Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: navrig on July 20, 2022, 03:46:22 pm
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I am just back from a 4 day/3 night mini-tour from Mallaig to Home. 240 miles across the highlands, down through Perthshire/Fife and across East Lothian. This was my first tour but nit my first experience of back to back riding days.
I have come home with questions, lessons and observations and, once again, want to tap into the massive experience on this website. This tour was a precursor to a 3 month tour planned for Europe next April.
I am a roadie and I wore my roadie lycra rather than buying touring clothing. I was wearing SPD MTB, shoes with double sided Shimano pedals. My bike is a Shand Stoater with rear rack, hub dynamo and Ortlieb panniers and bar bag. I tried to carry the same amount of stuff as I will for the 3 month tour, accepting that it was more than I needed for 4 days. I just wanted to heel the weight and get used to the bike handling.
I will not be camping so stayed at hostels and, on this occasion, ate in local pubs/cafes.
Lessons learned/questions:
I need a better system for packing. By the end of the 4 days my clothes and kit were all mixed up in the panniers.
How do I split stuff between the 2 panniers ensuring ease of access and finding what I want quickly?
Are these net bags used to separate stuff in suitcases any good for touring? (we have some in the house)
The bar bag also ended up mixed up - is it worth creating dividers for stuff in there? (I wish the inside was white, I might be able to see things then!!)
My trainer style shoes may be too pliable so I may have to switch to stiffer soles and therefore need to take a 2nd pair of shoes. I guess this is a personal issue but I was getting hot-spots at about 50 miles.
The tour was after a week of gravel riding on the same bike. The drivetrain was dirty and covered in grass. How do you wash your bike during a longer tour?
A large bag of wine gums in the bar bag was great at stopping cotton-mouth. Will I find Bassat's Wine Gums through Europe? ;D
I have other observations and questions but my battery is about to die so I'll come back later.
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The answer to all your questions is that you'll find out what works for you. But as I'm stuck at home with nothing better to do, I'll answer what I've found works for me,
Packing - For clothes, I use two stuff sacks, clean and dirty, the clean goes in the pannier with the bedding and sleep stuff, I'm not too bothered where the other goes, wherever it'll fit, until I get round to laundering it, I don't need it anywhere. I suppose netting sacks might work, but there's not much weight to be saved and my clean clothing one doubles up as a pillow.
Split between panniers - as above, only one of them needs to come into the inner tent. The other can stay in the porch.
Organisation, I pack up what can be before going to bed, just as importantly I haven't unpacked what I haven't needed. That comes from routine, knowing where what you need will be.
I prefer a small bar bag, there's only the essentials in it, camera, phone, wallet, keys, plus powerpack if in use. If I need more capacity I'll add it elsewhere, stem bag, top tube...
Shoes I can't help with, I never had a problem with MTB SPD's and now find big flat pinned pedals and grippy shoes even more comfortable.
Bike cleaning :o Did you go for a chain or belt? I do the minimum of chain cleaning, same as at home, wipe, oil, leave overnight, wipe off. The rest of the bike, if it's really dirty might get taken to the campsite tap and wiped down with a J-Cloth. But that doesn't happen often.
Jetwash - This can be controversial, use with caution, don't point it anywhere near a bearing, wash the bike along it's centreline rather than across it, and IMO it's fine, it's never caused me an issue, often a quid well pent at the garage opposite me.
More importantly, minimise how dirty it gets, do you have mudguards? How about mudflaps? Not always practical I know, but it's sometimes comical to see riders with and without at the end of the same ride.
Did I mention J-Cloths, these would be my desert Island luxury. Use after a shower to get 90% dry before using your towel, do the washing up, wipe the dew of the tent before packing away, clean the chain and bike, a single cloth can be used for multiple tasks, in the right order obviously ;)
Wine gums - no idea! I like dried apricots.
If I had a top tip, it would be to sort the bike out ASAP when you arrive each day, I do this as soon as the tent is up, before getting cleaned and changed or eating. Whatever you've been thinking needs doing as you ride along, which may be nothing, do it now, while you remember, it it turns out to ba a bigger job, you have time to sort it, then put the bike away and know it's ready to ride.
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Thanks PH. Stuff sacks are a good suggestion.
I went for a chain but on this occasion the bike was exceptionally dirty after having been sprayed with cut grass after we parked up on a grass verge which was subsequently strimmed!! I was non too pleased at that. Gradually the grass mulched down into a fine paste which has started to gum up the drivetrain. I think that was an extreme situation.
J-cloths - noted. I have been using a micro-fibre towel I bought for drying the car after a wash. It's not too bulky super absorbent and dries quickly. I only use a jet wash on the frame of my MTB when it is caked in mud otherwise I use a brush on the drive train. I'll have to work out something for the chain.
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Clothing, I pack that in packing cubes. A couple exceptions, my down vest goes either in a small dry bag with my stocking cap or it goes into the same stuff sack as my sleeping bag. And my rain gear usually gets strapped on top of my Ortlieb Front Roller panniers where it is handy.
When you say net bags, they probably are the packing cubes I cited.
I have a small cardboard box inside of my handlebar bag. It helps keep long skinny objects vertical. The box is never removed, it just offers some organization in keeping things in place better. First photo.
I use SPD cleats on my shoes. I also bring a pair of hiking shoes (waterproof, might be Goretex?) to use in the campsite. But there are some days when I ride with my hiking shoes instead of bike shoes. I use pedals that have one side platform and one side SPD cleat so both types of shoes work on the pedals.
Speaking of cleats, I use blue (removable) thread locker on my cleat bolts and rack bolts. You do not want to lose one cleat bolt and you really do not want to lose two. Loctite is one brand of thread locker. I carry one cleat bolt in my bag of spares.
I usually do not wash a bike on tour, usually the rain is very good at that. I have used many different chain lubes over the years, but now when touring I only use a wax based lube that does not pick up dirt. Second photo was taken on the last tour that I did with a petroleum based lube before switching to wax based, the chainring was dirtier than it looks. Now, when touring I use Finish Line Ceramic Dry lube. But on a rainy day instead I use rain water for lube. Keep in mind that a clean bike is more theft prone than a dirty bike.
Speaking of a dirty bike, if you see a doctor or dentist, ask them if they can give you a few pairs of the disposal gloves they use, they come in handy if you have to do a repair or change an inner tube. Pre-covid, they were always happy to give me a handful, but they might be harder to get for free now.
I have not ridden on trails with grass, only gravel and dirt, can't comment on grass.
Chain lube is in handlebar bag, I want to be able to use it right away if my drivetrain is noisy, I do not want to think that I will remember to lube my chain in a campground later, as I always forget.
I have not toured Europe, I only have toured in areas where the risk of theft was quite low. But I suspect you will need a good lock for Europe. I bought a Bordo 6100 for my titanium bike, as that bike looks expensive and I do not want to lose it. I also favor combination locks. A good U lock might be better but if your lock is too good you will get careless. Also when touring I use bolt on skewers instead of quick release. Usually my frame is locked up but not both wheels. And I pack the 5mm wrench for the skewers with my spare tubes (2 tubes and patch kit).
I use fenders (mudguards) when I can, but some trips they were too much bulk for my disassembled and packed bike.
You said nothing about hill climbing and gearing, so I assume you have the gearing you need.
Staying indoors, you should always have access to power to charge up devices, a sink with a drain stopper to do sink laundry, etc. So, life should be pretty simple if you are not camping.
Third photo, another handlebar bag photo.
Sometimes I use Ortlieb Panniers, sometimes a different brand. Fourth photo, my raingear strapped on top of front Ortlieb panniers.
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I don't have problems with my stuff getting mixed up.
Perhaps it is easier with the front and rear pannier setup I generally use. My Ortlieb rear panniers have one single, undivided main compartiment, plus a fairly flat and less rainproof side pocket, which I don't really use, except in good weather to stow a map for quick access. I added an extra pocket on the rear of the rear panniers, the idea here being to keep potentially dirty items separate from the rest.
My Ortlieb front panniers are smaller and have a single compartment.
When I think it is useful I use bags inside the panniers to keep groups of items together. For example, different coloured lightweight dry bags to pack textiles, one colour for cycling clothing, another for evening clothing, and another for sleeping bag and liner. I have a stronger nylon bag for food and the nylon bag that came with my Trangia stove for all the cooking kit except the burner and fuel.
I don't use a handlebar bag. Instead I have a very lightweight 15 litre rucksack, in which I have my camera, mobile phone, documents, and other stuff I want to take with me if I leave the bike locked up.
My tent is carried strapped to the rear rack, because I don't want it inside a pannier if I have to pack it wet.
Each item or group of items has its assigned place in the luggage, which I generally manage to respect.
For example,
The left-hand rear pannier (food, cooking, documents) contains:
- The 15 litre rucksack with my documents.
- My food bag.
- My cooking kit.
The extra pocket on the rear of this pannier contains the stove fuel and burner.
And the right-hand front pannier (evening kit) contains:
- My off-bike trousers.
- A battery powered torch.
- Sleeping bag and liner.
- Wash kit and towel.
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Mickeg - great response, thanks.
Gearing - I think my gearing is fine. It won't cope with alpine cols but I should be ok with it on most other climbs.
Useful points:
take a universal sing plug/stopper
a box or dividers in bar bag can be useful - I'll make something
review chainlube choice (currently Finish Line wet lube)
take a cleat bolt and consider threadlock on some bolts
I have a decent Abus padlock and steel rope as a lock. Who know if it is good enough. I'll only find out if the bike is stole!!
My axles are bolt through rather than QR.
Keep in mind that a clean bike is more theft prone than a dirty bike.
Good point but not something which will affect me. I am very happy to have a grotty looking bike as long as the drivetrain is reasonable clear and smooth.
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Thanks MartinF.
My plan is to take full days off and do some touristy stuff so I will be taking other shoes - probably trail trainers- and a small rucsac but wont wear that. I'll probably strap that to the top of the rack and use it to store the shoes not being worn that day.
I still have to work out what toiletries/medication/washgel I need to take. There has to be a balance between taking very little and paying for stuff as you go.
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My gear is pretty much the same for a week long trip as it is for a month and a half long trip. But I do not like to run out of small items on my trips, so on a longer trip I start with a newer larger bar of soap, more toothpaste in the tube, a few more ounces of laundry soap, etc.
Campgrounds almost never have sinks with a drain stopper but if you are staying indoors, most sinks do. Exception is a few hostels I have stayed at lacked a drain stopper. Mine is a flat silicone one.
If I was staying indoors, I would bring a couple plastic shirt hangers if they fit in a pannier. If you do sink laundry and let it drip dry in the shower (if you have your own private shower stall), a couple hangers can help it drip dry a bit faster.
I usually have two shirts, two pair of pants of which one might be convertible to shorts, two bike jerseys, two bike shorts or one might be bike pants that are convertible to shorts, four pair of underwear, four pair of socks. All of these clothes are quick dry fabric, so as travel clothing.
Clean clothes are in packing cubes, dirty laundry might be in a separate mesh bag.
Most people do not wear underwear under their bike shorts, but I do. Thus, I do not mind wearing the same bike shorts for a few consecutive days.
Outerwear, varies on where I go and expected climate. Thus, not elaborating. But I always carry a down vest, it is nice to have when it is cool.
In hot weather, I am less likely to use rain pants and rain covers over my bike shoes. Thus, sometimes I have very wet bike shoes. There have been days when I had my wet bike shoes strapped on top of a pannier while I was wearing my hiking shoes. Thus, the two sided pedals for both types of shoes comes in handy.
I know you said you are staying indoors, but I thought I would briefly describe some of how I pack.
- Front right pannier, tent and other stuff that can get wet or stay wet without damage.
- Front left pannier, cooking gear, some food.
- Rear panniers, every trip I do it differently.
- Bag on top of rear panniers, usually that is food, my second pair of shoes that are odd shape and pack poorly are usually in this bag too. Often at end of trip, this bag is empty, if it is a dry bag with minimal stiffeners I might fold it up and put in a pannier.
- Handlebar bag with all valuables and documents, this goes in grocery stores, restaurants, etc. Thus it is not just stuff I may want to access fast, but it also is the important stuff I can't lose. If I went several days without my meds, that would not be a big deal, but if you have meds that are important that you take, that is something you can't afford to lose.
Speaking of meds, they are in a dry bag. Separate dry bag with my blood sugar meter.
About eight years ago I bought a waterproof camera, VERY happy with that. I now can take photos on rainy days.
I am old enough that I need reading glasses to read my GPS on my bike. Some wrap around safety glasses are available as bifocals with reader inserts. First photo, I use a pair of yellow ones in overcast or rain, darker tinted in sun.
I carry two inner tubes and a patch kit of self adhesive patches. The self adhesive ones do not last forever, but they usually work for a few months. When at home, I peal off the self adhesive ones and glue good patches on.
Pump, I usually use a Lezyne Micro Floor Drive, a good alternative to that is a Toppeak Road Morph G. The Lezyne threads onto a valve stem, if the presta core is removable, that should be tightened with a wrench or the valve core might stay in the Lezyne chuck when you remove it.
A few extra M5 bolts, a quick link or two for the chain, a brake cable and shifter cable, good multi-tool. I previously mentioned a cleat bolt.
I use a leather saddle, that needs a rain cover and I put the rain cover on it every night in case of dew.
I assume you will be reasonably close to bike shops every few days. I would probably not bring a spare tire, but if I did it would not be a heavy replacement tire, it would be a thin light weight one that stays in the bottom of a pannier, but if needed is only good enough to get me to a bike shop.
I have had credit cards stop working in foreign countries, bring enough cards that you are not stranded if one stops working. I typically would carry three credit cards, one debit card that I only use in ATM machines to obtain local currency.
You are going to have a great time.
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A classic photo of a happy tourer !
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For footwear consider sandals. They provide more fresh air for the feet in hot weather and don't fill with water when it rains. There are cycling-specific sandals eg https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m6b0s154p0/Shoes-%7C-Clothing-%7C-Helmets/Shoes although I use Clarks Wavewalk sandals (unfortunately not currently available) which I discovered by accident are thicker under the ball of the foot and work nicely with flat pedals (trainers with the same sole are also not currently available). If cold conditions are anticipated then socks can be used, plus waterproof socks for cold and wet.
Europe in April mights still be cool but is likely to get hot by June so you'll need good water carrying capacity.
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Europe in April mights still be cool but is likely to get hot by June so you'll need good water carrying capacity.
JohnR makes a good point here. If you are starting or ending early cool nights can be an issue, especially in Eastern Europe. When I started 09 May in Bulgaria, nighttime lows were 3.3C/38F. I found the same when I left on 11 September.
In between, there was a LOT of heat in Romania, Serbia, and Croatia -- record-breaking levels. I carried three 1.5l bottles (4.5l total) on the bike and enough extra to allow for 8.5l/day for drinking alone...and consumed that each day. I found four additional 1l bottles could be tucked nicely beneath the lid tie-down straps on each of my Ortlieb cap-top SportPacker and BikePacker panniers. If you cannot find electrolyte replacement/energy drinks to prevent cramps, then alcohol-free beer(if it is imported from Germany, look for "Alkool frei" on the label) works nicely as a substitute.
Fortunately, you'll never be far from stores in Europe, though if you are in Bulgaria, beware of the "secret" or "hidden" markets that are run out of people's homes. The locals know where they are but there will be no signage to tell a stranger so ask around. The only hazard is these may be closed/locked on short or no notice. I once rode the Carpathian and Rhodope ridges for two days/250kms with with no food as a result. You can bet I carried 1-2 days of spare rations thereafter!
Best wishes in your travels, Dan.
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Dan makes a good point, you should check the weather averages for where you go for the time of year so you have an idea of past norms. And yes, I am aware that right now with record breaking heat waves we are far from norms.
This is my go-to website for checking past weather averages. Enter a community name that has a local airport. Lots of good info on average chance of precip, temperature, windage, etc. Note that they consider a day to have precip if it was over 0.04 inches or roughly 1 mm. Less than a mm and does not count.
https://weatherspark.com/
I like to pick a few places along my route and figure out what my hot to cold ranges will be to assess what kinds of clothing to bring and what range of temperature I need for sleeping bag.
But of course, you can always buy something you did not bring.
I am not sure what your bike capacity is for water bottles, my heavy touring bike (Thorn Nomad Mk II) holds three bottles, I use liter size bottles. See photo.
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If your clothing is too bulky when packed, you can buy compression stuff sacks.
They are a stuff sack, but have straps or cords that you can compress the sack (I sit on it to compress it) and tighten the cords or straps to keep the sack in that small volume from your compressing it.
If you yank on cord or strap to compress it, that can damage it so that is not the ideal way to do it. But you often see people doing that. I think it best to avoid developing that habit.
I have occasionally used them for clothing and always use them for sleeping bags.
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If your clothing is too bulky when packed, you can buy compression stuff sacks.
Yes, although we obsess about weight, bulk can be as much a hinderance.
I try not to carry more air about than necessary, like you I squeeze it out, though usually by kneeling rather than sitting on it.
There's a newer type of compression bag, that don't use straps, but instead have a valve or some other way of stopping the air getting back in. There's plenty of choice, Ortlieb do a few and I've been looking at a Sea to Summit one with a breathable fabric panel in the bottom to squeeze air out of. I'm toying with the idea of making some ultralight panniers, which probably won't be 100% waterproof, and this sort of bag inside the one where waterproof was a necessity.
Just a word of caution, in case it's not obvious, if you have any feather and down stuff (I have a quilt and gillet) it's probably a good idea not to over compress it. There's debate over the damage caused, even if there's none, the longer it's compressed the longer it'll take to recover and loft.
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Yes, although we obsess about weight, bulk can be as much a hinderance.
Within reason, I don't bother too much about bulk on a bicycle. I don't carry much spare clothing, my sleeping bag and inner have their original stuff sacks.
But I did get a more compact camping mattress after a trip with a reasonably light, very comfortable but very bulky foam mattress (photo below).
Rather than wind resistance, the main issue was the noise from the bin liner I used to protect it from the rain.
The much more compact self-inflating (and lighter) replacement I bought fits easily inside one of my panniers. Not quite so comfortable, but acceptable.
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I am, yet again, amazed at the help provided on this forum. Many thanks guys.
I can't respond to every point but in general:
Weather- I expect to have a full range of cool (Northern Spain (around Pyrenese) in April through to Greece in June. I am looking for a down gilet to cope with the short spell of cooler. I can then post it home if I and bothered by it's bulk. Any suggestions for a down gilet which packs down well?
It is going to get progressively hotter as I head down the Adriatic Coast with the end destination of Athens by end of June (Schengen allowances should be OK although with Croatia scheduled to join next year it is getting tighter).
Water - This is bothering me. I currently have 2 bottle cages and am looking into adding a third under the down tube. My target is averaging 50 miles a day and I intend to have proper towns at the start and end of each day so should be able to leave with full bottles and me fully hydrated. I may have to adapt my water strategy as I go.
Funnily enough I bought a Lezyne Micro Floor Drive a few months ago specifically for this trip.
Credit cards - I have 3 and have full internet access to both bank and CC company apps.
Accommodation - hostels most of the way with hotels in Albania where there seems to be few hostels and where hotels are cheaper.
GPS - I am currently using a Wahoo Elemnt with Komoot as a mapping app. It seems to work fine although the screen and TBT instructions are not brilliant.
Footwear - I have very good trekking sandals and am used to wearing them for sustained periods after a year in the middle east and a year in south east asia however I think I'll take trail trainers as they offer more support. I'll live with sweaty feet.
Bulk & spare clothing - I aim to take as little as possible and recycle evening clothes over a few days. I have planned on cycling 5 days in 7 as an average leaving 2 days for sight seeing and laundry. I used my road bibshorts over this mini-tour and it was comfortable. My arse generally copes with saddles and long days even without pads so I am thinking I may also take a pair of touring shorts. So I m not so concerned about bulk especially as I wont have a sleeping bag, stove or tent.
Mileage and progress - I would be interested to hear others' views on this. The overall trip is 4000km (EuroVelo8 mostly), Santander to Athens. It is a holiday with a bike rather than a biking holiday so I want to see and experience stuff on the way round. I have allowed 12 weeks and cycling 5 days per week at 80km per day. This gives 400km a week and 10 weeks giving me 2 weeks spare. My wife is considering coming out to Albania for 2 weeks to met me and have a holiday.
How does that sound?
Over this mini-tour I averaged 96km over the highlands and lowlands of Scotland and average 20km/h on 3 days and 17km/h on the day when the heat was very high and I started later (1000 instead of 0730). 20km/h felt fine although my luggage was not at full tour weight.
It's not a race and I recognise that everyone is different.
What do experienced tourers generally achieve?
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This was the bike loaded for the mini-tour. Compared to some of the bikes I've seen on here it is very light!
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... and I've been looking at a Sea to Summit one with a breathable fabric panel in the bottom to squeeze air out of. ...
I have some of those that are made by Granite Gear. Not sure if that brand is sold in your country or not.
https://www.granitegear.com/event-sil-compression-drysack.html
I am pretty happy with them. I am getting ready for a backpacking trip, just yesterday I put my sleeping bag, sleeping bag liner, down vest, neck gaiter and stocking cap in one.
Most of my trips use waterproof panniers or a waterproof backpack, but when it comes to keeping your down bag dry, redundancy does not hurt any.
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Hi Navrig,
Just a few odds & ends to add to what's already been mentioned:
i) Water & related: On longer tours through country where fresh water is not so readily available, I've packed a 2-ltr bladder (mine is made by MSR). And, water purification tablets. Sometimes those have a noticeable taste. I also use "Hydralyte" electrolyte tabs (made in Australia, but available here in Ontario -- not sure about UK & Europe.) The Hydralyte tabs also deal with the taste issue. And, unlike other electrolyte tabs sold here, they haven't left black mould on the inside of my water bottles.
ii) Down gilet: Obviously depends on your metabolism & preferences, but I live in a place with a 60º-plus swing betw winter and summer, and the only down gear I use is a couple of sleeping bags. I find that a lightweight fleece vest (100-weght polarfleece) over a merino base layer and a waterproof-breathable shell outer layer works well for anything down to about -10, depending on the wind. Below that, I just increase the weight of the merino and the fleece vest.
For touring in N American spring and autumn, I carry a 100-wt fleece vest. In the summer, and in mountainous terrain, I use a lighter still polyester longsleeved jersey.
iii) Cord: I may have missed this item in the gear lists above, but I usually carry about 25 ft of parachute cord or something similar. Ideal for a line for end-of-day washing strung betw a couple of trees.
Enjoy your big safari!
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Distance, sounds like a nice relaxing trip. My distances vary a lot, usually I pick a campground I want to go to and go to it.
My last tour was five weeks, that included several no-travel days. The no-travel days, mostly were due to rain or high wind. I had 6 days over 60 miles, 10 days over 50 miles (includes those days over 60), 12 days over 40 miles, and 12 days were less than 40 miles. Thus, a median of 40 miles. Windbound for 3 days, enough rain I chose not to travel on 3 days, and 3 days for sightseeing.
I use my Garmin 64 (a recreational grade gps, not a cycling specific one) to pick the route using the tour cycling option, but sometimes that is a crazy route. Then I see what the route looks like using automobile routing. If I do not like that I try Komoot cycling. Sometimes Komoot gives me something crazy, then I pick a good intermediate point that makes sense on the map and add that to the route. Sometimes I use Maps.Me on my android phone, automobile routing. And when all those look bad, I look at the paper highway map. I was surprised on my last tour how often the local road was better and shorter than the other highways that the computerized routing wanted me to take, I think that community roads are lower in the electronic prioritization so I think they are sometimes bypassed when they are in fact the best option.
In your photo, I can't see if you have flashing taillight or not. I like a flasher in back where legal, which is most places.
I usually use fenders (mudguards) when touring. But when I have flown somewhere they are too bulky to pack, so those trips either did not have or had tiny ones.
Do you have a rear view mirror? You might have noticed I have one in my photo with my yellow glasses, I prefer helmet mounting.
A drybag in teh 10 to 15 liter range strapped on top of the rear rack can come in handy if you suddenly have some bulk, like that big box of sale priced croissants that lasted for about five days on my last tour. Empty it can be folded up and shoved in the pannier when not in use.
I try to put my panniers just barely back enough to avoid heel strike, with maybe an extra 20mm of extra clearance as contingency. Your panniers look much further back than that, but maybe you have a really large shoe size.
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I've never done a month long tour. let alone anything longer, I did have a plan to spend eight weeks in Scotland prior to the pandemic, but if it ever happens it's unlikely to be before 2024. So my solo 10 - 20 day tours tend to be a bit higher mileage, the type where you come back knackered and have to go to work for a rest. Your 50 miles a day, for 5 out of 7 sound a good base plan, though I expect circumstance will vary it over the months. It sounds great.
Any suggestions for a down gilet which packs down well?
Mine came from Uniqlo, I like their stuff in general, there's nothing identical in the current range, but this isn't far off, I like how thin it is, so it can be worn under a jacket and I've slept in it more than once
https://www.uniqlo.com/uk/en/product/men-ultra-light-down-compact-vest-2020-season-429285.html?dwvar_429285_color=COL08&cgid=IDdown2165
I don't take it touring, but I also have the jacket version of this synthetic gillet, which has an impressive warmth to weight ratio
https://www.craghoppers.com/mens-expert-expolite-thermal-vest-dark-navy-1/
GPS - I am currently using a Wahoo Elemnt with Komoot as a mapping app. It seems to work fine although the screen and TBT instructions are not brilliant.
I use a Garmin Touring, though it's looking like it might not last much longer... I don't bother with TBT, I download as a track rather than a route which gives an unchanging line on the map. That way I can bee of route and still have it visible without any re-routing or beeping! The only exception to that is when I need specific directions to a campsite or supermarket or bike shop. I;m trying to get to grips with the OsMand app on my phone, as a back up if not primary. Which reminds me, I was reading elsewhere that water taps are a feature on OSM maps, which might be useful.
This was the bike loaded for the mini-tour. Compared to some of the bikes I've seen on here it is very light!
it isn't a competition, but this is my camping load for a couple of weeks UK touring
(https://live.staticflickr.com/5106/5685127176_05a159cce2.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/9EnLf5)Tiroll sunshine (https://flic.kr/p/9EnLf5) by Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/phbike/), on Flickr
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Water.
I have 3 bottle cages, one takes a 1.5l bottle, the other two 1l.
In my experience that is enough for drinking most of the time in reasonably civilised places in Europe.
When I cycled in a (minor according to todays standards) heat wave (30-32°C) I added two more 1l bottles for a total of 4.5l that fitted in the spare space in my panniers.
In hot weather I fill up whenever possible. In France or Spain I nearly always found an accessible tap marked "eau potable" (or the Spanish equivalent) in plenty of time to keep a reasonable reserve. On the rare occasions when I didn't I knocked on a door and asked one of the locals, never been refused yet. Sometimes I stopped in a bar or restaurant, and paid for a drink or had a meal, and asked to fill my water bottles before leaving.
If I think I might be doing some wild camping I have a 4l water pouch, that weighs about 120g empty. The idea here is to fill all the bottles and the pouch an hour or two before looking for a camping spot. In most circumstances 7.5 to 9.5 litres is plenty for cooking, dishwashing and drinking, with some left over for very limited personal hygiene use.
For higher temperatures, or for crossing long stretches of desert or uninhabited land, you would need much more. Last Monday I had to cycle for a bit less than an hour in 38-40°C shade temperatures. Taking it slowly I stopped 4 times to drink and used 1.5 litres of water. This was a "transport" ride, if touring I would be resting under a tree or somewhere else in the shade, waiting to carry on when the temperature dropped.
I don't bother taking water purification tablets any more. They might be useful in very sparsely-populated places with abundant natural water (Northern Scandinavia?, wild camping in the higher parts of the Pyrenees, etc.) or in places where you don't trust the water the locals drink (maybe some parts of Eastern Europe?)
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For higher temperatures, or for crossing long stretches of desert or uninhabited land, you would need much more.
<nods> Yep. When crossing America's Great Basin deserts -- particularly Nevada's Black Rock playa in summer -- I find 26.5 liters is about a 3-day supply at 8.5 litrs/day with 1 liter reserve. My Nomad typically has two 1 liter Zefal Magnum bottles co-located in cages on the steerer, three 1.5 liter bottles on the frame and two 10l MSR Dromedary water bags in reserve.
I take pH strips to first check the water is not too alkaline to drink. If it passes that test, then I use a cut-off section of pantyhose to filter it to mostly clear if it is cloudy (often the case in cattle troughs and watering holes), then use my Steripen for 1-2 full cycles, depending; the AA batteries are (re)charged by my dynohub/charger or my solar panel. Backup is chlorine and/or iodine tablets or drops and as a last resort, boiling (takes precious fuel but not so much if I simply prepare more than the minimum needed to reconstitute my evening meal). Giardia and water-borne hepatitis are the two big hazards where I go and so far, these precautions have worked to keep me well. Always a good idea to slop a little of the purified water over the rim of your vessel to wash away any contamination on the outside. Even a single drop can cause some real distress later.
Best, Dan.
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My load and contents vary depending on how far, how long, and where I go and this in turn determines the bike, bags, and packing scheme. I always prefer to go self-supported and solo camping on my own, usually in wild or stealth camps.
If I have a reasonable chance of resupplying water and food every day or other day in moderate weather conditions, then my "ultralight" setup based on a Carradice Camper Longflap with or without an added handlebar bag works nicely no matter the bike I choose, but works especially well with my lighter bikes. See...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11787.msg85858#msg85858
Lighter bikes tend to be ridden further/faster each day then heavier ones, so you can cover more ground and will be more likely to find opportunities for resupply. This can be a great strategy for a mostly paved-road tour near civilization but is not appropriate for back-of-beyond tours where you might only find water every 3 days and food every 2-3 weeks. For that, you need...
...The other extreme; here is my Nomad Mk2 outfitted as it typically appears on extended/expedition tours...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4523.msg99552#msg99552
I have sometimes added a one-wheel Extrawheel trailer/Ortlieb BikePacker panniers for extra water and food-carrying capacity and for the extra charging capacity (the trailer has its own SON dynohub and charger)...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4953.0
All the rest of my touring falls somewhere between these extremes as I select among my bikes to choose a favored one to suit a given tour. For example, my Enduro-Allroad bike ends up with a sort of bikepacking configuration using the Carradice Camper Longflap, handlebar bag and sometimes small front panniers. It has much of the Nomad's functionality at lighter weight but at the cost of less long-term reliability/longevity, lower cargo capacity and a rear derailleur that is hazardous to use when riding cross-country though brush and deadfall timber. I have double sets of Ortlieb BikePacker and SportPacker panniers and handlebar bags, so I can combine them on various bikes as need requires. One favorite "middle" setup uses four SportPackers, normally intended for use as smaller/front panniers and no HB bag at all.
One suggestion intended only to be helpful: If you check out the Forum's Cycle Tours board...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?board=26.0
...you'll often see descriptions and photos of the kit forum members use for their tours.
Best,
Dan.
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Distance, temperature and clothing.
Distance depends on what you want to visit or observe, the weight of kit carried, and on your physical condition.
Nowadays (age 66) I reckon 90km is reasonable for me when cycle-camping in moderately hilly terrain, that is about 5 hours at 18 km/h. I'd do the same distance happily in a morning putting in more effort on an unloaded bike at about 22 km/h.
11 years ago I did a 3,300 km tour in 27 days, which is an average of 122 km/day, including the "rest days".
But I trained for several months before going to get my fitness up, and my daily average speed and mileage varied a lot, with a maximum of 205 km in a very flat and relatively uninteresting area of France and much less in the Pyrenees, the Picos d'Europa and other mountainous bits I visited in Spain and Portugal.
Just pootling about on roads, paths and tracks, taking photos and looking at flora, fauna and buildings I was surprised to see that I had done 71 km on one of my "rest" days. I did less on a couple of my "cycling" days, once when it rained heavily and I holed up early in a youth hostel to dry out, another time when it was very hot and I didn't feel like going far.
Shade temperatures ranged from 1°C to 35°C, with a maximum range of 32°C in one day.
I didn't take very much clothing - cycling shorts, cycling tights, merino tops, rain gear and a synthetic microfibre quilted jacket that I didn't use on the bike (synthetic because down doesn't like getting wet, either by rain or by sweat). I took a total of 3 pairs of socks, two thin and one thicker pair made of merino wool. So I washed something most nights.
When very cold I put nearly all of it on, including some lightweight ski gloves (I had been warned to allow for sub-zero temperatures in the mountains). This was OK for 1°C and I could have gone down to about -10°C by adding the quilted jacket, rain trousers, breathable rain jacket and shoe covers.
When hot, just cycling shorts, a long-sleeve merino top and thin socks in my old-fashioned leather cycling shoes. For wearing all day, merino worked better for me than synthetic, as it was still reasonably comfortable when soaked in sweat, either from the heat or from condensation inside (breathable) raingear during heavy rain.
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One suggestion intended only to be helpful: If you check out the Forum's Cycle Tours board...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?board=26.0
...you'll often see descriptions and photos of the kit forum members use for their tours.
Best,
Dan.
Looks like I should have posted this thread in there - cheers
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Looks like I should have posted this thread in there - cheers
No worries. Posts there tend to be specific to the trips people take while this thread is more general (Non-Thorn Related).
All good. :)
Best, Dan.
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Distance depends on what you want to visit or observe, the weight of kit carried, and on your physical condition.
And the time available.
In 2011 I had specific sites I wanted to visit in northern Spain and north-west Portugal, and a maximum of 30 days off work to do the trip. I shortened the end of my trip by 3 days to get home quicker because my wife had been invalided home from her own one-month trip to Peru, so I did longer distances than originally planned during the last few days.