Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: ourclarioncall on April 16, 2022, 02:19:35 pm
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Thinking of buying a cheaper Thorn to have something to tide this year . I’m still looking at getting a Mk3 at some point but this could potentially do me for the moment
I know nothing much about mk1’s
I’m just looking for a bike that fits me okay. I’m about 6 foot . I would prefer to have straight bars and a more upright posture but at this price I wouldn’t be too fussy
What are the pros and cons of these models ? Anything I should be aware of ? I have found 3 available. Two of them should fit me, the other one with beige big apple tyres? I don’t know but there is specs in his description which don’t make much sense to me. I did try and hunt online for a mk1 pdf brochure but couldn’t find one that I was looking for
Thanks
1.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265637814343?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4J8Gel4nRV6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=d0z8oqhvska&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
2.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175200939216?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zBu3G64gRjW&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=d0z8oqhvska&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
3.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/985913332029496/
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I got a reply
The second one only has the frame number under the bottom bracket, however, the down tube measures 20” from the centre of the bottom bracket to the seat post entry point.
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The Nomad Mk I was a Rohloff version, the two Ebay links you posted are derailleur bikes, they pre-date the Mk I designation. I do not do Facebook, did not try that one.
I do not know much about the early Thorn Nomads, can't help on that.
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Ah right , so just because it’s called a Nomad, doesn’t mean it’s a Mk1.
I went on a family holiday and was at a caravan /camping place and in came some cyclist and one was riding a black Thorn bike and I got really excited as it’s the first time I’ve seen one in real life and I later approached the owner and I thought it was a Sherpa because it was derailleur and he said no it’s a nomad , so I got a shock. Think he said it was about 20 years old.
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I bought my Sherpa frame used in 2010, that was welded in Asia. So I do not have a lot of knowledge on the early Thorns that pre-date that. But it is my understanding that the early derailleur Nomads were brazed with filet brazing in the UK. Then as the cost of labor went up and import costs went down, Thorn instead ordered frames welded from Asia. So, I think that a early derailleur Nomad would mean that it was brazed in the UK.
And everything I just said could be completely wrong.
This website has hundreds of photos of touring bikes, but most of the photos are over a decade old, the person that updates the site has not updated it in years. If you pull up the page and do a word search for Thorn, you will find early ones. My computer counts 21 hits for the word Thorn.
https://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/fullyloaded
Derailleur version, I think the frame made in UK. Note the quill type stem and the cables come out of the top of the brake levers, this is at least a few decades old.
https://pbase.com/canyonlands/image/164945475
At that website, this looks like a Mk I. Lacks the extra reinforcing at the downtube and headtube. But is a Rohloff model with S&S couplings.
https://pbase.com/canyonlands/image/158909822
Since they have not added bikes to this site for several years, I think you won't find a Mk II version there. Almost all the bikes on that site are rim brake, discs were starting to displace rim brake bikes about a decade ago.
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My MK1 Nomad was a complete joy to ride. In comparison to my MK2 rohloff Nomad it felt light, sprightly and very responsive. I only sold it to help pay for my MK2. The MK2 is a much more robust, heavy-duty bike that feels very comfortable under load but also no slouch unladen. I still get an exhilarating buzz when riding down hill like a crackpot! Photos available on request
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How would I find out how much weight these bikes can carry ? Wondering if I’m too heavy as these frames look a lot thinner/weaker than the nomad mk2 for example
I’m kind of interested in the third one on Facebook marketplace. I think it might be fillet brazed and 725 frame which I understand to be heat treated and strong. But maybe the pieces are of thinner dimensions so it balances out with other thorn nomads made of 531 like the one on eBay
Could i easily convert this to straight bar if I wanted to ?
This was some rust and it looks as if the paint had been sanded back to bare steel and rust preventer has been applied. I’m just wondering if there is more rust elsewhere inside or outside of the frame. There is another less rusty option on eBay but that’s the 531 frame
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I think the other one on eBay is too small for me, it’s also fillet brazed and 725 like the one on Facebook marketplace
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Mickeg
Thanks 👍
The one I’m looking at on Facebook looks like it has 7 numbers then underneath KS which I’m thinking is Kevin Sayles initials who haha built frames in uk so I read
It’s a bit on the rusty side but think would fit me . It also has the same type of fork as the nomad mk2. The heavy duty looking one with the double bit.
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Could i easily convert this to straight bar if I wanted to ?
Yes, but you may need to change the stem to get your most comfortable handlebar height and saddle to handlebar distance and possibly acommodate a different clamp diameter. While Thorn usually make two lengths of frame (shorter for drops, longer for straight bars) a longer stem can adequately compensate for a shorter frame. I would check if the saddle to handlebar clamp distance is close to what you find is good on a bike with straight bars.
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They all look nice enough bikes, but don't get carried away, if it's not exactly what you want you'll need to be careful to cost the conversion, bars, stem, shifters, brake levers, maybe brakes, it isn't complicated stuff and as John says a change of stem will compensate fore the shorter TT, though less so if you're already near the upper limit for that size.
I understand if someone needed an expedition ready touring bike on a budget, then spending £600 on a used Nomad would make sense. If that isn't your need, it looks like a lot of money for an old bike.
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The best bike is the bike that fits. Looking at a internet posting for a used bike, then planning changes you would make to that bike when you have not seen it yet, you are rolling the dice on whether or not it would fit you well after you have made modifications.
I have built up several bikes from the frames that I had bought, but I had the advantage of starting with a bike that fit me well. So, I could apply measurements from one that fit, see how those dimensions varied from the frames that I was looking at and make a pretty good estimate on whether or not I could make the potential purchases fit well. In my case, I was making those estimates based on using the same kinds of handlebars on the bikes that I built up as I had on the bike that I already knew fit me well.
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I understand if someone needed an expedition ready touring bike on a budget, then spending £600 on a used Nomad would make sense. If that isn't your need, it looks like a lot of money for an old bike.
<nods> Not meaning to disparage these bikes in any way (I know nothing about their provenance and condition), in general it is possible to sink a lot of money into making an old bike reliable for long touring/expedition use, where reliability is essential. If you can do the work yourself -- or are willing to borrow/buy the tools to do so -- you can save money and it can make for a great learning experience, the benefit being self-sufficiency in case a problem crops up while touring.
Depending on the price/condition of any used bike, I'd figure tools and possible replacement component costs atop the asking price. Sometimes 25-50% is not unusual to splash out to achieve a really reliable used bike that suits your needs. I'm thinking a possible new cassette and chain, some new brake pads, the cost of handlebars, brake levers and grips if you wish to do a conversion. Add to that personalized items like mudguards, your favorite saddle and pedals, a bell, computer and lights and it all adds up.
Several years ago I did something like this, taking a 1987-vintage steel road frame in super-good shape and updating it with shopworn but new Shimano 105 9-sp components (discounted) and a brand-new set of aero road wheels (closeout priced). I had much on-hand, but to do the same on a typical used bike would have seen costs rise close to a pre-assembled bike in nearly new condition.
Sometimes a more expensive bike can be cheaper if it puts you closer to your goals as-is.
Best,
Dan.
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You might strike lucky and buy a used Nomad from a knowledgable seller who has taken care of it. I was twice lucky in that regard or perhaps a little discerning. Perhaps it’s not unreasonable to think that people look after premium-quality bikes better than they do cheaper, high street products. I wouldn’t put money on that though. Personally. If it looks uncared for and has had a seemingly rough life I’d walk away. As Dan says the costs of a refurbishment can be simply uneconomic.
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Several years ago a neighbor had a yard sale to get rid of stuff before he moved. He had a couple bikes in the back yard. He said when his kids moved out he was tired of taking care of their stuff, so he left the bikes where they had left them. Not sure how many years had passed but a two inch (~~5cm) diameter tree had grown up through the frame of one of them, so it has been at least a decade that they sat outside.
I went home and did an internet search on one of them. This one.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1994/pages/36.htm
Went back, handed him the $5 that he asked for it. He got out an electric saw and cut down the tree so the bike could be removed from the tree trunk. And I wheeled it home. (First photo.)
All the rubber and plastic had to be discarded and replaced, even rim strips. Needed new chain, some new cables, new bottom bracket, new pedals, front shifter (used a friction thumb shifter for a while). Re-grease everything I could. It took two days of off and on work to get the bottom bracket out. Added Frame Saver to the frame to prevent further frame rusting.
And it turned into a great errand bike. (Second photo.) For the past decade I had made most of my grocery store trips in summer on that bike.
For the next decade I continued to store it outside, it gets no use in winter. (Third photo.)
I think I put about $50 USD into it. I got rid of a lot of the stuff that filled up my garage, so now I store that bike indoors.
That said, I could easily have found a frame with rust perforations, so it is a roll of the dice when you buy something that has been neglected. I got lucky.
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Thanks you very much chaps
Really appreciate the info and you’ve given me food for thought
There is also this one……. It’s about 15 years old , but hasn’t been used for 10 years. There is some rust around the Rohloff and I don’t know how good or bad it would be for a rohloff to be sitting unused for a decade ? Any thoughts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185382713017?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=lvLKz_HEQMO&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=d0z8oqhvska&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
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If you can change through all 14 gears on the Rohloff hub then it's very likely OK. It's more likely that the shifter and/or cables will have suffered from lack of use than the hub itself where a thin layer of oil should have stayed on the surface of all the parts. I bought my first Rohloff bike brand new in 2019 but the hub was made in 2013. Other parts suggest that the bike was assembled in 2013 or soon after and then sat unsold until I bought it. I had no problems caused by the bike sitting unused for several years.
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Thanks you very much chaps
Really appreciate the info and you’ve given me food for thought
There is also this one……. It’s about 15 years old , but hasn’t been used for 10 years. There is some rust around the Rohloff and I don’t know how good or bad it would be for a rohloff to be sitting unused for a decade ? Any thoughts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185382713017?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=lvLKz_HEQMO&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=d0z8oqhvska&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
So did you buy it?
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No
I’ve seen two other Ravens for sale, so my brain is frazzled jumping back and forth comparing them all 😄 aswell as the other cheaper older nomads I was looking at
The one I linked will be £1000 + £100 shipping + close to £300 for new parts to give it a refresh. Compared to £900+ shipping and £1000+ Shipping . I don’t know if the other two bikes could use new components or not but they look well kept. In fact I think one of them is gone. It was on eBay.
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If you can change through all 14 gears on the Rohloff hub then it's very likely OK. It's more likely that the shifter and/or cables will have suffered from lack of use than the hub itself where a thin layer of oil should have stayed on the surface of all the parts. I bought my first Rohloff bike brand new in 2019 but the hub was made in 2013. Other parts suggest that the bike was assembled in 2013 or soon after and then sat unsold until I bought it. I had no problems caused by the bike sitting unused for several years.
Thanks JohnR
Wow that’s interesting.
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No
I’ve seen two other Ravens for sale, so my brain is frazzled jumping back and forth comparing them all ....
You have been doing this for a while now haven't you?
I am trying to remember, where are you, I think you said somewhere in USA?
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Yes , quite a while !
I’m in Scotland, my wife is from Texas
I am a long way away from these bikes are for sale, usually in England or Wales . So it’s a bit impractical as I can’t try them out or check their quality .
Money is an issue too, sometimes there’s enough for a bike sometimes there is isn’t and usually things never line up , right bike, right time , right financial situation , right family situation etc.
I was keen for a mk3 from Thorn and new there was stock coming in but it was all pre-sold . I assumed they were getting a decent batch in for sale since I think it was over a year I had been waiting . I could pre-book one from the next batch which I think is coming in September/October (not totally sure , just what I heard) but I don’t any to miss another summer so would be willing to buy a cheaper bike temporarily. Getting one in your size /colour/decent condition is challenging
I was actually getting to buying one. The guy who was very helpful and sent me videos stopped responding after I asked about rust around the seat post tube and inside that I could see in the video . I don’t know if I offended him or what . Oh well what can you do
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I was actually getting to buying one. The guy who was very helpful and sent me videos stopped responding after I asked about rust around the seat post tube and inside that I could see in the video . I don’t know if I offended him or what . Oh well what can you do
I thought you were from Texas, guess I was wrong but not too far wrong.
It is better to ask about rust that you saw before you travel a great distance to ask. I usually assume if someone does not answer my questions about something that they are selling, they know that the answer is probably a deal breaker. So, I move on instead of pushing the issue.
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Yeah
The rust looked superficial but I wondered how far down it went
He had sanded back a patch of rust on the frame to bare metal and treated it with rust prevention stuff
I don’t know
People leave bikes in sheds and garages over here in the UK an the climate can often be cold and damp. A decent bike that was kept in the houses might develop rust if ours moved outside into a shed for a couple years unused
One of the ravens I looked at hadn’t been used for ten years and the rohloff didn’t look good on the outside. I’m sure it was fine but it just puts me off
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One of the ravens I looked at hadn’t been used for ten years and the rohloff didn’t look good on the outside. I’m sure it was fine but it just puts me off
Was that the one from Bridgwater being sold by a Mr Thorn with a detailed breakdown of an optional workshop service? Any and every secondhand bike purchase is a bit of a gamble, I'd have thought that one less so than most.
Money is an issue too
I appreciate that, it's still nice to dream, I'd be inclined to dream of the perfect bike and postpone purchase till it was affordable. I'm an unrepentant self confessed bike nerd, before that obsession took over I rode cheap Halfords hybrids. I like my bikes, all of them, but I'm also happy to admit I haven't done a single mile that couldn't have been ridden on one of the Halfords hybrids. However much you might want one of these bikes, don't get trapped into thinking you need one.
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There's a Nomad for sale on the Audax, buy and sell facebook group:
"Thorn Nomad (Rohloff, S&S couplings).
Size 562L. Working perfectly.
Everything in photos included. £1400 o.n.o."
NE England so might be easier for you to get to than some.
it's a private FB group so you'll have to join to see the photos.
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It seems to be a fact of life that the only way to find out that a bike is ideal for the intended use is to buy it and ride it several times. A test ride on a dealer's demo bike might reveal if a bike is unsuitable but won't be enough to determine if a bike ticks all the boxes. Plus, as we who have too many bikes know, each is best suited to a different use.