Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: KDean on May 03, 2022, 04:10:26 pm
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As I put new handle bars on my Nomad Mrk2 I had to fit longer gear change cables for the Rohloff . One of the cables had one strand that had unwound / fraid about half way along & bunched up , I cut it away as it was only one strand & carried on . Everything is working fine but It's playing on my mind . Would you replace the cable again?
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I have plenty of spares on the shelf in storage, thus I would have.
It is unclear to me if you cut off that one strand at the head, or mid way.
There have been times that I tried to avoid changing one, but I found that if I left one strand cut part way, I ran the risk that the one strand would be trouble later, it often was. I think it best to cut off that one broken strand at the head so part of it cannot unwrap inside the outer housing, creating a snag.
Expendables, like cables and chains, cassettes, Rohloff sprocket, brake pads, Rohloff oil, I keep spares on the shelf. I try to stock up only when on a good price but occasionally have to pay full price.
I usually wrap cables with tape before I cut them, that reduces chance that I will end up with a squished mess. Dan has taught me to dip the ends of cables in Superglue to glue the strands together. I do not know how long you have to let the cable sit before touching it to anything after teh Superglue application, I have used 15 min for the glue to harden which might be much longer than necessary.
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I’m not sure where the cable is frayed, but if it is inside the outer cable there is always the risk that eventually it opens more and blocks clean gear changing.
I changed my outer cables to Jagwire so I can use standard Shimano inner cables. If I get a cable issue I alway have a stock of 6-8 gear and 6-8 brake cables. Not all bike stores stock the slightly narrower Rohloff cables, so it means I don’t need extra cable for main shifter lines.
Even so, it is not a terribly difficult job to replace the cable. I would order a spare if you don’t already have one, and just keep an eye on the frayed cable for any shifting problems. Once you get the first problem then replace with the spare cable you have on hand.
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I changed my outer cables to Jagwire so I can use standard Shimano inner cables. If I get a cable issue I alway have a stock of 6-8 gear and 6-8 brake cables. Not all bike stores stock the slightly narrower Rohloff cables, so it means I don’t need extra cable for main shifter lines.
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I was unaware that Rohloff cables were thinner.
I have no clue what I used for outer housing, but I have been using Shimano or Campy cables on my Rohloff bike. I do not think that my Rohloff came with outer housing, but I know that I had Rohloff inner cables initially. I suspect I used plain old brake cable outer housing.
A few years ago I made a change in shifter location, needed longer inner cables, pretty sure I used Shimano but I might have used Campy.
Some years ago I was ordering supplies on-line and someone had a sale on Campy shifter cables so I have a LOT of those. They are not Campy brand, but have Campy heads that are slightly smaller.
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I changed my outer cables to Jagwire so I can use standard Shimano inner cables. If I get a cable issue I alway have a stock of 6-8 gear and 6-8 brake cables. Not all bike stores stock the slightly narrower Rohloff cables, so it means I don’t need extra cable for main shifter lines.
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I was unaware that Rohloff cables were thinner.
I'm glad it wasn't just me who didn't understand that! I thought that the nipple on some cables was a better fit in the shifter than others, otherwise they were standard, but I've only used either the genuine Rohloff or the Transfil/Sram ones that SJS recommend. I though the only non standard cable was the one into the hub on an internal shift, I'm not sure, I only changed that once and I bought the kit. For the outer, I've been using Shimano brake cable, I bought a workshop roll before I'd bought my first Rohloff 20+ years ago, it's likely to outlast me, though I've stopped giving lengths of it away. It was a bargain, less than half price, maybe because it's grey, which might have been unfashionable at the time, though several people like it now - That either makes me a trendsetter or a skinflint...
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As I put new handle bars on my Nomad Mrk2 I had to fit longer gear change cables for the Rohloff . One of the cables had one strand that had unwound / fraid about half way along & bunched up , I cut it away as it was only one strand & carried on . Everything is working fine but It's playing on my mind . Would you replace the cable again?
I'd be surprised if that didn't as some point unwind and cause issues, though it's unlikely to become unusable without warning. I wouldn't attempt to predict whether that'll be in tens of miles or thousands. I'd probably change it, or at least have a cable in stock ready to do so. Though in part it depends on the bike's use, I'd be less bothered if I was using it on the commute than I would be touring.
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Thanks for all the replies , I was going to order a replacement cable but it looks like SJS have been out of stock for some time .
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Thanks for all the replies , I was going to order a replacement cable but it looks like SJS have been out of stock for some time .
Are we all talking about the same cables? These seem to be in stock:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/rohloff-shifter-inner-cables-18-m-x-2-for-rohloff-speedhub-50014-8265/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/transfil-rohloff-sram-stainless-steel-11-mm-gear-wire/
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Thanks for all the replies , I was going to order a replacement cable but it looks like SJS have been out of stock for some time .
If you only need the inner cables, I would just use Shimano compatible cables of any brand, preferably stainless and not galvanized.
Cutting those cables requires some care to avoid squishing the cable. I made this note in a previous post:
I usually wrap cables with tape before I cut them, that reduces chance that I will end up with a squished mess. Dan has taught me to dip the ends of cables in Superglue to glue the strands together. I do not know how long you have to let the cable sit before touching it to anything after teh Superglue application, I have used 15 min for the glue to harden which might be much longer than necessary.
You might want to measure the exact length of the cable, and measure the amount you cut off, calculate how long your cable is after cutting and keeping that number somewhere for future reference. I measured mine the last time I installed new cables, I was careful cut both to teh same length and have a spare cut to that length to carry on tours.
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Thanks for all the replies , I was going to order a replacement cable but it looks like SJS have been out of stock for some time .
If you only need the inner cables, I would just use Shimano compatible cables of any brand, preferably stainless and not galvanized.
I've just copied this from the facebook Rohloff Group
Please advance me about shift cables that works with Rhohoff. I bought Shimano standard, but apparently this cable's head is too wide, diameter 5 mm, and it gets stuck in 8th gear! Seems like Rohloff original is 4 mm wide.
Although as I said upthread I've only used the genuine Rohloff ones, or those Transfill ones recommended by SJS, it's always been my impression that not all cables are suitable. That's not to question anyone's experience, but it may be possible there's an element of luck, and if so it'll be possible to eliminate that by buying known suitable cables.
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Thanks for all the replies , I was going to order a replacement cable but it looks like SJS have been out of stock for some time .
If you only need the inner cables, I would just use Shimano compatible cables of any brand, preferably stainless and not galvanized.
I've just copied this from the facebook Rohloff Group
Please advance me about shift cables that works with Rhohoff. I bought Shimano standard, but apparently this cable's head is too wide, diameter 5 mm, and it gets stuck in 8th gear! Seems like Rohloff original is 4 mm wide.
Although as I said upthread I've only used the genuine Rohloff ones, or those Transfill ones recommended by SJS, it's always been my impression that not all cables are suitable. That's not to question anyone's experience, but it may be possible there's an element of luck, and if so it'll be possible to eliminate that by buying known suitable cables.
I am 90 percent confident that I used Shimano compatible shifter cables on my Rohloff. But, there is a 10 percent chance that I used Campy compatible instead, Campy have smaller heads.
I just calipered three of my universal cables which I assume means Shimano compatible, all three had heads of 4.3mm diameter. And calipered three Jagwire brand Campy compatible cable heads at 3.8mm.
My Rohloff shifter is the round one, after the triangular one and before the wave one.
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Hmm. I have 3 rohloffs and I have never replaced a cable.
Do the shimano cables work okay?
I like the tip about wrapping in tape and using glue, would gorilla glue work? Epoxy?
Maybe I should try it.
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Hmm. I have 3 rohloffs and I have never replaced a cable.
Do the shimano cables work okay?
I like the tip about wrapping in tape and using glue, would gorilla glue work? Epoxy?
Maybe I should try it.
If you plan to change a cable and have a Shimano compatible one, apparently someone on FB said the head is too big. But I think that is what I have done. If you are going to change cables and have such a cable, you can certainly see if the head fits well in the shifter or not. I am not going to disassemble my shifter just to caliper the size of the holes that the heads fit in. I can assure you that I did NOT buy any Rohloff cables.
I used Superglue because Dan suggested it. I have no opinion on other glues. I bought a bunch of individual use tubes for minimal cost that have a tiny amount, perfect for single use.
Cutting cables, you need a good cutter to avoid mashing the cable that you are cutting. I think mine is a Sram. And as I previously noted, wrap tape around it before cutting helps keep the cable round without flattening it too much.
I moved my shifter to a different location in summer 2016, I needed longer cables so I changed both cables at that time. I keep several spare cables along with chains, cassettes, etc., as spares on the shelf for all my expendables. But I only have Shimano and Campy compatible shift cables. My only Rohloff spares are a few spare hub drain plug screws, sprockets and oils.
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would gorilla glue work? Epoxy?
The thing about super glue is it soaks in between the cable's strands and adds virtually nothing to the outside diameter. I tried Gorilla Glue once and had to recut the cable as it added too much bulk. There's not a lot of room to work with when inserting cable ends to the little pulley wheel in the EX shift-box.
There's several types of cyanoacrylate-based super glue. I prefer beta-cyanoacrylate as it will bond securely through light contamination and I've found even new cables that have been degreased with brake cleaner can still carry a little of the lubrication from the forming dies -- it gets between the strands when they are wound. You can quickly check for this contamination by drawing a fresh cable between our fingers. If it leaves a dark mark in your fingers, that's die oil. Regular super glue can/has come loose for me on occasion for this reason -- it doesn't fully bond through oil traces. If glue is not specifically labeled "beta-cyanoacrylate", check the packaging to see if it is also recommended for leather, rubber, and wood. If so, it is "undeclared" beta. ;)
EDIT/Addendum 1: A file can reduce the outer diameter of lead cable ends. I did it back in the day to adapt larger ends for use with Simplex shifters. Being soft, the lead comes off quickly and with little effort. We're only talking tenths of a millimeter in most cases. I prefer my Niehoff automotive ignition points file (any else remember points even though they are now er, "pointless" on modern cars?).
Addendum 2: My favorite cable cutter of all time is my prized SunTour, which must be close to 40 years old by now. It is easily resharpened and uses two v-shaped jaws so it doesn't flatten the cable. For housing, I prefer my Felco cutters, also with dual v-jaws and can also be resharpened; it will even cut SIS indexed housing while keeping the strands intact. Both cut cleanly and won't squish or spread even unglued cables.
Best,
Dan.
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Do the shimano cables work okay?
I don't know the answer to that, though there's plenty of examples of people suggesting not all cables are as good as others.
Ask yourself - If all cables are equal, why do SJS specifically label one as a suitable Rohloff cable?
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... there's plenty of examples of people suggesting not all cables are as good as others.
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There are better cables and poorer cables.
The discussion of will a non-Rohloff cable work, that is a fit question, in this thread it is a diameter of cable head question.
For indexed derailleur shifters, minimizing friction is quite important for precise shifting when the indexing is in the shifter, less important for a Rohloff.
And cable composition. Last year I had a shifter fail on one of my touring bikes, cable was four years old. I was quite sure that I only bought stainless cables, but looking at the cable that failed, I think a galvanized cable snuck into my box of spares. That cable that failed looked like corrosion caused it. Two photos. A cable in bar end shifters is easily exposed to sweat in your hands that can cause corrosion.
And as Dan noted, if the head is too big, you can make it smaller. On my rando bike I have a vintage Huret friction downtube shifter for the front derailleur. That shifter uses a cable that has a head shaped quite different from current common cable heads. With a file I was able to quickly re-shape a modern cable head to fit in the Huret shifter.
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... there's plenty of examples of people suggesting not all cables are as good as others.
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There are better cables and poorer cables.
The discussion of will a non-Rohloff cable work, that is a fit question, in this thread it is a diameter of cable head question.
What was the question...
I've just looked in the "living with a Rohloff" booklet, it says
The EX box uses conventional cables, found in every bike
shop in the world - 1.1mm gear inner cable and conventional
(brake) outer casing.
I'm going to take that as the definitive answer, you can use any cable.
But then the question remains why SJS/Thorn recommend a particular one when they stock dozens. I don't know the answer to that, I'm going to assume there's a reason and given that it's just as easy for me to get a recommended one as one that isn't I'm going to stick to doing just that.
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I've just copied this from the facebook Rohloff Group
Please advance me about shift cables that works with Rhohoff. I bought Shimano standard, but apparently this cable's head is too wide, diameter 5 mm, and it gets stuck in 8th gear! Seems like Rohloff original is 4 mm wide.
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You identified one of the many reasons I never got a Facebook account.
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I've just looked in the "living with a Rohloff" booklet, it says
The EX box uses conventional cables, found in every bike
shop in the world - 1.1mm gear inner cable and conventional
(brake) outer casing.
I'm going to take that as the definitive answer, you can use any cable.
...
Thank you for posting.
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would gorilla glue work? Epoxy?
The thing about super glue is it soaks in between the cable's strands and adds virtually nothing to the outside diameter. I tried Gorilla Glue once and had to recut the cable as it added too much bulk. There's not a lot of room to work with when inserting cable ends to the little pulley wheel in the EX shift-box.
There's several types of cyanoacrylate-based super glue. I prefer beta-cyanoacrylate as it will bond securely through light contamination and I've found even new cables that have been degreased with brake cleaner can still carry a little of the lubrication from the forming dies -- it gets between the strands when they are wound. You can quickly check for this contamination by drawing a fresh cable between our fingers. If it leaves a dark mark in your fingers, that's die oil. Regular super glue can/has come loose for me on occasion for this reason -- it doesn't fully bond through oil traces. If glue is not specifically labeled "beta-cyanoacrylate", check the packaging to see if it is also recommended for leather, rubber, and wood. If so, it is "undeclared" beta. ;)
EDIT/Addendum 1: A file can reduce the outer diameter of lead cable ends. I did it back in the day to adapt larger ends for use with Simplex shifters. Being soft, the lead comes off quickly and with little effort. We're only talking tenths of a millimeter in most cases. I prefer my Niehoff automotive ignition points file (any else remember points even though they are now er, "pointless" on modern cars?).
Addendum 2: My favorite cable cutter of all time is my prized SunTour, which must be close to 40 years old by now. It is easily resharpened and uses two v-shaped jaws so it doesn't flatten the cable. For housing, I prefer my Felco cutters, also with dual v-jaws and can also be resharpened; it will even cut SIS indexed housing while keeping the strands intact. Both cut cleanly and won't squish or spread even unglued cables.
Best,
Dan.
So much good, interesting, esoteric information here, thanks everybody.
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Buy the Park Tools cable cutter and you will have perfectly cut cables for evermore. Job done.