Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: jags on August 07, 2012, 10:24:02 pm
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quick question whats the best defence against midges when camping/ touring. ;)
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Hi,
People say to use skin-so-soft and citronella sprays, I've found they help a bit but not great either. Maybe DEET stuff is more effective but probably not too good health-wise.
Some tips I've found useful.... a bit of wind (slightly more than a breeze) should take them away, so maybe camp in a bit more of an exposed location or up on high ground. Don't camp too near lakes or open water. And shut the inner mesh net on your tent as quickly as you can! Oh and being close to a fire seems to keep them away. I've seen people wear midge head nets but they're a bit awkward.
Good luck, looking forward to more suggestions
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Hi jags!
Darragh has done a good job covering most of the common approaches, and there's not much to add. As for myself, I have decided to take a mosquito net and drape it over my helmet while taking my next ride through Eastern Oregon's Malheur Game Refuge. Last time through, I swear the mosquitoes intended carrying me off to their young. As I headed into Burns, the leading sides of my forearms were completey gray with them, and inhaled them till I gagged and spat them out again. They wadded up drowned in the corners of my eyes. They got in my ears and screamed, then I did the same.
Never again!
Hence the mosquito net for the helmet. Getting bitten to death is one thing...getting the little evil-doers trapped in my helmet vents is exquisite agony for my bald noggin; that's where the netting comes in. The thing squashes down to fit in a repurposed earbud pouch, so: Very Small.
The net I got is by Coughlan's of Canada, shown here: http://www.amazon.com/Coghlans-Mosquito-Head-Net/dp/B003ZZWGJK
They do whole-body mesh suits (jacket and pants), too: http://www.amazon.com/Coghlans-BUGJACKET-Bug-Jacket/dp/B002C3GXQ8
Ah, but this is War, and war is never pretty, so the headnet protection will be hardened with a heavy dose of my new Picaridin bug spray. Unlike my usual 100% DEET (you bet I'm still going to carry it! War, remember?), it promises "...insect repellent without the odor. Won't harm plastics. Not greasy or oily. Won't damage synthetic materials". My current choice is Cutter Advanced Insect Repellent in a 1 oz. pump dispenser, as available here: http://www.amazon.com/Cutter-Advanced-Insect-Repellent-Pump/dp/B000HHO2QY Picaridin has just recently become available in the States, but I understand it has been available for some time in Australia and Europe, where it has been found to be effective, so you'll likely find other brands there.
I also found the little buggies would swarm and bite my back in the lee of my own headwind as I rode along. I couldn't reach around and slap them off with any effectiveness, and hills were agonizing. As soon as I slowed or stopped, they were on me. I promised my kingdom and firstborn (both yet to materialize) for a naptha-fueled flamethrower, all to no avail. Next time, I'll treat my jersey to a good spray of Picaridin first and hope for the best. If not that, DEET it is.
Around camp..boy. That's a tough one if the bugs are as thick as they were outside Frenchglen. Once in the tent, I could slap them into oblivion (they were wanting out by the time I got their numbers down to a mere 30 or so...), but outdoors while cooking? I gave up on warmed food one night and went with a couple of energy bars, eaten in the mesh shelter of my inner tent. Nasty little things! Bathroom time in the Great Outdoors was something else. My! I think I set new records for speed and efficiency in operations and execution.
So, give the newer, non-DEET repellents a try as well and see how they do. My early tests with this one look very promising, and it is so nice I won't have to worry about clouded compass crystals, spoiled map cases, and sticky handlebar tape as with DEET. The net is a pretty nifty thing, too, and well worth it for the size and weight while riding through midge swarms or in camp. Combine the two for relative bliss; that's what I'm planning.
All the best,
Dan. (whose vocabulary of choice in such conditions is "Yaaaaaaaaaaaah! 'Skeeters!" Yaaaaaaaaaaaah!" [repeat])
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Oh! More tactics...I almost forgot this one, probably 'cos I have never used it...
Last time I was getting a cavity filled, my dentist and her assistant were visiting about this topic as she drilled. The assistant asked if I had ever chewed match-heads. "Ahhhhh-ah-ah-ahhh" was the best I could manage at the time, meaning "No, 'can't say as I have".
It seems her brother was just home from the Army, where he served in the Middle East near a river estuary full of reeds and mosquitoes. Apparently, all his platoon members had taken to chewing on match-heads, and when he was home on leave, he told his sister. After some skeptical banter, she followed his advice, went camping in early spring snowmelt amidst clouds of mosquitoes and midges and is now a believer. Accoriding to Those Who Know, the resulting sulphur content in the match-chewer's system repels the bugs.
That might be the least of their troubles.
While it made entertaining fare as my filling set up, I'm inclined to go with this doctor's advice and avoid it:
http://www.backpacker.com/community/ask_buck/14
Anyone had good luck with this somewhat unorthodox insect repellent?
Best,
Dan.
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quick question whats the best defence against midges when camping/ touring. ;)
I carry a large hammer.
::)
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I carry a large hammer.
Like!
Best,
Dan. (looking at common hand tools in a whole new light...)
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keep the car door closed and stop messing around on bikes?
Personally i find that the various lotions and potions are not all that effective to start with and get even less so as soon as my sweat glands see a hill coming. The avon stuff supposedly stops them biting but doesn't stop that horrible itchy, i'm covered in midges feeling. I reckon the best bet would be a mosquito head net such as recommended by dan and some long mosquito prof gloves if you can find them (http://www.deltaforces.eu/eq735-mosquito-gloves.html). Apart from that long lightweight trousers, Long sleeve top and try and keep in the wind and the rain.
Maybe as a community we could work towards getting one of these powered by hub dynamo http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-build-a-Tesla-Coil/
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i was watching a programme on moonshiners ;D ;D
these guys were hiding well into the forest for obvious reasons ;D ;D
but there defence against the midges was Mouthwash. has anyone tried this wonder does it work 8)
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I bought a can of DEEP WOODS OFF ! extra strength in Vancouver as instructed by our Canadian host. It frightens the hell out of English bugs.
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Skin so Soft is good and not unpleasant to put on.
A midge net for head cover if around a camp site or sitting somewhere is reccommended as well.
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....eating lots of raw garlic (will keep anything away!) and vitamin B tablets apparently. Also if you have someone with you who the midgee's are more fond of then they'll be diverted from you!! You have to put up with the other person moaning though.. hehe!
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hah i could think of one perticular person i would like to share a midge storm with ;)
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quick reply to a quick question. In order of effectiveness best to worst
1. PERMETHRIN - it is a repellent for clothing NOT skin. It is simply fantastic stuff but a difficult to find (Lifesystems market it as EX4) You spary your cloths once and it lasts for the whole expedition / tour.
2. DEET - I hate this stuff. Keep it away from plastic at all costs! (it melts it as I found out to my cost) but I can not deny it does works.
3. Head net. Great for when the midges are out in a clouds thick enough to darken the sky but also a pain to use.
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ref the DEET - does anyone want a pair of foggy spectacles !
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thanks everyone might tri lifesystems that stuff should kill the little blighters. ;D
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ref the DEET - does anyone want a pair of foggy spectacles !
And (in my sad, sad experience over the years):
- Watch crystals
- Compass domes
- Camera cases
- Handlebar tape
- GPS housings
- Cell phones
- Bike computers
- Bell ringers
- Food packaging/zip-top bags
- Urethane coating on raingear
- Helmets and helmet buckles
- Cable housing (as when pulling the rear derailleur back to change a tire)
Fingers O' Death to anything plastic, if coated with 100% DEET. :'(
Kinda makes a head-net seem less inconvenient by comparison. :-\
Best,
Dan.
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Good stuff so ;)
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Hello,
I use Avon skin so soft but I hear there is a new product called smidge (smidge that midge) that's supposed to be good.
Traa
Jane
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quick question whats the Best defence against midges when camping/ touring. ;)
Camping in a windy place is the best, as Midges do not like wind! ;D
If you have to stop to eat, It's best to walk and eat at the same time!
Touring just ride fast! ::)
I'm lucky (Not?) to have not only come across Midges in New Zealand, But also Lappland! (I was driving Tour Bus's ;D)
Head net's are good to a point! But drinking and eating are hard with one on?
Pete..
:o
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Suggest buying Skin So Soft on ebay or similar.
Once you are in a midge area the shop prices are expensive for the same product.
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A 12 guage. Turn it on yourself if you miss the flies.
Midges drove my old man to smoking a pipe, the WMD potential of which is grossly underestimated (by those who do so).
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1. PERMETHRIN - it is a repellent for clothing NOT skin. It is simply fantastic stuff but a difficult to find (Lifesystems market it as EX4) You spary your cloths once and it lasts for the whole expedition / tour.
Permethrin doesn't so much repel the little blighters as kill them. It also kills cats and anything aquatic, so don't cuddle cats or go paddling if you've treated your clothing.
The normal use in the UK is for treating hiking socks & trousers to kill ticks before they bite.
I got some to paint in the top of my tent to make the post-zip up killing round easier, but haven't yet done so.
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Permethrin...also kills cats and anything aquatic
So the catfish are goners? ;)
No fooling, this is a very useful caution, as so many things we take for granted can harm our animal pals -- aspirin, chocolate, and also pest controls that are apparently safe for us (but not them).
I have been seriously considering a buff that has been treated with permethrin, but I am having second thoughts, as there will be a number of occasions where I will have it configured as a balaclava, coveriing my mouth and nose to keep out blowing dust in the desert.
Hmm. I need to give this some more thought; the little blurb telling about it on the buff site mentioned it was good through as many as 70 (!) washings. That has to be pretty stout stuff.
Thanks again for the animal cautions, Andrew.
Best,
Dan. ("no flies on me" might have new meaning here...)
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I use SMIDGE. Developed in Scotland and the only stuff I've tried that actually works - http://www.midgeforecast.co.uk.
Kevin
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I took SMIDGE to the Grampian Rally this year.
On the evening walk around Templars Park I was popular with the other cyclists as I shared it out, but not popular with the midges!
Julian.
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Permethrin doesn't so much repel the little blighters as kill them. It also kills cats and anything aquatic, so don't cuddle cats or go paddling if you've treated your clothing.
The normal use in the UK is for treating hiking socks & trousers to kill ticks before they bite.
I got some to paint in the top of my tent to make the post-zip up killing round easier, but haven't yet done so.
Yep totally agree with the above - it is nasty stuff - but it does work really well! Most mozi nets are impregnated with Permethrin for this reason. My personal experience has found it excellent. To date I haven't seen anyone have a skin reaction to cloths treated with Permethrin. On the other hand I have seen skin reactions to DEET.
I like the tip for the tent! I will be doing this soon!!
Stuart
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Hay!
1st of stay indoors!
2nd harding up!
Just go cycling and then go to the Pub!
Pete..........
;)
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I live in a place (the Ottawa Valley) that has bugs in the summer, lots of them, vengeful creatures. I've hiked the West Highland Way, and I'm told it's bad for midges; I didn't find them to be such a problem. People who know about all these things say that Winnipeg has the worst mozzies in the world; and then others say, nah, it's Yukon.
Then there are black flies, the worst of the lot.
So:
1)
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Hi folks,
My thread just vanished, so in case it happens again, here's my two-part conclusion, based on years of interaction with bugs on the Canadian shield--a more serious problem than midges, from my more limited experience in the Scottish Highlands:
1) DEET works well, BUT is carcinogenic and destroys nylon, so keep it away from tents, clothing, etc. Maybe use it sparingly on cotton clothing. Handy to keep around as it's highly flammable & will light a fire in the rain if you have a reliable source of flame.
2) Best non-DEET item I've ever used is called "Skeet-Addle". This is as effective a repellent as DEET, smells nice, & is non-toxic, though it doesn't last last quite as long between applications as does DEET. You can get it from a home business in Whitehorse, Yukon. Go to one of the best URLs in the world: www,aromaborealis.com Bev Smith sells cosmetics based on natural oils and recipes from indigenous peoples. My daughter introduced me to Aroma Borealis when she was working in Yukon. I find the spray version off Skeet-Addle works best, though the cream version is nicer on the skin, if one is a member of the Celtic diaspora & susceptible to dry skin.
Pls greet bev for me when you're in touch,
Good luck,
John Saxby
PS: Of course, you can save yourself a lot of trouble by just ignoring the wretched things--but given the choice, I'd go for Skeet-Addle.
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I live in a place (the Ottawa Valley) that has bugs in the summer, lots of them, vengeful creatures. I've hiked the West Highland Way, and I'm told it's bad for midges; I didn't find them to be such a problem. People who know about all these things say that Winnipeg has the worst mozzies in the world; and then others say, nah, it's Yukon.
Then there are black flies, the worst of the lot.
So:
1)
Ha, Have you been to Lapland!
mozzies are big and try to eat your food (and you) before you do!
Only way to stay away from them is to keep moving.
;D
Pete.....
;)
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My first post to the forum, I've been reading for a while but there are a couple of comments that I felt should be covered with a little bit of science and so I have registered as a forum member to have a say.
DEET as a carcinogen should be clarified and the use of Citronella is pretty much a waste of time.
And so here are the links to some real information and research.
www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0002fact.pdf
www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/westnile/resources/deetgen.pdf
http://theconversation.edu.au/aussies-vs-mozzies-a-users-guide-to-repellents-10964
The last link is an article with a number of links to some research on repellents.
Having been attacked and monstered by a number of different flying and crawling creatures over the years, I've long given up on folk remedies and the like and stick to using those remedies as advised by scientific research. To minimise the use of chemicals, I prefer to use microfibre clothing wherever I can, you can see why when you follow the links.
Oh, and before I forget. Hello everybody. : )
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Welcome to the forum and I am sure you will get some appreciative comments about the links you have supplied.
Andy