Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Lighting and Electronics => Topic started by: ourclarioncall on May 22, 2022, 01:53:38 pm
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I’m not sure how I feel about using front flashing lights
I had a small one on last night and while on the road thought that this is exactly what I need to catch drivers attention from a distance before they get close , but I guess a good front headlamp would do the trick too, but a combo would be better. I was on narrow back roads.
It wasn’t very dark at this point
But later on while on a dark disused railway line I found the flasher a bit …. Hmm…. Don’t know if irritating is the right word . Distracting ? Annoying ? Not sure. It was the only light I had so didn’t have another lamp to blend in with the flasher . Maybe I would not have noticed it so bad . But I’m just wondering if on a long tour I would get tired of the flashing , even if it was subtle .
I was just using a cheap light from Halfords so maybe some of the higher end lights have less glare next to you and protect the flash out further away.
I put the light in different places but was still aware of the bright glare coming from it .
Any thoughts and experiences with this ?
I’m also wondering how good or bad this might be for your eyes to see the repetition of light 🤔
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If you want to see, put on a steady light beam. A blinkie is all about being seen, but not much help to see where you are going.
Think of a police car. They don't use the flashing blue lights to find their way, but they use steady headlights for that. The flashing lights help other road users spot them early to take appropriate action.
For a rear light blinking lights have a purpose to help you bee seen. You might want to employ such thoughts to front or even spoke lights. But a decent bright steady front light is a must to help you see where you are going.
Blinkies, spoke reflectors, reflective clothing etc help others see you and are a sensible investment. But a headlight is all about seeing the road ahead so you don't come a cropper hitting a pothole, navigating a missing drain cover or just avoiding a coven of teenage goths hanging out on an unlit street while trying to get at one with the shadows.
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If you want to see, put on a steady light beam. A blinkie is all about being seen, but not much help to see where you are going.
Think of a police car. They don't use the flashing blue lights to find their way, but they use steady headlights for that. The flashing lights help other road users spot them early to take appropriate action.
For a rear light blinking lights have a purpose to help you bee seen. You might want to employ such thoughts to front or even spoke lights. But a decent bright steady front light is a must to help you see where you are going.
Blinkies, spoke reflectors, reflective clothing etc help others see you and are a sensible investment. But a headlight is all about seeing the road ahead so you don't come a cropper hitting a pothole, navigating a missing drain cover or just avoiding a coven of teenage goths hanging out on an unlit street while trying to get at one with the shadows.
Yes, understood
Sorry I never explained that too well
Basically , even while daylight but getting dark I found the blinking light a bit distracting . While on road . But i knew it would be good for getting cars attention. So there’s a bit of a dilemma
So I’m wondering if a better blinking light or a blinking light in combination with a good headlight will diminish or remove the distraction from the blinking
I have a rear light and rear blinking light but no front headlight yet
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Having a blinking light you can switch on/off depending on the circumstances is never a bad idea. I'm prone to migraine so try to avoid flickering and flashing which can set me off under prolonged exposure.
But you have asked about hub dynamos. Get yourself a hub dynamo and a bright LED front light and you will outshine most regular battery headlamps and be able to ride 24/7 with lights on. Motorcycle riders have long been encouraged to ride with lights on to draw attention to themselves even by day. My wife says she spots me from way off with my LED dynamo light even before she sees it is me. As long as other car drivers spot me early enough too, I know it is worth having to see with and to be seen by.
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I used to commute through a large university campus, saw every kind of mistake that students on bikes can make. And one of those is really bright white flashing lights in the dark that blind car drivers. Even if dim or daytime lighting, your eyes can't estimate distance at all with a flasher.
I use flashing taillight that is bright by historical standards but not by the latest standards that try to achieve aircraft landing light status. But I also wear high visibility clothing. In daytime the flasher can get their attention while it does not blind them, the high visibility clothing is something that they can focus on.
Up front, I only use continuous, not flashing lights.
But I see lots of alternate opinions out on the roads and trails.
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A flashing light is good in the day time as it's more visible to others than a steady light (unless very bright) but once darkness arrives then a steady light both helps you see your way and is more visible to others than it would be in the day time. Better LED lights (I use the rechargeable ones) offer both modes (and sometimes different flash options such as flicker and pulse) and often different levels of brightness. Be aware, however, that a steady bright light will drain the battery much faster than a flashing light.
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I have a Cygolite (USB rechargeable) headlamp which I use for for touring, and occasionally in the city. It has three steady modes: bright, medium, and low; and a flashing mode.
I use the latter most of the time, and almost exclusively in daylight -- conspicuity helps to keep me safe. This flash is clearly visible from 400-500 metres away. (I learned this on a tour a few years ago.) On tour, I use it whenever I'm on roads with any amount of traffic.
Rarely do I ride at night on tour, or even in the city. When I do, I use the bright or medium steady light if there are no street lights, and the flashing mode when the road is well-lit.
I recharge the Cygolite as needed: on tour, about every 3 or 4 days from an Anker cache battery (recharged each day by my SON 28 dynahub/Sinewave charger setup). Recharging usually takes a few hours in the evening.
At home (in the city), I recharge the Cygolite from the mains, but I do so very rarely. (I have a standard AA-batt Knog headlight for my city city bike, but again, I don't ride much at night.)
My Cygolite is about 12 years old now. I think it has about 200 lumens; current models have 400 - 800. Cost me about $100, but it's been an excellent purchase. Only problem was that the translucent semi-soft plastic On/Off switch wore through a couple of years ago, but I fixed that with superglue.
Depending on how you use your bike, you could use both an LED light powered by the dynahub for nighttime use, and a flashing light (such as the Cygolite) for daytime use. If you did that on tour, you'd obviously need to recharge.
On balance, seems to me that the steady hub/LED light may be your best option. The only "but" I'd register is that a single steady light in daytime seems less effective than a flashing light in catching other road users' attention.
(For about a decade I rode a BMW airhead which had a triangular combination of a good headlight, plus two smaller LEDs mounted on the crash bars just in front of the cylinders. That worked exceptionally well, both for conspicuity and for my nighttime vision. Not really an option for cyclists.)
Hope that's useful -- good luck, and let us know how it works out.
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I have a tiny button battery flashing light on my helmet, I can't remember where it came from but it was only a couple of quid, I bought it after being impressed how noticeable it was when someone else in the group had one. Switched to steady, it's just about bright enough to read a map, but not really bright enough for fixing a puncture, or putting the tent up in the dark, though better than nothing. It's of no use as a light for seeing where you're cycling. A battery lasts a year or so.
For seeing where I'm going, for a dark ride of some distance, I use two lights - a STVZO light (That's the German standard for lights that don't dazzle other users), either dynamo or battery, plus a NiteRider Lumina which is great fun for turning night into day when there's no one else around to be blinded.
<Rant start> Anti-social lighting is a bit of a bug bear for me, I'm sick of cyclists who think it's acceptable to have an unshaped beam, flashing or steady. It's bad enough for a car coming the other way, for a bike the time exposed can rob you of your night vision for minutes and is simply dangerous <Rant over>
EDIT - just looked at my flasher, it's this one
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/sl-100-front-led-battery-powered-bike-light/_/R-p-15364?mc=8322807&c=BLACK
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This thread started only on front light but most of us have bene covering front and rear, the rear is the more important light.
On a different forum I described how I installed my dyno powered lights on my rando bike. I assume by now you have figured out that dyno powered lights do not have a flash mode. (I have been told there are some that do but I have not seen them.) I also have a battery powered flasher on that bike that I use in daytime.
https://www.bikeforums.net/electronics-lighting-gadgets/1228845-wiring-up-dyno-powered-lighting-system-usb-charger.html
Touring, if I travel somewhere with my Nomad Mk II when it is packed in the S&S case, I no longer bother to install dyno powered lights on it because (1) it is a hassle to install and later remove for packing an S&S bike and (2) I almost never used the lights when touring. So, then I only use battery powered lights. I described at this thread what I use for bike tours with that bike for all my electrics.
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13696.0
Right now I do have dyno powered lights on my Nomad Mk II, but I have no travel plans and occasionally ride it at night. My installation is temporary, I can remove the lights in only a few minutes.
If you have not figured this out yet, with dyno powered lights, you can install a front only or you can install both front and back. But not a rear only, most of the taillights lack the overvoltage protection needed. You plug the taillight wires into the headlamp, the headlamp has that overvoltage protection. Your headlamp on and off switch operates both lights.
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My installation is temporary, I can remove the lights in only a few minutes.
I've do the same for my folder, which is my travel bike, for similar reasons. I took the light with me on the last tour, one wing nut to mount it and a couple of reusable zip ties for the cable, but I didn't have any need for it so might leave it at home and take a battery light next time.
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I often take note of how visible or not cyclists are on the road and I think I was most impressed by a guys flashing front white light during the daytime. Really caught your attention from a distance
Regular hiviz vest is pretty good too
I thought about getting white panniers and a white hiviz vest . I noticed that you really don’t get pure white things out in nature . It really stands out. Or black bike and clothes with white panniers and yellow hiviz for a bit of contrast of colours. That and a good flashing lights Should cover a lot of bases for daytime riding .
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With the klite system I’m considering I would be able I think to switch on and off with a switch a front dynamo lamp and attached rear light . And on another switch front and rear flashing leds. Wouldn’t be very convenient to switch the flashers on during the day and either the dynamos or dynamos plus flashers at night . Or maybe just have them all on during the day.
It depends where your riding i suppose
Although I want a battery-less no fuss system , good battery lights could be good for certain things and could be topped up from the klite usb charger. So less fuss . Don’t need to take lights off the bike and charge them somewhere at home.
One thing I’m wondering about front dynamo lamp is potential flickering and dulling of the light. Maybe I’d like the consistency of a battery light 🤔
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A really clean white object on a sunny day is noticeable. Not so much on an overcast day.
Black, not so much.
The white flashing light you saw on the other side of the road coming towards you, that was on the other side of the road. Does it matter if it was noticeable?
If you are pedaling up a hill at 5 km/hour, your dyno powered headlamp will flicker and be dim, but at 5 km/hour it is still light enough to see where you are going.
Everybody seems to have completely forgotten what lights were like a decade and a half ago, if that bike you bought with the sidewall generator has an incandescent lamp on it, people used to ride vast distances with a light like that. Now I occasionally hear of people complaining that they want a stronger headlight because their headlight is only 1000 lumens and they think it is too dark at bicycling speeds, but I used to drive highway speeds on my Triumph motorcycle with an H4 headlamp at around 1500 lumens.
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I do not like flashing front lights at all. This is because they are rarely tilted towards the ground and the resulting flashes to my eyes are dazzling and uncomfortable.
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This is because they are rarely tilted towards the ground and the resulting flashes to my eyes are dazzling and uncomfortable
This can be a problem, Ian, for sure. (See also PH's "rant" above.) That said, steady lights can be bothersome too. Too many cyclists and motorists seem not to care how their headlights affect other road users. (Suppressed rant here about high-end German sedans running high beams in the city at night.)
My Cygolite is tilted downward and to the right -- it swivels through 30 degrees or so.
Cheers,
John
PS: Tracked down those sausage rolls at the 5B2F bakehouse in Southport, just a couple of kms from our son's place. The bakehouse is well known & well patronized. It was quite busy when I visited mid-morning. One sausage roll would've done for both my wife & myself, so we enjoyed a couple of lunches from the two I bought. ;) They sparked a conversation about "pie" cultures -- the size of the 5B2F items brought back memories of pies & sausage rolls from the light-industrial areas of Lusaka, Zambia, and here and there in South Africa.
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LED lamps have a MTBF in the region of 50,000 hours. You have to be real cheap to switch them off in daylight. Good ones, like the CYO, also work better as daylight warning lamps than the limp daylight flickers BUMM fit to some of their lamps as an extra "feature". It is true that I buy my lamps with the light sensor switch which can switch them on and off automatically in inadequate visibility/bright sunshine, but that's not because I intend using the facility but because so many of them are sold that their street price is less than the lesser specced BUMM lamps. I run my lamps all the time, whenever the bike moves.
Even if your lamps are set up with courtesy to other road users in mind, a cyclist can just tilt his bike a little or weave to sweep a healthy dose of lumens through the eyes of a driver approaching stupidly fast on a narrow way.
I actually welcome an oncoming driver on a country road flashing his lamps onto high and down again to identify me as cyclist. It shows that he's alert and he knows I'm there.
I take George's point that we shouldn't forget that adequate (not good) bicycle lamps arrived only a decade or so ago, with BUMM's Cyo; before that bicycle lamps not intended for offroad use were the poor relatives of Lucas, Prince of Darkness. I rate the Cyo at just about the level of usefulness of the lamps on a VW Beetle from the 6V era.
SUV drivers are people too. If I say it often enough, perhaps someday I'll convince myself.
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SUV drivers are people too. If I say it often enough, perhaps someday I'll convince myself.
I dunno, Andre -- you're starting to sound dangerously fair-minded and even-tempered... ;)
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SUV drivers are people too. If I say it often enough, perhaps someday I'll convince myself.
I dunno, Andre -- you're starting to sound dangerously fair-minded and even-tempered... ;)
Who knows, St Peter might arrive to open the gate in an SUV rather than on a bicycle.
It’s like the schoolboy joke:
Priest to old roue on his deathbed: “Do you with your last breath repudiate the Devil and all his Works?”
Old roue on his deathbed: “Now is not the time to make new enemies.”
On reading this thread again, I remembered why I keep the front flashing lamp turned downwards so that the lens is nearly parallel with the road, whereas the flashing rear lamp is aimed the same way as the steady rear lamp. It is so the blinkie (which doesn’t even begin to describe the strength of my flashing front lamp) reflect enough light, and then some, from the road to give drivers arriving from any direction a full-height, 360 degree bicycle and rider signature, while a flashing red light of sensible strength is something I’m happy for drivers to see and, in case the front blinkie hasn’t been switched on or has a flat battery, come to the conclusion it could be a large vehicle with one broken rear lamp. (We can discuss the irrationality of cyclists’ fear of being rammed from behind, which hardly ever happens, another day.)
In years gone by, when I lived above the surgery on a wide main road, there was was traffic circle near my house and when I operated a narrow-angle blinkie pointing forward, there were often pointed imprecations hurled by me through open sunroofs at drivers coming in from the side road who, despite four lamps on my bike, had somehow missed seeing me. After I bought a stronger blinkie still, guaranteed to freeze a deer in its tracks 250 yards out, and decided it was just too antisocial no bugger that strike from antisocial dangerous to my own skin to point it forward, I tried the downwards mounting and never had another near-miss at that roundabout at night, nor at another similar roundabout at the other end of town which we often passed in the dusk returning from autumn or winter rides. (For those of you who are into bicycle politics, some cycling wag — remember, if one finger points at me, four point at you — put up a cross at that crossroads with a name on it: John Forester, he of Vehicular Cycling notoriety.)