Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Transmission => Topic started by: Danneaux on August 07, 2012, 05:45:16 am
-
Hi All!
A new/old cainring shifting method has come to my attention, and you may find it interesting. It is the Vyro, developed since 1993 by Austrian Gregor Schuster. He has run out of funds and is requesting a buy-in to meet his production costs for an initial run in Spring 2013. I have no financial or other interest in the product, but do find it intriguing.
On his YouTube video, Gregor says the unit is much simpler than derailleur systems and much lighter than hub-gear (IGH) units such as those offered by Shimano and Rohloff. He indicates someday he would like to expand the system to the rear of the bike, but for now his efforts center on the front changer/chainring selection, which appears to be limited to a double setup at present (aiming for the downhill/freeride market).
In my memory, the basic principles are not new, but the execution may be; he is pretty tight-lipped about the actuator details. Basically, his design uses a segmented large outer chainring and what appears to be an intact small inner. The segments in the large ring are hinged and "fold" over the small ring to pick up the chain. It appears the chain is engaged at two points until it seamlessly makes the transfer completely from one to another.
It is certainly an intriguing idea, but there have been many expanding-segment and hinged/folding segment chainrings and rear-drive systems over the years, including the ill-fated Browning B.E.A.S.T. unit that SunTour poured a lot of money into before it um, folded ( http://www2.bsn.de/cycling/articles/browning.html ). Yankee Bicycles*/NordicTrack ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsZJhPGcByQ ) marketed an expanding/contracting segmented-chainring bicycle in the very early 1990s. In turn, its drive system was much like the Tokheim ( http://www.parktool.com/blog/calvins-corner/tokheim-shifting-system ).
The Vyro video is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toym0NTle5Q
The Vyro company (at present, only Gregor) website is here:
http://www.vyro.com/index.php?p=about
A nice overview and summary of available information about the Vyro appears here:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/08/06/german-approach-to-a-practical-revolution-in-gearbox-tech/#more-47070
While the Vyro shows promise, the version we are shown is clearly a proof-of-concept/advanced prototype with some refinement needed. For example, the exposed springs of the shifting mechanism will have to be shielded or they will soon clog with mud and dirt. While the chain is guided, the entire mechanism is exposed, and that can't bode too well over time. I can't help but think a Hammerschmidt or Schlumpf (especially) semi-sealed or fully-sealed planetary 2-speed crank-based gearbox would be more reliable, but without a 58Euro minimum buy-in, there is really no way to fully and fairly evaluate what Gregor has. I wish him well; there's always room for innovation, and I like the apparent transparency of grass-roots approach to raising funds.
Anyway, fun to see another stab taken at a shifting alternative.
Best,
Dan.
*(Side note: The Yankee bicyce had one of the most interesting braking systems I have ever seen, and it was amazingly effective in the sample I tested back in the day. It depended on an extruded side channel in the rear Araya rim, with a contracting-band brake consisting of an extra-long braided stainless-steel brake cable [not a "steel band" as the YouTube video claims], whose end was anchored to the frame with a bolt that allowed it to loosely graze the extruded channel. There were no brake blocks of any kind; the sole friction material was a woven tube of Kevlar that rode with almost no friction in the alu rim channel. The beauty of the system -- besides its utter simplicity -- was the inventor's discovery that a) braided Kevlar makes a great dry friction material against aluminum in contracting-band applications, and b) the friction coefficient actually increases when the lot gets wet. I was lukewarm on the expanding "gearing" but was really hot on the braking system. Here's a tip for budding marketeers: Make brake blocks using folded Kevar weave. These things get invented over and over again, only to be forgotten or replaced. They do work in the wet, though. Boy! Do they! Last a good long time, too, but so do Kool-Stop salmon-colored pads and they have name recognition and market penetration, so there you go).
-
Hi Dan
I saw that and started thinking about Suntour (1980) it's not new! I thank I have seen some think about the same on a mower!
Pete.....
-
...it's not new!...
You're absolutely right, Pete!
I am beginning to think of the Bicycle Industry in much the same light as Hollywood -- a few blockbuster hits, then endless remakes every 20 years or so (anyone see Total Recall has just been remade?). And, the remakes aren't necessarily better (Total Recall never actually makes it to Mars this go-'round. What's up with that?!?).
One thing that didn't die out and actually did improve was Shimano's indexing systems...they have come a long way since the Positron days. Kinda getting into diminishing returns with 10- and 11-speed drivetrains.
What's next?
My guess...more Internally-Geared Hubs (planetary), especially if Shimano also develops 14 or 14+n gear combos and brings its manufacturing and distribution capacity to draw a bead squarely on Rohloff. Oddly enough, I think it won't be driven by the MTB or touring market so much as the commuter market.
Best,
Dan. (who wishes his crystal ball wasn't so cloudy...)
-
Five Horsemen of the Cycling Apocalypse
Funky saddles
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XyBwISLhMQU/TtPzUM1DbCI/AAAAAAAADf8/smIKsrckDFQ/s1600/SpiderFlexonGreenZone.jpg)
Cranky chainrings (oval, elyptical or split)
(http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Rarest/pmp+oval.jpg)
Shaft-drives
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VW8jqZ5ph-g/T0KlHuGgA4I/AAAAAAAAAIQ/gdXhQzjQxHs/s1600/1899-Columbia-Model-59-Shaft-Drive-Bicycle-3.jpg)
Air-less tyres
(http://bmxsociety.com/uploads/bmxdb/parts/294_285997.jpg)
and
Automatic gears
(http://mombat.org/286Browning.jpg)
All first invented in the 1890s, constantly re-invented, never commercially successful on the market. There's a reason for this ::)
-
Five Horsemen of the Cycling Apocalypse
Hahahaha! ;D ;D ;D
Pete, you are an inspiration with that title and those photos!
Annnnnnd...guess what? We'll be seeing them again, over and over and...
Mark my words!
All the best,
Dan. (still chuckling over this one... :D)
-
I can see the point in the oval chain rings but what was the thinking behind the dog leg/L shaped cranks? In fact I can see the thinking behind all of the others just not the cranks.
-
I think the L-shaped cranks was some severely misplaced belief that it would overcome the dead-spot in crank rotation ::)
All of the ideas have a serious rationale behind them..... trouble is their disadvantages generally outweigh any benefit they provide ;D
There have been all sorts of attempts to create an alternative drivetrain system (http://www.zoxed.eu/photos/bikes_drives.html). The Deal-drive was one of the classics
(http://www.zoxed.eu/photos/images/bikes/drives/Deal_Drive_fitted_Bicycle_March_1983_l.jpg)
-
I guessed it might be to overcome the dead-spot in crank rotation, but it only takes a fraction of a second to realise that it makes no sense! How did the inventor hold on to the notion that it would work for long enough to do more than just draw it and then bin it?
-
Some idea's are just to make money!
Little black box wired to battery to make your car go better? a bottle (and hose) to intake mainafold on a Moto-X bike adding more power?
All mad idea's that only made money!
Pete..
:P
-
Annnnnnd...guess what? We'll be seeing them again, over and over and...
Mark my words!
You are so correct there Danneaux. PMP cranks from 1981....... reborn as the revolutionary, energy-efficient E-chein (http://www.bikerumor.com/2009/07/22/curved-cranks-claim-greater-efficiency/). ::)
(http://www.e-chien.com.tw/images/u6.jpg)
-
Hi Pete,
Speaking for myself, I've surely enjoyed the trip down "Bizarro Memory Lane" your photos are providing. Thanks! These things really *do* come around every little while, and everything old is new again.
I've always enjoyed looking back through Daniel Rebour's bike show art, depicting what was new at the time (things got really interesting for tourists in the late-1940s and through the 1950s and early 1960s with the French constructeurs like Alex Singer and Rene Herse, among many more. the products he drew presaged many imitators in the years to follow, including Shimano who skimmed more than a few past ideas for their more recent products. For those unfamiliar with touring and road bikes of that era, take a look at some of the acrhives here:
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/rebour/
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/daniel-rebour
http://www.outyourbackdoor.com/article.php?id=536 <= Notice the Jack Taylor trailer and how much the later BOB trailer resembles it.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=daniel+Rebour+data+book&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1173&bih=594&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=Zw8nUK2aCcSliQLTvIG4Dw
All the best,
Dan. (who wouldn't mind seeing more...again! :D)