Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Lighting and Electronics => Topic started by: Oldboybob on November 05, 2021, 03:37:24 pm
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Hi all,
I have a Son 28 dynamo hub and it currently runs a Sinewave Revolution USB unit on a Nomad I have bought.
I would like to fit some quality lights to it, ones that are powerful and you can see well in completely unlit areas rather than ones just to be seen.
Does anyone have any recommendations that would fit the bill?
Or indeed if anyone has some for sale that would be great also.
Thank you
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B&M are the most common ones out there. Their website is a bit hard to navigate to find their dyno powered headlamps, but this link takes you to them.
https://www.bumm.de/en/products/dynamo-scheinwerfer.html
Lots of choices, lots of variation in prices, some more powerful than others, some more fragile than others.
I have only used B&M and I have one AXA light. There are a few other brands too. One nice think about B&M lights is that you can see on their website what a headlamp pattern looks like.
I have a couple Luxos U, but I am starting to think they might not be that great for touring, especially when you already have the Sinewave. I have an IQ-XS on one bike, nice light for a good price, with metal housing it is pretty durable too. Note that there also is an IQ-XS with plastic housing, so if you want a metal housing, be careful what you order.
Some of the B&M headlights are poorly sealed on the bottom and rear, so if you do not run fenders, be careful to mount the light where you do not get much tire spray.
I am intentionally silent on taillight, you did not say if you want it frame mounted, rack mounted, fender (mudguard) mounted, etc. I have a rack mounted taillight and on a couple bikes a fender mounted taillight.
Photos are not one of my touring bikes, it is my rando bike where my Sinewave is usually fitted. If I do a tour, the Sinewave is removed from that bike, it goes on whatever I tour on. I have fitted spade connectors so that I can disconnect my Sinewave and re-connect the headlamp to the hub if I remove the Sinewave. Since I move some of my equipment from one bike to another, I have tried to put quick connects wherever I might want them later. Light shown is the metal IQ-XS. I think some of the B&M lights have a better light pattern, but I chose this light anyway. They now rate the IQ-XS at 80 lux, mine was rated at 70 so the internals might be different now.
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Thank you for the quick and detailed reply!
Yes the rear would be for a rack fitting. I hadn’t looked at the b and m ones in detail, I have a budget of around £100-180 for both front and rear so want to make the right choice.
Thanks again
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Sorry Mickeg I forgot to ask, can the Sinewave be switched off when using lights? Or can the Son 28 power both? I have not had a combined set up before.
Thanks
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You wire the taillight to the headlight. There are two pairs of wires from the headlight, one pair to the hub and the other the taillight. The headlight switch controls both lights.
When the lights are off, the lights consume virtually no power at all. Then all the power goes to the Sinewave. Thus, no need for extra switches. When your light is on it will consume the vast majority of the power, so it is best to assume you won't get much from your Sinewave with lights on. I have measured a small amount of power out of my Sinewave when my lights were on, but it was not enough to realistically charge up any devices.
Wire the headlamp and Sinewave in parallel. If you do not know what that means, you have two wires each from the hub, from the Sinewave, and from the light. Connect one of the wires from each of those devices together so the wires are like a Y. Then connect the other wire from each device like a second Y. From my photo you could see I have two wires coming up a fork blade, and each of those wires connects to one wire from both the light and the Sinewave.
On a different forum I detailed how I wired up my rando bike. That may give you some ideas. The link to that is at:
https://www.bikeforums.net/electronics-lighting-gadgets/1228845-wiring-up-dyno-powered-lighting-system-usb-charger.html
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Thank you very much Mickeg, much appreciated 👍
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There's a fair bit of choice in decent front dynamo lights. The SON Edelux II is a thing of beauty, good beam, solid build, strong bracket, tough cable, clever sealed switch... really there's little to fault it, I have two! I also have a B&M IQ-X, there's a lot to recommend that as well, not least it being the first dynamo light to hit 100 Lux and it has a lovely beam shape, if anything it slightly takes the edge over the SON, but... it's spoilt by an annoying electrical switch that turns the light on at random times (Though thankfully not off) the bracket is a bit flimsy and I've heard stories of condensation, though mine hasn't suffered that. The list price of the IQ-X isn't far short of the SON, but if you shop around it can be had a lot cheaper.
For a rear rack mounted light - well IMO there's a decision to be made, they fall into one of two types, a big blob of light or a smaller more intensive one. I like to have one of each, one dynamo the other battery. For a large blob, the Spanninga Elips (Which was originally the Phillips Saferide, before they pulled out of the cycle light market) is my choice, I prefer it to the B&M offerings. For smaller intensive, the SON looks good, though I've never seen one, I have the similar looking B&M Toplight Small but I wouldn't want it as my only rear light.
Dynamo lights are great, I can and do ride all night with one, but they don't compete with some of the powerful (And anti-social) battery lights. I have one of these, a 700 lumen Niterider Lumina (The current version is 1,200 lumen :o), in the dead of night when there's no one around, using it to turn night into day can be great, I tend to use that and a dynamo light as I would a high/low beam on a motor vehicle.
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One last quick note on dyno powered taillights. You probably already know this, but just in case you don't, they do not have a flash setting. They are on or off. I often have a battery powered taillight on in flash mode during daytime riding.
When touring on my S&S coupled bike, I do not even bring dyno powered lights along, instead using battery lighting. On tour, I am almost never riding at the time of day when you need artificial lighting to see where you are going. And when touring I am charging up batteries with my dynohub when I am rolling.
That said, I think dyno powered lights are great for when I want to ride during darker hours of the day. Thus I have dyno powered lights on several bikes.
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I currently have B&M front lamps on all the family bikes, mainly Cyo, which are generally a bit less expensive than the IQ-X, which I also have. I did have an Edelux, it failed recently after more than ten years of use.
When riding, I didn't really notice a difference between the brightest (80 lux) Cyo and the slightly higher output from the IQ-X or the Edelux. The switch on the Cyo looks flimsier and the finish doesn't look as nice, but the Cyo seems to work just as well for me. I get the version without the extra "daytime running LEDS" and with the standlight feature.
At the rear I have two lamps on bikes without racks - a mudguard mounted dynamo powered B&M Secula and a battery powered Cateye LD1100. On the bikes with a rear rack I have a third lamp, a B&M Line Plus wired in parallel with the Secula. The Cateye is a point source with 10 fairly bright LEDs, of which 2 pairs face directly sideways, which improves visibility from the side, particularly useful on roundabouts. The B&M rear lamps are more diffuse and give a wider but fainter patch of light, but still very visible from directly behind.
I generally leave the dynamo lamps switched on all the time, the Cateye only at night or in poor visbility OR when I ride in heavy traffic.
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MartinF makes a good point when he said: I generally leave the dynamo lamps switched on all the time, ...
On this forum, especially if the bike is a Nomad, I assume people are using their equipment for touring, and my answers to their questions reflect that. When touring, I am primarily using my dynohub to charge device batteries. But when not touring and when I have no need to charge up batteries, I often leave my dyno powered lights on during the daytime for the extra visability.
There is an extra measurable drag from a dyno powered light system, but it is so minor that I can't feel that drag and I do not turn off my lights in hopes of saving a few extra seconds or maybe a couple minutes on a long ride. I recall reading an article several years ago that suggested that hub drag was equivalent to five or six feet of elevation over a mile of distance. I consider that extra drag insignificant.
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Very detailed and useful advice.
Thank you to all, I shall make my decision and post pictures up when set up.
Thanks again!
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Another thing you might consider is whether the technology has reached it's peak. As martinf says there's little difference in output between the top rung and those a step or two down, the differences are in the build quality which is likely to improve the chances of longevity.
I've changed lights four times in the last 25 years, each time replacing working lights with better. SON twin halogens - Supernove E3 - Edelux - Edelux II (The IQ-X was an addition rather than a replacement) Each time I've been impressed with the new light, until something better came along. I bought a Edelux II for a new build, then each time I went back to the bike with the original Edelux the difference was noticeable enough that I replaced it.
In short, I bought lights, at a premium, on the basis that they'd last a lifetime, then have only kept them on average six years!
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there's little difference in output between the top rung and those a step or two down, the differences are in the build quality which is likely to improve the chances of longevity.
Maybe. I currently have 10 Cyos in service on the various family bikes. So far (touch wood, I said something similar about Supreme tyres on Tuesday and had one fail the day after...) I haven't had one fail, and I have had some of them longer than the Edelux, which did finally fail.
In the past I have sometimes had front lamps damaged when using trains or other transport, or vandalised when leaving a utility bike parked, though not in the past 20 years or so. Which is also a reason I tend not to get the most expensive model.
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Regarding how fast light technology is changing, above I said:
... They now rate the IQ-XS at 80 lux, mine was rated at 70 so the internals might be different now.
And I found that I had saved the light pattern from the 70 lux IQ-XS to my hard drive from their website. First attachment.
Their website shows the light pattern for their 80 lux version, at this link:
https://www.bumm.de/files/Produkte/Lichtbild-Busch+Mueller-80-Lux.jpg
I think their 80 lux light pattern is much better than their 70 lux pattern. I am not going to go out and buy new lights, but this does suggest that whatever you buy today, in a few years there will probably be something much nicer out there.
For my own use when it comes to personal computers, I have usually bought ones that were a year or two behind the current best ones. While that meant my computers were usually a bit slower and a bit less memory than the latest ones out there, I did save a lot of money in the process as each upgrade was a lot cheaper.
Second attachment, how many of you remember the original D Lumotec oval light? I have one on my errand bike. I am not sure if this was the first LED light for dynohubs or not, but it might have been. But I only use this one on well light residential streets, I use it more as a to-be-seen light, not so much to see with it.
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+1 for the B&M Cyo and the Cateye LD1100 if you can still find it. I have had the two first Cyo models (one long range without reflector, one wide cast with reflector, the latter superior unless you're a speed merchant and have ultra-good eyes) for a dozen years or more, and a whole row of the Cateye LD1100, which can be ruined when the battery cap, which contains two of the LEDs, falls off on the road and is lost -- I now secure the cap with a tie wrap between the rows of LED lenses. The LD1100 are expensive but there is nothing as good, so I keep making the effort to find them and spending the money.
All my bikes have racks, and of the dyno taillights on these, the best from a safety perspective is without question the B&M Line Plus, which I supplement with the flashing modes of the LD1100 -- photo in action at the bottom of the page here:
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec5.html
At the front I supplement the Cyo with a small German-branded Chinese torch that appears to have fallen off a truck in China, because none of the B&M lamps have flashing modes. The torch is also good in the daytime, besides making me more noticeable, when I judge some driver is closing too fast from the front on a lane I know from experience is too narrow for us to pass without accident unless both are crawling: I turn the torch on the fish mouth mount directly onto the closing car's windscreen. Never fails to slow even the most obstreperous of the immigrants in their first cars. (I wouldn't advise you to do it on tour, though; German police, for instance, take a very narrow view of flashing lamps, almost as if they want a monopoly on them.) At night I turn the fish mouth to direct the flashing white torch onto the road, from where it reflects more than enough light to draw attention not only to the bicycle signature of a flashing lamp but also to the cycle and the cyclist. The torch also has two steady modes of different intensity, one intense, the other weaker to stretch out the use of the lipo battery, so it can serve as an emergency lamp, but none of my B&M lamps have failed, nor any of my Shimano and SON dynamos. For a tenner and free delivery from Aliexpress the torch is a bargain, which none of the B&M lamps are.
Be careful in choosing your B&M lamp. Further to the warning already given above, B&M can be a bit careless with the description "IQ", which describes the reverse reflector which mounts the LED in the CYO, which fathered a whole family of IQ lamps, of which some are brilliant and have been recommended above by name, and at least one is crap, decent enough on first sight for the amount and reach of its light and its versatility (it works with electric bikes) but impossible to live with because of its migraine-inducing hotspot. See http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec6.html
for hotspot photos of the B&M Fly E which I'd definitely advise you to give a big miss. Some of the CYO sequential series haven't been as good as the original ones I'm enthusiastic about above (and even so I'm much more enthusiastic about the one with with the R in the name and the reflector), so check if you buy NOS stock at a big discount that you're getting the good ones.
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Second attachment, how many of you remember the original D Lumotec oval light? I have one on my errand bike. I am not sure if this was the first LED light for dynohubs or not, but it might have been. But I only use this one on well light residential streets, I use it more as a to-be-seen light, not so much to see with it.
I had some of these. IMO only marginally better than the B&M or Schmidt halogen headlamps they replaced, mainly because of no more burnt-out bulbs.
The difference between the Lumotec and the first Cyo lamps was (again IMO) more of a quantum leap, enough to get me to progressively upgrade all the family bikes.
I still have some of the original Cyos (40 lux with reflector and 60 lux without) in service. Although the current Cyo (60 lux with reflector and 80 lux without) and IQ-X (100 lux) lamps are a little brighter, to me the difference doesn't seem so flagrant as the jump from Lumotec to Cyo.
I have had the two first Cyo models (one long range without reflector, one wide cast with reflector, the latter superior unless you're a speed merchant and have ultra-good eyes)
On the old models I reckon that the 40 lux version with reflector is visible through a wider angle than the 60 lux without reflector, so more suitable for urban riding, where my main criterion is being seen.
But according to the B&M website, the beam on the current Cyo Premium models seems wider for the 80 lux without reflector than for the 60 lux with reflector. Near field lighting seems to be similar. So when I need another front lamp I currently get the 80 lux without reflector.
80 lux: https://www.bumm.de/de/produkte/dynamo-scheinwerfer/produkt/1752qsndi.html?
60 lux: https://www.bumm.de/de/produkte/dynamo-scheinwerfer/produkt/1752qrsndi.html?
I don't bother with the slightly more expensive daytime running light versions with the "t" in the designation (Tagfahrlicht), to me it seems more sensible just to leave the lamp switched on all the time:
https://www.bumm.de/de/produkte/dynamo-scheinwerfer/produkt/1752qtsndi.html?
All four current versions of the Cyo Premium have the Standlight feature, this is useful as the lamp stays on for a few minutes, so there is still some visibility if stopped at traffic lights or waiting to turn left after oncoming traffic.
The standlight is also useful for precisely aligning the headlamp, which I do at night, to make sure the cutoff is set high enough for the lamp to still be easily visible from average car driver height.
The B&M rear lamps I use also have the standlight feature. I align these as near as I can to level, with their spread of light they are very visible at car driver height about 20 metres away, while still being reasonably visible from much further away.
As the Cateye LD1100 is more of a point source it spreads out more, so it is very visible from HGV cab height at about 30 metres away and still visible at car driver height very close behind the bike.
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Yes, the B&M Cyo was a watershed, as you say, Martin, the point at which bicycle lamps achieved their adulthood. I too wouldn't be without the stand light function.
There's also an auto-on/off light-sensitive switch on the upper-level B&N lamps which someone with a device charging requirement might consider useful.
I don't charge my phone from the dyno on my bikes -- instead I have a small lipo backup which fits in the handlebar dry bag for the iPhone which puts my heart rate directly in my sightline, and either the lipo or the phone directly can be recharged from my bike's electric motor battery, just a matter of plugging in the cable, which is carried on the bike, so the phone always returns home fully charged, however long the journey.
However, I had an experience a couple of years ago which gave me to grasp that the light-sensitive switch might be useful in a dyno-device charging/recharging situation.
Normally, when more than two or three people cycle with me, we agree where we're going and I ride in front with whoever wants to talk. But on this day I was bringing some stragglers along through town at the end of our countryside ride, and the rest of the group was before us on an unavoidable inner bypass at a point where the stem of a T junction comes into it, carrying an entire region's bus and lorry traffic among the cars. The building facing this T is the back of a church with a very few windows high up.
The minute the lead group of cyclists disappeared into the shadow the church cast, they were just gone. And this was on a bright sunshine day, and even though I wore prescription polaroids. It wasn't until a cyclist wearing a reflective Sam Browne belt rode through a beam of light cast by a stained glass window that I picked them up again. A driver in a car or a truck would have the same difficulty in seeing even several cyclists in that high-contrast shadow, as several confirmed by flashing their lights immediately the sunlight shone briefly on the Sam Browne to establish for themselves that there was something on the road under the church. I returned after we dispersed at my front door, less than a kilometer beyond that and parked my bike behind the back of the church, and the rear lamp (B&M Line Plus) definitely made it visible from a distance, and so did the broken Sam Browne I use to stabilize the bottom of the pannier basket.
Riding through that section again and again with various switch settings for the lamps, and later riding in the countryside through tunnels of trees or deep valleys, I discovered that the light sensitive switch will recognize situations like that and switch the lamps on. We don't have any except a short disused car or train tunnel around here to use for a test, but a tourer might meet tunnels as well, and cities are not called the "urban jungle" for nothing. These are all good situations in which to know your lamps will switch on as necessary until you come out into the light again, when they will switch off again, and the dynamo will resume charging the batteries in your other devices.
iPhone owners may have to be a little careful with this facility. Apple is awfully finicky about the level, quality and constancy of power used to recharge their devices, which is why I like having a buffer battery between my iPhone (and expensive electronics in general) and the power source. I did however try charging my iPhone 4S from the SON via a DIY charger built on a USB output board I bought in China, and it charged fine regardless of interruptions to redirect the power to the lamps. Unfortunately I gave the board away or broke it up for parts or just lost it because when I replaced the 4S with an iPhone SE (2016) and wanted to try it on that, I couldn't find the DIY bike charger. Too bad, but no reason it shouldn't work on the 2016 SE as well, or the current 2nd generation SE first seen in 2020. Part of the reason I chose the iPhone 4s and the SE is that they have superior heat dispersion through the carved solid aluminum body and can thus be left on and operating, recording my heart rate and recharging at the same time, for hours on end. This is relevant because I suspect that the root cause of Apple's finick with the quality of charging devices is inspired by not wanting to spend money developing and building in a proper amount of heat dispersion and thereby adding bulk and mass to their elegant phones which, if my suspicion is right, makes it logical to conclude that Apple software uses battery temp as the main switch in charging shutdown. This is also the reason that the generality of bicycle dynamo owners hoping to charge especially Apple devices, but possibly others too -- I don't know, should buy a charger from a reputable maker rather than trying to DIY their own: that the reputable maker's device will put out clean power, meaning a constant current which in turn guarantees the tightly specified voltage Apple demands.