Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => General Technical => Topic started by: steve216c on August 24, 2020, 05:02:47 pm
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DISCLAIMER- I did this to satisfy my own curiosity- and am happy with results. Constructive comments and criticism or sharing of experience welcome. Burning at stake for committing of sacrilege on a Rohloff bike not so welcome ;)
So I bought a 10 year old Rohloff hub bike in October last year as a treat to motivate me to ride more often after suffering a stroke. As bike was not full price or fault free, and having diced with death in March 2019, my fear of breaking expensive things is less than had I paid for the bike new. My curiosity to tinker for solutions has grown exponentially as I put on some km on that hub of mine.
After around 500km from purchasing the bike I reversed the rear cog having fashioned a cog remover from a pipe fitting and I fitted a Wipperman Connex X8 chain on it's factory lube. I think I managed about 800km on factory lube despite autumn/winter commutes partially on forest paths, but at some point I had to oil the chain. I'm sure with the same chain on my derailleur bikes that this was probably double what they would have managed. But the Rohloff, partially weather protected by a chain-guard did pretty well till that point.
The winter progressed, and my forest short cut messier, so I oiled the traditional way with chain oil, and a wipe with a cloth. And also experimented with bearing grease instead of oil- as recommended by a couple of local bike shops as better for sub-zero riding. The next 2000km on the chain were more traditional but a fairly messy affair. As my trouser legs and my oily rag would testify, both oil and grease worked, but the chain was quickly filthy, and needed regular cleaning before re-lubing.
And then I found a packet of 50 candles from Ikea in my basement...
I removed the Connex X8 with its great quick link system in seconds. Using terps, I gave the chain a good degrease first. Using an old saucepan on my hob, I melted around 10 mini-candles until the chain was swimming in molten candle wax and let it sit for around 10 minutes on a low heat, stirring occasionally so that the wax could get maximum dispersion on the chain and bushings. Using an old spoke, I removed the chain and hung on nail to cool down. The cold chain felt like it had factory lube on again. So how did it fair?
I managed just over 500km on a single wax treatment. It has been brilliant and smooth action on chain. No oiling or greasing of chain necessary despite riding in some rain and in very dusty off road conditions at times.
Last week I began to notice slight increase in chain friction and slight chain noise last week, so I whipped off the Wipperman, which was reasonably clean to touch without oil or grease being used for a while, and dropped it in a warm pan of oil again.
The chain will reach 4000 km this week, and my only regret is that I let the dirt and grime mix with oil and grease treatments during the winter. I've been amazed how well riding on candle wax compares- and how simple it is to remove and dip the chain to re-lube it. The trousers stay clean, and the reapplication of wax to a cleaner chain was a doddle. When I change chain a sproket the next time, I will try to ride only on wax as I definately feel that less grime and dirt gets stuck on the chain than with oil, so this will hopefully extend the chain life accordingly.
Not for everyone, but for now, I'm sticking to my cheapo Ikea candle wax lube on my Rohloff hub which IMHO is the best lube I've used in 45 years of cycling!
Interested if anyone else has tried similar and come to same (or different) conclusion :)
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I used that technique on my bicycle chain in about 82, though I did not pay any attention to the milleage or really care one way or another about the pros and cons. The reason I treated the chain that way was due to the fact that I was lubing my motorcycle chain that day, and did both the same way. I'd been using the technique on Motorcycle chains since 79, after getting the advice to go that route from my Father who had been using the approach for decades. He stopped using any oil or grease since the late fifties on grandfathers WW2 vintage BMW, which my dad always maintained.
I find it much cleaner on a Motorcycle, but now they have was based spray on products, which make it so much less fuss.
Oh, mine was from an old block of beeswax, which I got when I was 12, as part of my Candle making kit.
You will have to try harder to commit Rohloff heresy, in my opinion. Looking forward to truly crazy ideas soon. ;)
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I am experimenting with Molten Speed Wax, marketed specifically for bicycles. This is basically ordinary paraffin wax as used for candles, with small amounts of Teflon and molybdenum disulphide added.
The formula was published, so it is possible to make up the product oneself (I haven't bothered):
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/friction-facts-publishes-ultrafast-chain-lube-formula/
The manufacturer's website is:
https://moltenspeedwax.com/
At the moment I am using it on the family Bromptons and my one remaining derailleur bike. It will be a while before I try it on my Thorns, as they go for a long time on the original factory lube, especially the bikes that have Chaingliders. I can see three possible advantages:
1 This lubricant is claimed to significantly increase chain life, as it is not supposed to attract grit, but I haven't done this for long enough to know whether this is true or not. If it does, it will be most useful on my Bromptons, as these pick up more muck than ordinary bikes (chain closer to the ground) and chain life is therefore shorter. The advantage on the derailleur bike could be to prolong the life of the multiple (and therefore expensive) chainrings and sprockets.
2 According to the supplier, after the initial removal of the original oil-based lubricant (which is a bugbear) and the first application of wax, there is no need to clean the chain before further applications. Again, I'm not yet sure whether that is true or not. If it is, it will significantly reduce the time I spend cleaning transmission parts for the bikes concerned. Cleaning is less of an issue on hub-geared bikes without chain tensioners.
3 One definite advantage of wax is that the outside of the chain stays cleaner, so there is less mess if you need to repair a puncture.
It is also claimed to reduce friction as compared to most other lubricants, hence the "speed" in the name. I'm not too bothered about that.
The main downside is that to do the job properly the chain has to be removed from the bike and the hot-dipping application process is more complicated than just dripping oil onto a chain. I use a slow cooker to melt the wax, and do several chains at a time to try and optimise the process. Each chain is threaded onto a holder made from an old spoke, the holder keeps the chains separate while immersed in the wax and provides a handle to swish them around to get maximum penetration of the lubricant, and the holder is finally used to hang the chain over the slow cooker so that excess wax drips back into it.
Doing several chains at a time is not a problem for me as I already run between two and four chains on each bike, swapping them at intervals to try and even out the wear on sprockets and chainrings.
Another downside is that applying Molten Speed Wax is not feasable on long tours. And using oil on top of wax makes a sticky mess (or at least it did last time I tried this with wax motorcycle lube a long time ago). The way round this may be to use a drip-application wax lubricant such as Squirt once the wax has worn off.
Wax may be less durable than oil-based lubricants in wet weather. There are conflicting viewpoints on this, but if it is, it will mean swapping my chains more fequently. This might not be too much of a hassle, as it is easier to swap a waxed chain as it is much cleaner.
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....You will have to try harder to commit Rohloff heresy, in my opinion. Looking forward to truly crazy ideas soon. ;)
Glad to see you used similar technique without obvious problems. The Wippermann Connex quick link is so quick to disengage it is not a chore to remove or refit.
I've some other posts to follow this as I progress with running repairs. The baby oil fix will be the next. And with my 5k oil change due in 4-6 weeks I do plan to consider non-Rohloff alternative.
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I used liquid wax out of a commercial bottle on chains inside Dutch all-enclosing plastic chain cases. The wax solidified in air, and as the chain worked, it became more liquid. Little balls of wax greyed by dirt and ground ali fell off the chain so that it was always clean and ready to be handled without dirtying my hands. Every 100km, no more than every 100m, I would give the chain more wax without any chain cleaning because it was clean already. BTW, I live in Ireland where it rains a lot, and that liquid wax would wash off without the chain case, so in the end I started using Oil of Rohloff, which is cheap at a fiver for a small bottle which, since you use only a couple of drops at a time, lasts forever -- even after I put that oil on friends' bikes for years, I'm still on my first bottle even though I bought several so as to have spares.
But even that was too much of a bother for me. I now run KMC X8 or Z8 chains inside a Hebie Chainglider and I do no chain cleaning and never lube, running the chain for a life of approx 4500km on the factory lube. This process is described on the forum in several extended discussions.
And with my 5k oil change due in 4-6 weeks I do plan to consider non-Rohloff alternative.
"Consider" non-Rohloff oils for the Rohloff internals all you like, but don't actually put in anything except Rohloff certified oil. The reason is that common motor oils are full of additives which the Rohloff filters, which are nowhere near as robust as automobile filters, won't like.
Delighted to meet someone else who thinks lube isn't a dull subject at all!
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The longer Covid restrictions stick around, the more exciting lubes become. ;)
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After years of cursing chains on my motorcycles, I Saw The Light and switched to old-but-still-sound BMW airheads.
Chains on bicycles make sense--they're cheap and efficient, but their care and feeding is a PITA. Once again, I Saw The Light, but ISTL 2.0 is a whole lot cheaper than even an old airhead, though it's still German -- 'tis the Hebie 'glider, me boy.
Can't believe that I've read this entire thread, and have added my two cents' worth. Must be the COVID--I've spent more time thinking about the welfare of my chain today than I normally would in a year. ;)
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I have been using the Molten Speed Wax for just two years now - Rohloff with chain tensioner, Sturmey 3 speed and a couple of derailleur bikes. I started using it EXCLUSIVELY to avoid the mess that oil attracts.
At first the waxing process seems long winded but it soon becomes routine. For me (500 KM/month) it's a once a month thing. I know that they say that you don't need to clean the chain but I do. It's chain off, rattle around in white spirit for a few minutes then dump it in an old saucepan and pour boiling water on it which removes the old dirty wax (it does get SLIGHTLY dirty) As the water cools I add some washing up liquid and give the chain a good wash, then a rinse with clean water. I now turn on the slow cooker and place the wet chain on the lid which dries the chain as the wax heats up. Once heated up I drop the chain in and let it simmer for half an hour or so. Then I drag it out with an old spoke, hang to dry and she's ready to go in another half an hour. Back on the bike and repeat in a month. Believe me, it's much easier/quicker to do than it sounds.
The chain and CRUCIALLY the bike stay SO much cleaner than when using oil and to me that is the No1 reason to use this stuff. As/martinf above, I would say that it would be perfect for Bromptons which get carried around near to clean clothing.
There is one big negative. I found that the wax didn't offer much rust protection in winter and this may be dependent on where you live. Around here (North Yorkshire coast) we are right on the edge of the North Sea and the roads are gritted throughout winter - a harsh life for any chain lube. Throughout winter I occasionally wipe the chain down with a cloth and a touch of GT85 which keeps the rust at bay.
As said, I'm two years in with wax which is long enough for me to know that I won't be going back to oiling chains.
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For me (500 KM/month) it's a once a month thing.
With several chains per bike and several bikes, I reckon about once every 6 months for me.
I know that they say that you don't need to clean the chain but I do. It's chain off, rattle around in white spirit for a few minutes then dump it in an old saucepan and pour boiling water on it which removes the old dirty wax (it does get SLIGHTLY dirty) As the water cools I add some washing up liquid and give the chain a good wash, then a rinse with clean water. I now turn on the slow cooker and place the wet chain on the lid which dries the chain as the wax heats up.
I intend to try without this part of the process. This will mean having to replace the wax bath more frequently, but I reckon that the tradeoff in time and in avoiding the use of solvant will probably be worth it.
There is one big negative. I found that the wax didn't offer much rust protection in winter and this may be dependent on where you live. Around here (North Yorkshire coast) we are right on the edge of the North Sea and the roads are gritted throughout winter - a harsh life for any chain lube. Throughout winter I occasionally wipe the chain down with a cloth and a touch of GT85 which keeps the rust at bay.
I don't ride my last remaining derailleur bike all that often, and hardly ever in wet weather, so not a problem there.
As the Bromptons are used mainly as utility bikes when I combine with other transport, they go out in all weathers, but usually not for long distances, so I will see if a combination of swapping chains more often and perhaps topping up with Squirt wax lubricant works for me.
My large-wheel utility bikes and my Thorn touring bike all have Chaingliders, so if I don't need the folding feature of the Bromptons these are my first choice for foul weather riding or riding off-road.
With these bikes, I'll probably try wax lubrication on my old utility bike first, as that is currently running old oil-lubed chains with a Chainglider. If the wax works OK for me on that bike it might be worth doing the other Chainglider bikes when the factory lube needs replacing.
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There is one big negative. I found that the wax didn't offer much rust protection in winter and this may be dependent on where you live. Around here (North Yorkshire coast) we are right on the edge of the North Sea and the roads are gritted throughout winter - a harsh life for any chain lube.
The KMC chains in their top models are all fully nickel-coated, and for Rohloffs there's also a stainless chain. Both types may do better in road salt than plain steel, whatever lube you add in addition to the plating or the non-ferrous construction.
I wish KMC or Connex would make a chain in Cor-Ten steel, which would solve all our problems. Cor-Ten doesn't corrode because the factory rust is (presumably chemically -- does anyone know?) treated to be an anti-corrosion layer to the steel below. Gun steel blueing works like that, IIRC, with the chemical being urine.
Meanwhile, like John and Martin and a whole host of others on the forum, I belong to the Chainglider Persuasion as the most nearly perfect solution available. A pity the chain tensioner on your Rohloff bike won't let you apply that easy solution.
Delighted to meet someone else who thinks lube isn't a dull subject at all!
The longer Covid restrictions stick around, the more exciting lubes become. ;)
Heh-heh!
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Interesting thread. ... No, seriously, interesting :) ;D ;D
I'm interested to know if anyone has gone down the road of adding ultrafine graphite "Dust" to the wax. From what I've heard it improves "lubrication" no end, and reduces friction. ... The wax acts as a carrier to take the graphite into the bushings on the chain. As the external wax flakes off it's as clean as non graphite treated wax.
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Interesting thread. ... No, seriously, interesting :) ;D ;D
I'm interested to know if anyone has gone down the road of adding ultrafine graphite "Dust" to the wax. From what I've heard it improves "lubrication" no end, and reduces friction. ... The wax acts as a carrier to take the graphite into the bushings on the chain. As the external wax flakes off it's as clean as non graphite treated wax.
I would definitely consider that idea. My cheapskate voice in my head is thinking "does filing down a pencil lead work like graphite" and a quick google says yes. It is graphite... https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Lubricate-a-Lock-Using-Graphite-From-a-Penc/ (https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Lubricate-a-Lock-Using-Graphite-From-a-Penc/) suggests this works.
2B or not 2B? That is the question! Perhaps HB is even better??? :-[ . Just what grade of graphite pencil would be best?
My last weekend chain wax is already over 100km since ridden. And I'm hoping to get min 500km riding out of the current wax which should take me into mid September. So if I were to grate up a pencil lead- just how much should I add to my candle mix for the next re-wax then? Is there a too much, or not enough formula?
@ Andre Jute: The Wippermann Connex X8 I thought I was using is in fact a Wippermann Connex 808 chain. I found that these outlived the Shimano chains on my derailleur bikes by a good 1000km+ each change. And I've been using nickelled versions of both brands for years. What is interesting (at least since Covid encouraged us bringing the anoraks out of the closet) is their stainless steel chain https://www.connexchain.com/en/product/connex-8sx.html (https://www.connexchain.com/en/product/connex-8sx.html) offering up to 40% more service life. Of course that depends on what they are comparing to. My 808s were getting at least 15-20% more than similar priced Shimano chains. And they might just be comparing to entry level chains. I'd considered KMC chains in the past as another good (or even better) alternative to Shimano- but after several forum searches and various online reviews, plus my own experience, I'm kind of happy with the quality and price I can pick up these 808 chains which tend to be a bit better priced that the KMC ones.
If only I hadn't ordered 3 spare 808s. It will be a while before I can justify buying an 8sx chain to try. But interested if anyone has ridden on an 8SX chain and has an opionion on it to share :-\
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I would definitely consider that idea. My cheapskate voice in my head is thinking "does filing down a pencil lead work like graphite" and a quick google says yes. It is graphite... https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Lubricate-a-Lock-Using-Graphite-From-a-Penc/ (https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Lubricate-a-Lock-Using-Graphite-From-a-Penc/) suggests this works.
2B or not 2B? That is the question! Perhaps HB is even better??? :-[ . Just what grade of graphite pencil would be best?
My last weekend chain wax is already over 100km since ridden. And I'm hoping to get min 500km riding out of the current wax which should take me into mid September. So if I were to grate up a pencil lead- just how much should I add to my candle mix for the next re-wax then? Is there a too much, or not enough formula?
I'd probably go with something like this (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100g-Graphite-powder-High-grade-lubricant/151445291893?hash=item2342d7c375:g:J34AAOSw34FVEUuT) ... not sure grinding pencil leads would work :P this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGPcHcgb1qc) gives an Idea of how to make it
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2B or not 2B? That is the question! Perhaps HB is even better??? :-[ . Just what grade of graphite pencil would be best?
I wouldn't use cheap commercial pencils as they have all kinds of rubbish in them, including kaolin clay, which you don't want in the gubbins of moving parts. However, it is easy to get really good quality pencils without wood in art shops anywhere. The Faber Castell one is called a graphite crayon and is available in several grades for a couple of quid each. But I think the best one for bicycle chain use as Aleman suggests would be the Koh-i-noor (they're the inventors of the graphite pencil about 250 years ago) woodless Progresso Aquarelle pencil, generally available in 4B as a single pencil, in the art shop in the nearest city to me for under a couple of euro. Or order it from Jackson's in London.
https://www.jacksonsart.com/koh-i-noor-4b-aquarell-woodless-water-soluble-graphite-pencil-8912
This is an all-graphite pencil with only a thin layer of lacquer to keep your fingers clean; you could take the lacquer off with a wipe of spirits but I'm not sure it is even necessary. It is a water-soluble 4B which I think would sandpaper down to be very fine, and get finer as water is splashed on the chain. I haven't tried it, but I remember being inside the arctic circle as the guest of a pipeline company, and the hinges of my laptop had frozen from the infernal cold, and a man came in with a huge barrel, dipped his finger in it and applied a bit of grease with his pinky (laughter that went on a while) and when I asked, I was told it was graphite grease and should last the laptop forever. Certainly it didn't freeze again in the rest of my time in Alaska, and shortly after returning to civilisation I gave the laptop to an Australian friend working in Africa with Medicines Sans Frontier, and he never took it to a cold place.
Art shops also sell powdered graphite in tins or jars, to be applied with a brush for smooth shading, but that would be a bit pricey for an experiment in graphite grease.
Don't buy your wax from artshops either, unless in the form of plain candles. What's sold as "wax medium" has drying oils and alkyd resin in it and will over time harden to a solid lump, solidly locking your chain and perhaps more valuable components too.
If only I hadn't ordered 3 spare 808s. It will be a while before I can justify buying an 8sx chain to try. But interested if anyone has ridden on an 8SX chain and has an opionion on it to share :-\
I have some spare Connex chains too, but I can't use them because over the years I've robbed them of their superior quick links for other chains. The reason I discovered KMC chains is that Chainreactioncycles, up the road outside Belfast, gives me free carriage and they often offer deep discounts on KMC. Then I discovered that a German firm building me a custom bike absolutely swears by KMC because they had them and some other brands tested to destruction, so I just stuck with KMC. In my opinion, KMC and Connex make the best chains for touring and utility bikes.
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I'm a sucker for magic chain oil, I have half a draw full of them, I'm tempted to mix them all together into one big bottle, though if that turned out to be the magic formula I'd never be able to replicate it. I haven't tried any of the wax products, homebrew or commercial, they always look like too much effort to me, I can't remember when i last took a chain off that wasn't worn out. My conclusion is that effort rather than product is what improves the life of an exposed chain. OK, I accept that some products may require less effort than others, but think that's very much secondary.
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Of course, some people find it therapeutic to work on their bikes. I'm not one of them. I have a bike carefully designed and developed to require near zero service: Oil change for the Rohloff and a shot of grease for its EXT clickbox once a year, brake blocks and new tyres every 5000m, new chain every 2500m, and sprockets turned every unknown multiple of 5000m -- unknown because I haven't done it yet, chainring permanent because it is steel, and my chain runs inside a Hebie Chainglider on the factory lube for its entire life so the only service is changing it for a new chain. Basically, it works out to one service a year, and every second year I wipe a near invisible layer of dust off my bike with a soft cloth -- even the lanes I ride in are blacktop, and it rains so often here, there's hardly ever dust on the road. The whole affair could be over in fifteen minutes if necessary but I leave the oil to drain for several hours, often overnight, because I'm in no hurry. It may cost a little more to throw out components with some fraction of life left in them for the convenience of a regularly scheduled service, but I grew up with cars that had to be serviced every 3000m, so it is not weird idea to me, and anyway, I'd rather throw away a chain that's half-worn than have a worn chain wreck a chainring and sprocket that might take hours to replace.
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A sarcastic "Thanks" to Andre is in order. I was perfectly happy, never thinking one single thought, ever, about chain connectors, except to wonder where I've misplaced the only one left, whenever it was needed.
Now that one line about Connex chains' superior link - and I've spent twenty minutes looking at all the choices at their site. And now I have to go to other companies sites to compare, and to scratch my head.
I love to work on bikes, motorcycles and other similar tasks. But I don't do it exactly because I like to do it, but rather that I either don't care one bit about ALL the details of a project or a switch get thrown in my head and I need to optimize every detail to try to make it flow like butter made by zen Buddhists. The end results are the goal, so things operate as best as possible, but also the process needs to be optimized. In our darkroom, I must have spent ten months optimizing the workflow to take two steps less out from enlarger to fixer and other such details. Once it was perfect my wife spent time immeasurable in there, while I, once the workflow was honed, lost most of the interest. I worry that I like bicycles that same way.
So with that said, and in that context, do chains make a difference enough to be felt? A new, properly installed and lubed chain versus something worn out, I think is obviously a palpable difference. But do you find that one brand versus another or the lower end versus the higher end; is it something we actually feel, do you all think?
I bought eight chains when in REI about five years ago. Four were for one speed and four for 9speed. They were the Sram PC-991 and PC-1 chains, which I think were mid grade chains. Now REI is not a smart place to shop if one is at all cost conscious. Hipster pricing. But the chains were 8 and 14 dollars back then. Now that I need the ultimate chain link (which version is it?) I see that chains with German parents start about 50 dollars, and go past 80 bucks. Will I feel something sublime upgrading. I assume angels will sing as I pedal while peddling with lightened wallet. Or whats the scoop?
Now I look and
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2B or not 2B? That is the question! Perhaps HB is even better??? :-[ . Just what grade of graphite pencil would be best?
I wouldn't use cheap commercial pencils as they have all kinds of rubbish in them, including kaolin clay, which you don't want in the gubbins of moving parts. However, it is easy to get really good quality pencils without wood in art shops anywhere. The Faber Castell one is called a graphite crayon and is available in several grades for a couple of quid each. But I think the best one for bicycle chain use as Aleman suggests would be the Koh-i-noor (they're the inventors of the graphite pencil about 250 years ago) woodless Progresso Aquarelle pencil, generally available in 4B as a single pencil, in the art shop in the nearest city to me for under a couple of euro. Or order it from Jackson's in London.
The artisan all lead pencil is a great idea. As an occasional dabbler in the creative arts I actually have a couple of these on hand should the muse ever take me. With less time to paint or draw I’ve wandered to photography since I have kids, but those 4B pencils will find a new use methinks now you’ve suggested it. And grinding to a powder is a simple as using a pencil sharpener if I remove the non graphite outer coating first. Yaaay! This is the kind of fix I like repurposing and reusing stuff I already have on hand.
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Then of course, there is the graphite powder sold in Art supply stores.
But adding this to wax is silly in my opinion as it won't change the coefficient of friction between the wax and mating surfaces because I can't see it getting to in-between rubbing surfaces in any degree, if wax is already present.
Were I to go down the rabit hole of overthinking, I'd then be inclined to use molybdenum disulfide, as it is slicker and heat is not a thing in cycling.
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Were I to go down the rabit hole of overthinking, I'd then be inclined to use molybdenum disulfide, as it is slicker and heat is not a thing in cycling.
I've gone down the PTFE powder rabbit hole ... Boy is my chain noisy :( ... Although that may be that I didn't remove excess wax from the chain, and also didn't 'Free' the chain up before fitting it ... may take the chain off again and warm it through again, and wipe off the excess wax this time
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Were I to go down the rabit hole of overthinking, I'd then be inclined to use molybdenum disulfide, as it is slicker and heat is not a thing in cycling.
I've gone down the PTFE powder rabbit hole.
Molten Speed Wax goes down both those rabbit holes. It contains Teflon (=PTFE) and molybdenum disulphide.
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I wonder if there are any future chain breakthroughs to be?
I don't know anything about ceramics. I wonder if a ceramic chain could be strong enough for the forces, or if not, then perhaps a ceramic coating? I wonder if there could be any advantage? Perhaps we could save 2, or perhaps even three grams, and could ceramic surfaces be run without grease?
We'd then be in the day of 400 dollar chains. I hope no marketers are lurking. :D
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Think Delft patterns on your ceramic chain. Definitely worth 400$.
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Think Delft patterns on your ceramic chain. Definitely worth 400$.
Sold by the link perhaps? :D
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Molten Speed Wax goes down both those rabbit holes. It contains Teflon (=PTFE) and molybdenum disulphide.
As I said up thread, I'm using Molten Speed Wax. My chains are very noisy (KMC B1/narrow/silver) I would have thought that wax/PTFE would make them supper slippery and silent but that's not the case...they make a right racket.... :(
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As I said up thread, I'm using Molten Speed Wax. My chains are very noisy (KMC B1/narrow/silver) I would have thought that wax/PTFE would make them supper slippery and silent but that's not the case...they make a right racket.... :(
I currently have 6 family bikes using the Molten Speed Wax.
My old utility bike has a Chainglider, which probably masks any noise coming from the chain. 3 of the bikes without Chaingliders (old derailleur bike, a Brompton, an old hub-geared visitor bike on which I can't fit a Chainglider) have reasonably quiet chains. On one of the Bromptons the chain is noisy enough for me to notice. I don't know yet for the 6th bike, it is my wife's Brompton, which doesn't get very much use.
My 1st theory is that maybe I didn't agitate the chain that makes a noise sufficiently when it was in the wax bath, so I'll swap it out a bit sooner than was planned and see if the replacement chain makes the same noise.
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In my case it was because I hadn't threaded it through the derailleur properly :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Once I did that, it was as quiet as anything.
On the subject of what to add to wax, and contents of 'Magic' solutions ;D "Oz Cycles" on youtube has some interesting videos. I believe he's done a lot of testing of different formulations, compared with commercial equivalents, and I finally followed his guide and recipe >>> here <<< (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHr9znwpwmQ). I did think of using molylbdenum disulphide, or even better, tungsten disulphide, instead of / as well as the PTFE, but as they are brown / black compounds decided against it on the grounds of wanting my chain to look clean ;D ;D ;D WS2 has a lower coefficient of friction than PTFE for those of you wanting the ultimate watt saving wax lube ;)
Just degreasing OEM Lube on the KMC chains on the Raven Twin then heat up the wax cooker and apply the wax.
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Just put a waxed chain on another bike and noticed another small drawback to using wax, which applies only to hub-geared or single-speed bikes without tensioners, and maybe only to fairly well used chains.
The bike is an old hub-geared bike used occasionally by my wife and sometimes by visitors. I had to move the wheel forwards in the dropouts by several millimeters before I could fit the chain. After that I rode the bike a couple of kms so that the chain slackened up, before adjusting the wheel position in the dropouts again and then finally refitting the Chainglider.
My theory is that the wax fills up the little gaps inside the (reasonably well used) chain, making it seem like it has no wear at all when trying to fit it. Pedalling then compresses the wax, so that it goes back to the original length it had before waxing.
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My theory is that the wax fills up the little gaps inside the (reasonably well used) chain, making it seem like it has no wear at all when trying to fit it. Pedalling then compresses the wax, so that it goes back to its original length before waxing.
Sounds about right. Sheldon Brown was very keen on oiling only one edge of the chain, on the theory that if you oil a single side of the chain between the plates and tubes, the oil will run in and lubricate the whole thing, whereas oil on both sides of the chain can cause an air block in the middle so that the service undermines itself. I see no reason the same shouldn't apply to wax.
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I managed 620km on last wax. I rode on a couple of heavy rain days in week after waxing. What I noticed was that about 605km the chain became audible, which sound like first 7 gears on the hub, but on all gears. It was still riding Ok with no skipping, but annoyingly and progressively louder till I got home. Waxed and refitted chain and already 160km smooth and quiet again. The nice thing was even with removal and refitting my hands only got grubby but not oily. So plain soap and water to clean up after.
I will try the graphite trick in the wax another time. But I'm pretty converted to wax vice oil on the chain so far.
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Since last wax I’d been lucky in having mostly dry rides and clocked up around 900km on the candle wax. It was still riding smoothly too when I cleaned and reward last week as part of my 5000km servicing. This time I added a new Hebie chainglider to the equation and I am hoping that being protected from the elements will extend Ikea candle waxing intervals past 1000km. Chain is now 5000km old and still riding well.
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Final update on using IKEA candle wax vice traditional lube. Last wax was at time I fitted a Hebie Chainglider. I rode a couple of times without my computer on, but estimate approx 1500-1600km since waxing.
Although the chain was behaving OK I noticed yesterday it was becoming louder, and as I had to remove the wheel to fit some studded winter tyres I decided not to push chain any further but to lube it as I had the chain partially exposed to get wheel off.
Chainglider was pretty clean on inside save for wax that had worn off through daily use. As Chainglider should keep oiled chain clear of crud and decided to use regular chain oil this time.
My personal takeaway from the experiment is that I found no major disadvantages on using candle wax vice chain oil given that the Connex Quicklink is so easy to remove the chain, and the few more minutes to bathe the chain in wax is saved by not having to lube so often with oil. The chain definitely stayed cleaner and in turn so did my legs and bike from oily residues.
The downside is as the wax wears down you cannot judge when it needs a new lube until chain suddenly becomes noisy. It is difficult to judge this visibly, so it might catch you at an inconvenient time.
Now I have the Chainglider I am hoping it keeps an oiled chain serviceable for longer as the oil shouldn’t wear off like the wax does.
But I will definitely use wax on my derailleur bikes where a Chainglider is not possible as I believe it keeps chain cleaner which should reduce wear and extend life between services.
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Fascinating.
Now that you have a Chainglider, Steve, next time you fit a new chain, take a deep breath, do not disturb the factory lube, and run the chain exclusively on the factory lube inside the Chainglider, and report here on how far it carries you before you replace the chain. I got 4506km at 0.5mm wear, which, for me, is fabulously good.
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Fascinating.
Now that you have a Chainglider, Steve, next time you fit a new chain, take a deep breath, do not disturb the factory lube, and run the chain exclusively on the factory lube inside the Chainglider, and report here on how far it carries you before you replace the chain. I got 4506km at 0.5mm wear, which, for me, is fabulously good.
Hi Andre
Based on previous reports from your dabbling in chain alchemy, which helped convince me chainglider was way to go, this is exactly my plan.
I'm hoping current chain will hold out to reach 10,000km of which the first 5000 or so we're without chainglider. I will endeavour to attempt to replicate your achievements on number of km on chain lube, of which I'm confident is doable with the glider.
Cheers
Steve