Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Member's Gallery => Topic started by: LorenzoB on March 01, 2021, 08:25:14 pm
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Ok, I know, the name is a bit weird, but for now that’s how I like to call my Sherpa build. Once covid is over I will probably change her name, but the nickname will stick in my memory as a reminder to "carpe diem", and to tour/cycle while I can. Most importantly, building this bike has allowed me to distract my mind and maintain a certain level of mental sanity ;D
I built my Sherpa in my bike shed, hidden from my wife (I didn’t want to tell her I bought “yet another bike”!). Sarah from SJS cycles has been extremely helpful in guiding me through the choice of the frame and fighting my initial (unfunded) doubts that the frame was too small for me. This is my first experience building a bicycle. Quite scary at the beginning, but exciting!
I did not want to spend too much money, so I order the frame, and built the bike using a few components from a 50 Euros broken mountain bike that I found in a charity shop. The tires (26x2.0 Supremes) and a few other components (Ergon Grips, stem T-shaped support, etc.) I bought from SJS. The beauty of a simple bike is that it works well and is reliable also with inexpensive components!
I love my Sherpa. It rides beautifully, just as many people say. I have never ridden a bicycle so comfortable. I owe also a fast road bike, a Canyon Endurace, but I currently prefer to ride with the Sherpa. The fact that it allows me to carry luggage, even on day rides, is key. I wanted a bike that I can use for night rides, also in cold weather. A bike that I can also use to carry groceries (or my little daughter), and to do cycle touring - possibly with camping - when needed.
The comparison with the light (less than 9 kgs) Canyon road bike is interesting. While with the road bike I can definitely ride faster (reaching 30-35 km/h is not that difficult), on rides lasting several hours the average speed is not very different between the two bikes; at least in the flat roads of the Netherlands, where I live. I would say that the Sherpa with 26x2.0 Supremes is typically 10-15% slower than my 700ccx25 road bike on my comfort level of cycling power. But on a long ride these reduce to nothing, particularly if I ride often through urban areas, because with a more confident and comfortable bicycle I end up making fewer stops.
Non-standard components I am pretty happy about (in addition to the usual GP5 Ergon grips and B17 Brooks saddle), are the lock and the rear rack bag. The lock is a AXA foldable 1000, visible in one of the attached pics. It weights a lot, almost 2kgs, but it is compact, it fits very neatly and securely in its support on the frame, and is long enough to wrap around most fixed like street lamp poles. I chose the 1000 version because it has such a high level of security that the bike with the lock can be covered by bicycle insurance (and in the Netherlands bicycle theft is a national sport..). There are lighter versions, but those cannot be insured. I might also try with a permanently attached “ring lock”, very popular here in the Netherlands.
The bag is a Topeak MTX Trunkbag. I fixed it to the rack through a plastic support (~14 Euros) presenting a sort of slide connector that allows the bag to be removed very easily. The bag has small lateral panniers that can fit inside the bag. When the panniers are not needed, these can be just lifted up and enclosed in neat lateral pockets with zips. The bag is made of sturdy material and I find the organisation of space very practical. I use the bag also on my road bike: the bag can be used with a Topeak saddle supported rack – I think this option might be useful for people that own a touring bike and a road/Audax bike and don’t want to spend money on two bags (I suspect there are many in this forum).
My dream is to use my Sherpa to cycle from the Netherlands to Northern Italy to visit my parents after the covid situation has become more manageable. I don’t think the full ride is going to happen any time soon because I cannot take too many days off for a solo ride– I have a 4 years old child and would not want my wife to carry the burden of childcare all by herself while I am away enjoying life. But maybe I will travel by train until somewhere midway, for example Munich, and then cross the Alps.
I just wanted to present my bike and share my joy of having built my first bike from scratch. I have learned a lot from this forum! Actually this forum is one of the reasons why I chose Thorn over other brands..
Lorenzo
P.S. I will work towards keeping the Sherpa myth alive ;)
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That lovely red Sherpa of yours looks nothing like a "budget build"! :)
You did really well and it is a corker! All good wishes for happy times together.
Best,
Dan.
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I hope you enjoy the Sherpa, and for the Western European tours and local riding you have in mind, it would certainly be more than adequate. But when I built up a Sherpa, I was very frustrated by its relatively small tire clearance for a touring bike these days – good luck putting both 2.00" tires and mudguards on there (which would be the best combination for a number of popular touring routes around the world).
Also, 26" bikes are on the way out and it may soon be hard to find quality touring tires for that wheel size. Rim-brake bikes, too. At least the Nomad Mk2, while sold as a 26" frame, could fit 650B tires if one used disc brakes, but that won’t work on the Sherpa due to both clearance and rim braking. So, all in all, I’m not surprised that Thorn retired the Sherpa just as other touring-frame makers have retired their comparable models.
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Congratulations of your first bike build and hoping you have many happy miles together.
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I hope you enjoy the Sherpa, and for the Western European tours and local riding you have in mind, it would certainly be more than adequate. But when I built up a Sherpa, I was very frustrated by its relatively small tire clearance for a touring bike these days – good luck putting both 2.00" tires and mudguards on there (which would be the best combination for a number of popular touring routes around the world).
Also, 26" bikes are on the way out and it may soon be hard to find quality touring tires for that wheel size. Rim-brake bikes, too. At least the Nomad Mk2, while sold as a 26" frame, could fit 650B tires if one used disc brakes, but that won’t work on the Sherpa due to both clearance and rim braking. So, all in all, I’m not surprised that Thorn retired the Sherpa just as other touring-frame makers have retired their comparable models.
Tyres on the way out? Ridiculous!
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Frame looks too small!
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Thank you all for your encouraging and somewhat critical words ::) Notice that the build is not complete, I still need to install the SKS mudguards which I bought, and the rear brake.
Frame size: the frame size is 530L, which is right for my inseam - with the larger frame the reach would be better, but the height of the top tube would be borderline unsafe. I have relatively short legs in comparison to the length of the torso, so I need to accept a compromise by using a stem with a long reach. I also use a long stem because I can attain a very aerodynamic position when it is windy (which happens practically everyday in the Netherlands). A further advantage with this frame size is that, if I want, I also install drop bars by using a short stem, if I find in the long run that straight bars are not for me. For now I am very happy with my riding position, even though the bike looks weird (it has been said that Thorn bicycles look aesthetically challenged anyway :) ).
Wheels: yes, the unavailability of high-quality 26 inch tires is something that worries me. In retrospect I think that a Club Tour with 650b would have also been a good option, I didn't consider it because I wanted to stick to the budget I set for myself. Also the Nomad would have been a good option, but I think it is overkill for the way I use the bike. Unloaded, I find the Sherpa pretty quick even with 2 inch tires (WorldTourer - because of your comment I am scared of installing mudguards now; any tip?).
I doubt with emerging markets such as India and China buying tires 26 inches wheels will completely disappear, and with tires that last 5000 miles, how many different types of high-quality tires do I really need?
I really like the feel of the 26 inch tires with a frame that is "close to the ground". If I were going for larger 700cc wheels I would probably build the bike as a Randonneur with a small load carrying capacity, with dropbars and relatively light wheels. Something to cover long distance in a short time. The bike would have a very different feeling, I am sure.
In a way, for me the Sherpa is not the end of a decision process, rather a beginning. I wanted an unassuming bike that I can use everyday for commuting and to use to explore bike touring. If I seriously like bike touring, I am sure I will buy/build other bikes!
Lorenzo
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Looks good to me, Lorenzo, and well done!! Personally, I light the 'tight' frame set up, and if it suits you, go for it.
I also have a red Sherpa, a 530S, so almost identical! And yes, that is a lovely bike. Very nimble in traffic, feels secure in bad weather and good brakes (XT v-brakes and levers), better than on the Audax I normally ride now. In the last 3 - 4 years, it has mainly been used for commuting-style riding, for which it is ideal in my view. Mine also has straight bars - and the shorter frame with straight bars suits me well as I think I have relatively short arms in relation to height - or maybe I just prefer that posture.
My average speeds on Sherpa are only marginally slower than on the Audax, except perhaps on long open-road rides.
2" Supremes? A good choice in my view, mine is currently on 1.6" Supremes. They have been fine on a mixture of surfaces from gravel to road, never had a puncture with them. If you hit a muddy patch, they are better than their smooth surface would suggest, I've never been landed in the mud. So far! I think 2" will probably fit with mudguards?? if I remember rightly, Supremes when fitted are slightly narrower than some other tyres, no bumpy treads, I reckon you will be ok. Careful adjustment of guards likely to to needed, but it always is.
My Sherpa frame is now about 7 years old - but most of the components were transferred over from an earlier 26" wheel bike, a Ripio, which was good, but heavier than I needed for increasingly road-oriented use. 165 mm cranks suit me better, and a light Tubus Vega rack. Light Swiss wheels, it comes out a lot lighter than many 'touring' bikes on the market.
My Sherpa is currently on loan to my daughter, who is waiting for her ordered Trek to arrive. She has been furloughed for a year now, and has been keen to get riding again. I hope I get it back!!
So, you will have guessed I'm a Sherpa fan!!
Good luck and good riding.
Lewis
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Sorry, adding something . . . . . in a rather boring Zoom meeting and chipping in when I get the chance . . . .
I was interested in your comment, Lorenzo, about feeling 'closer to the ground' on a 26" bike. I find this as well, enables quicker responses I think if you are carved up in traffic or other situations. Some would say that's twitchy, but no, I would say nimble.
On urban roads, I feel safer on the Sherpa than I do on my 700 wheeled Audax - on the 'open road', the Audax lopes along better - predictable I guess. So, I can imagine the Sherpa suits your needs very well.
So, I am sorry that 26" wheels are falling out of favour - though I reckon their supply will outlast me.
Interestingly, my daughter, who has the bike at present, and is used to Trek drop bar road bikes, STI gears etc., likes the Sherpa with its straight bars and thumbie shifters very much . . . . . . I must check that she has ordered that Trek . . . . . . but I might have to pay for it to get Sherpa back!
Best wishes to all
Lewis
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So, I am sorry that 26" wheels are falling out of favour - though I reckon their supply will outlast me.
This happened with 650B tyres, which were common when I moved to France in 1980. Decent tyres for this size became progressively harder and harder to find, and at one time I could only find one source for rims, the "confrerie des 650B", a support group for the tyre size here in France managed to convince a manufacturer to make some.
Then, a few years ago, 27.5 inch was introduced as a new standard. The rim dimension at ETRTO 584 is exactly the same as 650B. So I was able to source decent modern tyres (Schwalbe Marathon Supreme in 2.0 and 1.6) to equip the two very old 650B bikes I still have. Rims took a little longer, as most of the modern ones are disc brake only, but there are now a few rim brake compatible 27.5 inch rims available.
26 inch is much more common than 650B ever was, so I hope there will still be a few decent tyres available for the next few years for my 26" wheel bikes. If not, I will have to make do with my small stock of spares, which should last me quite a long time as these modern tyres seem to last much longer than 1970-1980 tyres.
27 inch also went out of fashion. This didn't matter to me, as the difference between 27" at ETRTO 630 and the still popular 700C size at ETRTO 622 was small enough to allow me to fit 700C rims and tyres on my 1977 Woodrup frame.
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Nice bike Lorenzo!
Re 26" 559 tyres. I foresee a time when the sale of 29 ( actually a 622 rim) MTBs slows down and the manufacturers will suddenly "discover" that the 559 rims are a bit more nimble than the 29s and build into a stronger wheel!
Similarly the manufacturers will discover that disc brakes including the stronger fork required weigh about 600 grams more than equivalent rim brakes on a road bike and the rim brakes look neater anyway!
Mike
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Thank you Mike, Martinf and Lewis noble for your insights.
Regarding the 26'' issue, as martinf has rightly pointed out, if I see good 26 inches tires disappearing, I will buy a small stock of supremes or panacer. But I am not overly worried: the number of 26 inches bikes, including now e-bikes, in the world is too large for the big players like Schwalbe to ignore the profit. Besides, there are many nations were people are not as tall as in England or the Netherlands, and for customers in these nations relatively small wheels will likely continue to be a good choice. An example: the new Surly Disk Trucker, which together with its rim version is probably one of the most popular tourers in the world, is still 26'' for all frame sizes below 56 cm. I suspect this is due to the fact that 26 inches is still a good tire size, it is strong and its use avoids issues with toe overlap and such.
Lewis - I am tempted by the 1.6 supremes. I am sure they are faster than my current ones and would probably be perfect for the spotless bicycle paths of the country where I live. I just would like to do a longish test trip with my 2'' supremes, decently loaded with camping gear, before starting swapping tires. Already moving from the 25mm tires of my road bike to the 2'' tires of the Sherpa has required a bit of "psychological adjustment". I will likely buy a tubus vega like you, I think it should be robust enough for the type of touring I intend to initially do. And probably reduce the crank length from the current 175mm to 170mm, which should enable me to reach a higher cadence.
Regarding the frame size. For my style of riding I can see the benefit of using the smallest frame compatible with my inseam and upper leg length. Less weight, easier to store/pack, a bit more nimble. Larger frames I am sure are slightly more stable, but the Sherpa does not have issues with stability ;)
Speaking about bicycle stability: I watched yesterday a TED lecture on the stability of bicycles which you may find interesting. The lecturer, Arend Schwab, happens to be a colleague of mine in the university where I work. He has a small lab where he is working on designing self-standing bikes for the elderly. I might lend him my Sherpa to conduct a study on loaded touring bikes :D
https://youtu.be/2Y4mbT3ozcA
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Writing here and reporting my own experiences. This is particularly important to show for those who ask for personal experience and not just hearsay or wild comment. This is experience over very many years.
Every single time I take my measurements and compare to Thorn 'advisory' sizes, Thorn tell me I need a frame 'smaller' than those which I ride comfortably.
I, as many of this Forum will no doubt be aware, have over many years (!) built numerous Thorn bicycles. 'All' of them fit me perfectly. It has taken a lifetime literally to know what fits. But Thorn insist and keep insisting that the frame size I require is always too small! Take for instance, Thorn Audax Mk whatever number you prefer. Thorn tell me (or rather the sales staff who are following dated measurement guidelines) that I require a 525 size. I originally purchased this size. I ended up with a stem poking up towards the sky. It looked and was ridiculous to ride. I sold it at a loss and purchased a 550. Does it fit me? It certainly does.
Why do Thorn/SJSC do this? It has, over the years spawned many Forum Group members to take the venerable P! and indeed many times I have had comments about my own bicycles regarding the stem. In fact the steerer on my bikes are fairly short (4cm from headset to bottom of stem).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/186990228@N05/albums
I have in the past on a number of occasion been told by the moderator that if I am unable to be constructive, then keep my mouth shut! I am a great enthusiast of Thorn derailleur bicycles, and consider my comments very constructive. After all I have persevered at a great cost to discover what does and does not fit!
After looking at my photographs of my bikes (I still own some of them) please decide for yourselves if I require a smaller frame.
I will be interested to read comments before I am castigated for bringing shame upon those who know better!
My Sherpa is size 560S which is a larger frame but the next smaller is-too small and looks silly.......
Best to all,
John
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please decide for yourselves if I require a smaller frame.
Why does every thread have to be about you?
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please decide for yourselves if I require a smaller frame.
Why does every thread have to be about you?
PH You in the past recently have told me to base responses on experience!
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Ups..evidently I have opened a can of worms :o
All the feedback is useful for me. I have to admit that Leftpoole's bikes look good, and mine maybe has a stem that is probably longer than it needs to be. But the fact is that when I ordered the bike I could not visit the SJS shop (Covid closure), so I decided to trust the advice they gave me. Now with my tweaks the bike rides well and is comfortable, that's what is most important to me. The next frame I will buy I will definitely visit the shop and try a few frames out.
I generally think that given how different our bodies are it is possible that frame configurations that do not look good are the best fit. If you look at the bikes of Sheldon Brown, you will notice that some of his bikes (including a two handlebar Thorn Raven) look just horrible. And many of the old Koga-Miyatas were not truly good looking according to modern aesthetic standards, despite their recognised high quality.
No.. but.. seriously, my bike looks great ! In Italy we say "Ogni scarrafone e' bello a mamma sua" -> Loosely translated: Every cockroach looks beautiful to his mother ;D
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Lewis - I am tempted by the 1.6 supremes. I am sure they are faster than my current ones and would probably be perfect for the spotless bicycle paths of the country where I live. I just would like to do a longish test trip with my 2'' supremes, decently loaded with camping gear, before starting swapping tires.
I have 1.6 Supremes on my Raven Sport Tour, I use this bike for lightly-loaded day rides, mainly, but not exclusively, on good road surfaces. For my purposes, even on this sort of lightweight bike, the 1.6 Supremes are better than the 1.25 and 1.35 inch tyres I used previously, with no noticeable performance loss on long rides. I suspect that the effect of the increased comfort outweighs any possible extra rolling resistance.
I prefer the 2.0 Supremes on my touring and utility bikes. IMO the wider tyre copes better with heavy loads and unmetalled tracks or paths.
Not in the 26" size, but I expect the conclusion would be similar:
I went from 1.6 Supremes to 2.0 on my old 650B utility bike, the 1.6 Supremes went to my wife's 650B bike which doesn't have enough clearance for 2.0.
After the change I noticed a very slight performance drop and a significant increase in the ability to cope with mild off-road riding. The bike also felt more reassuring with a heavy shopping load. Comfort also increased slightly, but the 1.6 Supremes were already pretty good in that respect.
Before that I had Schwalbe Marathon 1.65 inch tyres on this bike. Both the widths of Supreme had better rolling resistance and comfort than the Marathons, which were already a vast improvement on the 1970's style Michelin tyres I previously had on this bike.
Possible downsides to Supremes are the very thin sidewalls, which could get damaged more easily than heavier tyres like the Marathon. Though so far I have done 28,000 kms on various Supremes without incident.
And the price, they are more expensive. But they seem to last a long time, my longest serving Supreme has done 11,000 kms so far and still has lots of tread.
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Ups..evidently I have opened a can of worms :o
All the feedback is useful for me. I have to admit that Leftpoole's bikes look good, and mine maybe has a stem that is probably longer than it needs to be. But the fact is that when I ordered the bike I could not visit the SJS shop (Covid closure), so I decided to trust the advice they gave me. Now with my tweaks the bike rides well and is comfortable, that's what is most important to me. The next frame I will buy I will definitely visit the shop and try a few frames out.
I generally think that given how different our bodies are it is possible that frame configurations that do not look good are the best fit. If you look at the bikes of Sheldon Brown, you will notice that some of his bikes (including a two handlebar Thorn Raven) look just horrible. And many of the old Koga-Miyatas were not truly good looking according to modern aesthetic standards, despite their recognised high quality.
No.. but.. seriously, my bike looks great ! In Italy we say "Ogni scarrafone e' bello a mamma sua" -> Loosely translated: Every cockroach looks beautiful to his mother ;D
Bravo! 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Ups..evidently I have opened a can of worms :o
It's an old can, but the worms keep changing. At one time it was uncool and open to criticism to have more than a handful of seatpost showing, yet people won the TdF with bars a lot higher than is currently fashionable. If a bikes suits you I don't know what else matters, if it doesn't then that's something you'll find out for yourself. Whether or not it fits in with someone else's idea of what it should be is irrelevant. Of course we all have our preferences, but it's best to apply them to our own bikes rather than others.
The cockroach analogy is a good one, I'll remember that.
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Congratulations on the home brewed bike. I still have a self made bike initially born from the shimano components salved from a bent Dawes framed MTB and married to an aluminium Emmelle frame purchased 2nd hand from someone upgrading his MTB to magnesium frame in the early 90s- a time where aluminium frames were still exotic. After almost 30 years of abuse, upgrades and sensible downgrades of most components it still rides well, and used with trailer attached for supermarket runs still. It always rode way better than it looked too. That cockroach was loved too...
Sadly the last BB change will be the last as the BB thread is worn and damaged and was a struggle to fit. But when I eventually retire that bike, I will be grateful for the experience I gained in bike building, repairs, servicing and riding. Although I am fortunate enough that I can afford to pay for repairs or to simply buy new when something breaks, I get real enjoyment and satisfaction by tinkering with my bikes myself. I hope you get similar enjoyment with your Sherpa.
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Thank you Steve. There is indeed a feeling of satisfaction for giving new life to oldish components that still work.
I don't want to give the Thorn Forum members the impression that my Sherpa COVID is made of junk. The rear derailler is a Deore, the front (triple) crankset is Alivio but in excellent condition, and the brakes are brand new Deore. The chain is new. The shift lever are also good Shimano, the handlebar a good quality Bontrager, etc. So not top of the line components, but decent ones.
But starting from components I knew that worked together on a preexisting bike helped me to avoid the anxiety of buying expensive components that either do not work well together, or are unecessarily expensive while not delivering on the aspects that are most important to me.
Now that I have a bicycle that works I can start improving, having a reference/base case that is already pretty good and a bike I was able to enjoy from day 1!
I went to a a touring bicycle shop the other day and was horrified by the prices of entry level bicycles. A good frame is for life, but components do not need immediately to be top of the line if the customer does not even know what top of the line means ;D At least Thorn gives you the option of choosing the components.
P.S. I include myself in those customers
There are many expenses in touring, and the bicycle is just the beginning. I need a sleeping bag now ;D
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Lorenzo, you've built yourself a do-anything bike that looks terrific and works for you -- well done!
You've got a bike that will last a long time, and because you know it well, you can refresh/upgrade/adapt it as you choose to.
Enjoy your research into touring gear, getting it, and using it. There's a lot of experience in this forum, so send out questions whenever you want.
Pandemic supply-chain problems aside (he said, airily) there's a wide array of quality lightweight gear available. "Quality" and "lightweight" together mean that it ain't cheap, but if you know what you need, and buy deliberately, the costs are manageable. And, your gear will last a long time. I still use some 40-year-old gear. My general (unsolicited!) advice would be: Avoid false economies -- buy quality, or repent at leisure. "Buy quality" need not mean expedition-grade stuff. The upper end of the mid-range band has worked well for me.
Good luck, John
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Thanks John - I will follow your suggestion. You are right: a good component will always find its use - in the original bike or in another.
I am now educating myself on gear combinations exploiting the wealth of information on the topic I received from Danneaux, and when decided I will try to buy the best gear I can.
I am very glad for the excellent advice and feedback I have received in this forum. It's truly a gold mine.
Lorenzo
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the wealth of information on the topic I received from Danneaux
Mmmmmm.....indeed.....'good old' Dan.....
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Following a few other forum focussed on similar bikes and adventures I’m struck by how this one remains a welcoming, informing and good-natured one. Whether it’s Covid-19 related I don’t know but some of the posts on other forum seem quite abrasive, unkind and even unfathomably nasty.
I liken this forum to a great cafe that serves mugs of tea, pieces of cake, words of advice, and plenty of leg pulling. Shall I pour?! ;)
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I went to a a touring bicycle shop the other day and was horrified by the prices of entry level bicycles.
What type of cycle shop and where was this please?
I have never actually seen a 'touring bike shop' other than St John Street Cycles!
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Of course I was talking about NL.
I think there are a few. I am aware of Bike4Travel in Rotterdam, and there is a similar one in Amsterdam (fietsvakantiewinkel?don't remember right now), and then there is the main shop of Santos, which focusses mostly on touring. I am sure there are others, considering how many cyclists there are in the NL and that many people here are willing to spend good money on a bicycle. Apart from Santos, most of these shops sell bikes but do not actually manufacture or design the frame like Thorn does.
I visited Bike4Travel and they were nice and competent, although I only bought some accessories so it is difficult to judge.
I still think Thorn has a nicer approach to selling bicycles. Through the Thorn Bible, the forum, sales and technical staff, they explain WHY you need to buy good components, and if you happen to be tight in budget they still offer you a bicycle - always with a durable frame - and advice. The impression I got by visiting the webshops of touring bike shops in NL and Germany, and a couple of actual "physical" shops, is that the only way to get into bicycle touring is to buy a bicycle with high-spec components of about 3000 Euros. This scares off many people, who could benefit from a solid, comfortable frame but do not see the justification for spending 300 euros on a good crankset (am I thinking about my wife? ;D). That's why I chose Thorn.
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Probably semantics. Read it as a shop that sells touring bikes. :)
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most of these shops sell bikes but do not actually manufacture or design the frame like Thorn does.
Thorn frames are (like most respected touring frames) manufactured in Taiwan to Thorn’s specifications, I believe, and not in house.
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Thorn frames are (like most respected touring frames) manufactured in Taiwan to Thorn’s specifications, I believe, and not in house.
I know, it is quite evidently written on the frame of my Sherpa. That's why I wrote manufactured OR designed. 8)
I think the most important thing is the design. I don't specifically care who actually does the manufacturing part, even though I wished manufacturing could be done locally, and I commend Thorn for being honest about where the manufacturing took place (unlike most other producers).
To leftpole. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "touring bike shop". Is Santos a touring bike shop? Koga? Tout terrain? I think there are several, particularly in Germany. Oxford Bike Works in the UK?
From my limited experience what sets Thorn apart is the philosophy of trying to educate the customer on the technical choices, within obvious constraints due to the necessity of being market competitive. They are not saints but I can see that we are talking about a small company made of people that still have knowledge of their product. Say, if I buy a Koga World Traveller I know I will get an excellent bike, but I would not know much about why it is built the way it is built, and would not be able to adapt the bicycle to my ever-changing tastes. I feel that among Thorn customers there are many people that are interesting in bicycles per se, besides their use for commuting or touring.
Maybe you can elaborate on what you meant by your original question?
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Thorn frames are (like most respected touring frames) manufactured in Taiwan to Thorn’s specifications, I believe, and not in house.
By coincidence rather than design, five of my six bikes have frames manufactured in Taiwan. Five of them are from very British bike suppliers (It's not the same five), but it's only the Thorns where it's clear that's the case.
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The family and visitor bikes are split evenly 3 ways :
4 frames manufactured in France, where I live. All more than 30 years old.
4 frames manufactured in the UK. One is 44 years old, the three others are Bromptons of various ages.
4 frames manufactured in Taiwan. All Thorns, and all recent, which I take to mean less than 10 years since purchase, although all were end-of line offers so might have been manufactured a wee bit earlier.
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I believe that when Thorn originally decided Taiwan was the way forward, that both Robin (Thorn) and also Andy (Blance) went to Taiwan to set up the frameworks and jigs at some cost. I believe further visits were made to ensure the frames were and are indeed built to Thorn specification. I am uncertain but am of the belief it is a small frame builder within (?) a larger business. On the latter I may be incorrect.