #2 screwdriver.
= Locking(!) stainless tools for 8,9,10mm 12-point hex wrenches, 14g and 15g spoke wrenches, 5mm slotted screwdriver, bottle opener, serrated knife/spatula, 15mm pedal wrench (used with 6mm hex wrench on back side of pedal to share force).
= Stainless (non-locking) tools for 2mm, 8mm allen, chain-rivet tool.
Chain-connector links for each bike's chain live in the patch kit box. The usual USD$20 bill is very tear-resistant thanks to high linen content and it makes a dandy tire boot in the event of sidewall damage.
I decided I preferred an underseat bag hidden under the saddle so my rear rack would be free to carry my rack-top pack or a touring load (typically my sleeping bag, pad, silk liner and air pillow in a dry sack and also my tent in its own sack). As mentioned, the underseat bag keeps the most-needed repair kit handy so I don't have to dig for it; this makes flat repairs much quicker and easier, as the bags all stay on the bike even when touring with a full load.
Hope this helps.
Best,
Dan. (Everything I need, nothin' I don't, and every bit of it handy when needed...)
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Thanks Dan! Amazingly thorough as always. Great looking multi tool pity they are not available anymore.
Steve
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Very little different to the Topeak Alien (my all-purpose multi-tool) which is still available, now ina new format (http://www.evanscycles.com/products/topeak/alien-iii-tool-ec018742).
(http://www.evanscycles.com/product_image/image/57d/f3b/78c/37682/large/topeak-alien-iii-tool.jpg)
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Some versions of the tool Dan likes.
Here's the ur-tool the others copied, from my unused bicycle tools trunk, never used because I find these everything-but-the-kitchen-sink multitools clumsy:
(http://www.coolmainpress.com/bikebits2012/ur-daddy_multitool.jpg) (http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html)
It has all the tools required by my Shimanohub gearbox bikes I preferred the 68gr Toolbar.
(http://www.coolmainpress.com/bikebits2012/ur-daddy_multitool_lock_release.jpg) (http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html)
The spring loaded lock release is the rectangular bright metal plate.
Park Tool's MTB 7 version is currently available from my go-to bike bits pusher for a nice price: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=5096
(http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Images/Models/Original/5096-1.jpg) (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Images/Models/Original/5096.jpg)
Andre Jute
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Of course, a proper bike comes with a proper toolkit, just like Raleighs of blessed memory, before Raleigh sold out to accountants. Here's the multitool that came in the very comprehensive "Welcome to the Utopia Family" pack accompanying my Kranich. (Also in it, bungee cord for the rack, first class Topeak minipump and mounting kit, rubbing strips to clean hub gearbox and dynamo, frame wash and wax materials, small spares, Rohloff and other handbooks in book folio, etc.)
(http://www.coolmainpress.com/bikebits2012/utopia-velo_multitool1.jpg) (http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html)
Notice that this tool offers two ways of changing Rohloff gears if the cables break (all the Rohloff Utopia use the EXT click box): there's an 8mm socket and also an 8mm box wrench.
(http://www.coolmainpress.com/bikebits2012/utopia-velo_multitool2.jpg) (http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html)
But nobody has 9mm nuts on his bike, so you can dispose of the 9mm socket and its place put a hex drive hex bit adapter and two extra bits: 8mm hex and T20 torx for the crank and the Rohloff screws respectively and drive them with the 6mm hex wrench which has a spring loaded ball retainer.
Andre Jute
Toolfondler
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Pete, Andre; you've got it; philosophically and essentially the same tools as my old favorite! Good to know they're still available; thanks!
I'm so glad Steve originated this topic, as it touches a core issue that *all* of us face, whether occasional recreational rider or world tourist:
"What should I carry to cover most contingencies I might face on a day ride?"
The world tourist will be carrying a number of spares in his or her bags, to cover everything from a temporary bodge to a repair likely to last days, weeks or months, or even a "proper" repair. But think of the conditions -- they might range from sunny, warm, and benign to sleeting, windy, and dark. The goal then becomes much the same as the day-rider's: What do I need to move on, either to home or to the night's camp, where I can work on this problem at my leisure?
And that's where the quick-access, underseat tool bag comes in for me. It is something I can grab by the side of the road, leaving everything else intact "for later" and "at leisure". Even more, it is familiar to me 'cos it is also my day-ride tool kit. The same philosophy applies to my favored little multi-tool. Is it a substitute for shop tools? No, but it will get me by, and won't round the corners of nuts or strip the centers out of allen bolts. It will split and rejoin a chain, and the tire levers don't fold under pressure. It is a serviceable substitute for getting me back on the bike in the minimum possible time. Big Stuff gets fixed properly or more permanently in camp or back at home.
To return to Steve's original question...Do you have one tool bag/roll that you move between each bike or keep a set seperately on each bike so its ready to go?
Having a day-ride tool kit on each bike means it can be tailored for each bike (tube size, chain connecting link of the proper size, etc) and it is conveniently already in place so transfer won't delay a ride and it cannot be forgotten. The Nomad is my Expedition bike; the other bikes might go for 400km day rides, but are always in a good state of tune (key point) and have sealed bearings throughout, so there is very little tire levers/jack, patches, a spare tube and 4 allen keys can't repair. I can always toss in a chain connector and chain tool or transfer my multi-tool if it is a big day-ride to more remote areas, but I've never-ever ("Noooooooooo, Dan! Don't say it; you'll tempt fate!") broken a chain to date.
All the best,
Dan. (...who dearly loves such topics!)
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Personaly I am not a fan of the multitools as I find that 99% of the time it is an allen key I require and using a multitool both makes acees to some areas (mudguard fixing bolts etc) both difficult and likely to cause damage to the paintwork.
Along with basic puncture repair tools I just carry a set of allen keys like such:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/One23-Bike-Bicycle-Coloured-Hex-Ball-End-Allen-Keys-Set-/160873860831?pt=UK_Spots_Leisure_Cycling_Tools_RepairKits&hash=item2574d44edf
An opposing view to the above on one kit per bike is that I am planning on moving to using a Carradice Super C Audax saddle bag which I can move from one bike to the next.
The reasoning behind this is that it allows me to have one set of not only tools but all the other basic things it is nice to have on a ride (waterproof jacket, phone, straps, basic first aid etc) all ready to go and I know whichever bike I take, I am not hindered by not being ready.
I will let you know how this experiment goes as it progresses.
My Thorn is the first bike I have carried more than a phone on in 20 years. (that includes a pump and patches). Historicaly every ride I did was about speed so having to stop, even for a flat was a failed ride so time to go home.
So far I have done about 5000 km on the Nomad and here is what I have had to fix on the road:
Tighten front mudguard that has vibrated loose twice - need to get some locktight. It would have got me home but was just annoying
Tiighten stem allen bolts after hitting really bad pothole at about 50kmh at night. - a Cateye EL135 is not relly designed for night riding in the countryside.
Not exactly an unreliable bike then.
I have decided I am getting older and wiser. (keep reapeating it and it will come true lol)
Cheers
Andy
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Hi all,
my tool kit is much like Jags'. As I see it a day ride should be within the forseeable service life of all the components on the bike and loctite is wonderful stuff. If it isn't I have only myself to blame....
It gets complicated when I consider the geographic and climatic elements though and the penalty for component failure. As Clint said "Are you feeling lucky punk?". After that it's personal attitude to risk and risk perception which are very individual things.
Up on the Pennines at night in a storm there is NO shelter and even simple repairs would be difficult with any toolkit: This is why I like SPD shoes I can walk in just in case I need cache the bike and bail out. I first had to think about this when undertaking Norwegian winter motorcycling. Any repair scenario there began with the cold factor and the inability to touch anything metallic with bare hands.
This brings us to initial bike specification and how much safety margin is built in to components in the first place. If you are a weight weenie and risk averse look away now as you have a dilema, unless of course you have someone on stand by at home with a car and mobile phone reception....
So yes I think a toolkit for each bike is good but...
And, if you have a bike shop serviced can you actually use the tools?
Happy pondering
Ian
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When it comes to tools for extended tours and remote areas I take the aforementioned seat-bag tool kit, containing:
4” shifting spanner
2 tyre levers
Topeak Alien multi-tool
screw driver (dual head)
spare tube
EBB tool
puncture repair kit
plus the following:
Tools
pliers
8" shifting spanner
15mm pedal spanner
8mm spanner
chain tool
BB remover
10mm allen key
Multi-head driver with hex, torx and driver heads
spoke key
Rohloff sprocket/cassette remover (dependent on bike used)
cleaning brush
tyre boot
Spares*
gear & brake cables
brake pads
adhesive tape
zip ties (asstd. sizes)
baling wire
hose clamp
steel rod (5 x 110mm)
assorted nuts & bolts
2nd spare tube
grease tub
chain lube
Apart from the spare tube and bottle of chain lube, all of this fits in a pack that measures about 5 x 15 x 22 cm. and sits neatly in the bottom of my front Ortlieb pannier. I may need to reassess a few of the tools in the full kit since I bought the multi-head driver.
* No spare spokes listed. I need to get some (or maybe a Fiberfix kevlar spoke) but I'm not in any rush as I have not broken any spokes on my touring bikes in the last 19 years, and the Rohloff/Schmidt combination with symmetrical wheel spoking is even stronger.
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you need tools on a spin ,most if not all roadies carry the bare minimum tire leavers 1 tube and thats it,have you ever noticed if your in a group when someone gets into trouble they always look around for the guy that carries the tool kit ME ??? i lost count the amount of times i gave people a spare tube never to be returned :'( fixed punctures (ANY ONE GOT A TIRE LEAVER)
yeah can't understand why people dont put a neat wee tool together.
swiss army knife is a handy tool to have .allan keys dont leave without them,good multi tool can be good.you need a chain breaker essential piece of kit and if you have a rear mech which are as rare as hens teeth on this forum ;D ;D well you need a allan key for jocky wheels tiny.
ok i'm rambling on here but it's sunday morning and it's lashing rain so what else can i do ;)
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This has generated a lot of interest. The reason I asked the question is because my RST is off the road having a new rear wheel built at Woodrups. This means I am using my other bikes and transferring my Barley bag between them. Although not a big job it is still a little irksome to do if I want to change bike. I think I said somewhere else that my "go to" bike is the RST so it had the Barley with tool kit in situ. I have other under small under seat bags but now it is colder I like to have the Barley with me so I can strip off layers as I warm up. I don't use a SQR as I don't care for its looks but I guess I could as a solution for moving the barley from bike to bike. However I then have to think what's in the tool kit as the bikes have different needs
I think I will invest in another Barley for my Bob Jackson audax and build another tool kit and leave on this bike. This can then be moved to the other bike which is also 30 speed dérailleur and 700. C wheels. Where as as we all know the RST is 26inch and Rohloff. That covers the bases for day rides I think.
I do not do multi day tours yet so don't need the extended tour tool kit. I just need tools to keep me (& the wife) on the road until I get home. I can't phone home and ask for a lift if she is standing beside me!! Besides we could be 50 miles away and I'd be bl@*^y cold by the time she got there.
I'm now in the market for an additional multi tool so will study all your suggestions and also add some extras in like tyre boot, zip ties and a bit of gaffer tape for example.
I'll list what I decide when complete if anyone interested.
Cheers Steve
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I am sure there will be interest in what you decide to carry.
We go out and choose the most reliable bikes that money can buy and then carry a bag full of tools and spares.
I am sure a shrink would have a field day on this site.
Regards
Andy
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my son in law just snapped a photo of my tool bag hopefull dan will post it shortly.
btw my soninlaw thinks i'm mental ;D ;D.
Swislon be honest what do you think of the barley i might just buy one next weel but want to be sure its the right one . ;)if you have a photo of it on your bike please post thanks.
chers
anto.
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I'm afraid I don't have a photo but could take one in next day or two. There are lots of photos on the web, try lovely bicycle blog, my favourite and she has a review of the Barley, sorry cant link you to it because I'm on my daughters iPad and don't know how to!!!!
I like the Barley. The small under seat bags are ok for a summer short ride and many in the group I ride with only use these bags all year round even on long rides. However for me on anything over two hours I want some capacity! I have tried a few different options like a rack top bag or a Carradice maxi saddlepack but always found the solution wanting. The Barley for me is ideal abit Old school and perhaps a little heavy but plenty of room for tools, snacks, rain jacket, gloves, leg warmers and an extra layer. I usually take a while to get warm on a ride and prefer to wear layers that I can take off once warmed up.
I use the Carradice Bagman to support it on the RST but use nothing on the other two bikes. I have also put something in to give it some structure so it doesn't flop when empty.
I think the Barley is already a classic certainly with a lot of audax riders but apparently only in black mines green so doesn't count apparently! My wife's is black so hers does!!!
What else can I tell you?
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swislon thanks for that the barley sounds good so.i was using the camper saddlebag but yeah it's way to big for day rides, i also have the bag support nice rack but find it that bit to narrow, i hate the carradice bag floping over the sides looks terrible ::) pity carradice dont stiffen the inside of there bags in some way.
anyway no more moaning thanks for the info. ;)
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Jags, I use correx board to stiffen the Barley. It is what Estate Agents boards are made from but ours comes from fresh fish boxes when we buy from the fish man! You can buy on the web. It is stiff and waterproof so good for the bags. The difference between the Audax bag and the Barley seems to be the fastenings. I actually like the leather straps myself but could easily get used to the clips.
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[Posted on behalf of jags...]
Hi All!
Here are some photos of Jags' day-ride, take-along tool kit...looks like it covers just about every contingency in an amazingly small space!
Also, some photos of his bags, mounted on his two most frequent rides, his Raleigh go-fast bike, and his Sherpa tourer, followed by a fine photo of the man himself.
Best,
Dan.
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I use correx board to stiffen the Barley. It is what Estate Agents boards are made from but ours comes from fresh fish boxes
Ah! Steve, I know this stuff as "coroplast". Wonderful stuff, it is like corrogated carboard, but made of waterproof plastic instead. It can be silkscreened, and takes paint well. Best of all, you can make just about anything and everything out of it, including shells for velomobiles ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/15644592486/photos/ ). It makes really nifty stiffeners for panniers, bag liners, whatever. Coroplast materials resource here: http://www.coroplast.com/
Here are a few of my favorite sites for bike and touring-related coroplast/correx projects:
http://highmileagetrikes.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default
http://highmileagetrikes.blogspot.com/
http://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking-bike-expedition/frame-bag-made-coroplast-781618.html
http://www.carsstink.org/peterson/FendForYourself.html
Best,
Dan. (...a whole world can be made of repurposed Coroplast, but it will be faceted and likely have names printed on it)
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excellent Dan what would i do without ya, ;D
did you notice my bell on the raleigh and my dog and viser on front mudguard sherpa.
yip my tool box has all i need for a tour and its small enough to pack in the pocket of the rack bag.
thanks dan.
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did you notice...
It all looks "class", jags! First-rate and top-notch!
The brass bell on the Raleigh and the little dog "mudguard mascot" on the Sherpa both look terrific. Gotta have a mudguard mascot! See: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk//index.php?topic=4523.msg22087#msg22087
Nice toolkit, too. I see...a Swiss Army knife, 3 anodized-aluminum tire levers (with a special cap made of clear tubing so they will stay together and the ends are blunted), a little caddy full of allen wrenches, a spanner, screwdriver, cable nippers, a tube of Super Glue (smart!), at least one spare battery (also very smart!), and maybe a patch kit..all in a nice zippered case so things can't get lost. Good to include that 10Euro note, too. A nice, practical setup to cover all contingencies; I can see why you're popular in a group.
Now I can leave all my tools home when we ride together! (ducking and running...).
All the best,
Dan.
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yes Dan well covered actually theres a few more bit n bobs in there extra batteries brake cable and gear cable spoke key wee bit chalk ;) i'm quiet happy to break down with this kit well you know what i mean. ;D ;D
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Hell, if I rode with anyone who had a toolkit like that, I wouldn't carry any tools at all! Unfortunately my typical pedal pal doesn't even know which end of the tool to hold, never mind own it. So I either fix their bikes or I ride alone. You wouldn't be thinking of moving to the sun in West Cork, would you, Jags?
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Hah no danger Andre as beautiful as it is it's very hilly .
mind you you do get a reputation when your known to carry a good tool kit .
lets get anto to fix it, i used to go out with a group and when they knew i was going to be there they wouldn't even bring a spare tube. ;D ;D