Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Luggage => Topic started by: mickeg on July 14, 2019, 02:46:18 pm
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I occasionally had questions on how I fit my Nomad into an S&S case. So, I have posted four photos here of how it went together when I unpacked it upon arriving in Halifax, NS Canada for my most recent trip.
The Nomad is size 590M. I really do not think I could have packed a bigger frame size in the case. I can't fit the fenders (mudguards) into the case with it. The rear rack goes into my other checked luggage because of size and shape. My Nomad has drop bars, that makes it even more complicated. And the Nomad is a heavy bike, I usually put the saddle and pedals in a different bag to keep the weight down to the airline limit. In USA (where I reside) the limit is 50 pounds, that is a hair under the common 23 kg limit elsewhere.
The fork steerer tube has been cut down to a total fork length of about 29 inches or about 73 cm.
The S&S Backpack case has backpack straps that make it fairly easy to transport for short distances. It tips the scale at a bit over 3 kg. No wheels, it is a soft case that has four semi-rigid panels that go in the sides and are held in with velcro. I find that leaving the corner velcro straps slightly loose is necessary to assemble it. I have also put sheets of corroplast in the large square panels for extra stiffening. The case is 26 X 26 X 10 inches in size that exactly matches the common USA airline limit of 62 inches (width+length+thickness). Or in SI units, that is roughly 66 X 66 X 25 cm.
The side panels being semi-rigid allows a few bulges to stick out here and there, I do not know if the bike can actually be fit in a hard case of the same size, I would not be surprised if it would not fit.
As those of you with Nomads know, the front fork has the canti brake posts on the back instead of the front. Thus the fork will not lie flat in the case without consuming a lot of space. I have put the fork inside the rear triangle for packing. I make sure that all of the headset parts are placed on the steerer tube in the correct order and orientation when I pack the bike so that it simplifies putting the fork back on the frame. I have often had trouble getting the fork packed this way, I am inclined to remove my brakes from the frame and possibly the fork in the future to make packing the fork a bit easier.
I also used a home fabricated center support of a couple small rectangles of thin plywood and two long skinny wood cylinders, that is apparent in some photos. This was not included when I bought the S&S case, I wanted extra protection for the bike.
A few bits of trivia that are not apparent in the photos:
- I use bolt on skewers when touring.
- When I pack the bike I have a plastic tube that is 135mm long in between the rear dropouts, held in with skewer.
This is to protect the frame.
- There are many stories of bikes being removed from S&S cases by airport security and then the security
personnel can't remember how it came out so they just force it all back in the case, damaging or destroying
the bike. Thus, I try to tie the frame and wheels together so that the package can be lifted out of the case.
And I include a note saying that in the case. And the note tells them to contact me for assistance with my
cell number.
- I used to use two sided velcro to hold much of the bike in a single unit, but am now also using some zip ties too.
- Tires mostly deflated, this is needed to make it all fit as the tires can be squished down.
- Many people use frame padding over all tubes. I instead just use smaller bits of padding (green in photos)
where padding is most needed.
- Both crank arms (square taper) have to be removed to get it all in. In other words, almost the entire bike
has to be disassembled.
- The dropout spacing consumes a lot of space, one wheel is placed above and one below the rear triangle.
The dropouts are in a corner.
- The front frame member is on the bottom of the stack.
- The corner of the case where the dropouts are is the thickest part of the package. If the front frame
member is under the wheel in that corner, that will make the package too thick to fit in the case. In
that corner, the wheel as to be on the bottom of the case. The other wheel is on top of the stack.
Off topic note: I have also packed my folding bike in the S&S case, that bike is a derailleur bike. I find things fit better if I remove the rear cassette when I pack that bike. That way I can put the two wheels together, the freehub body goes in between front wheel spokes to make the two wheels less thick when stacked. The wide hub shell on the Rohloff makes the rear wheel quite thick, unfortunately you can't make it thinner by removing a cassette or anything like that.
The photos are in reverse order of when I took the photos.
First photo - the fork zip tied to the frame rear triangle. In the future I expect to make this simpler by removing the brakes too.
Second photo - the frame parts and wheels were lifted out of the case as a single unit and placed on the flagstone ground surface. Thus you can see how the two frame members and two wheels sit together. The front frame member is on the bottom in the stack, then the front wheel on top of that, then the rear triangle and then the rear wheel on top.
Third photo, that same frame and wheel bundle inside the S&S Backpack case. The white color is the sheet of corroplast that I put in to stiffen the case.
Fourth photo, this includes a lot of the rest of stuff shoved in where there was room, such as seatpost, water bottles, tool kit, water bottle cages, these were loose parts that were just shoved in. The crankset is in a padded package. Many of the other parts are in zip lock bags to hold things together.
Next post, first photo - The luggage I took to Halifax for my trip. The S&S case, a large backpack was my other checked bag. Historically I have used Ortlieb roll top panniers, but I bought the rear Carradry panniers a number of years ago and never really used them. Decided to try them on the trip. I had to make the lower hook, as the Carradry stock pannier lower hook will not work with the Tubus Logo EVO. Front panniers, I bought those from someone having a garage sale for less than $10 USD, I decided that the gray front panniers went best with the gray rear panniers. The Carradry pannier was my carry on bag, the front Axiom pannier was my "personal item". And I wear the helmet onto the plane so that airline luggage handlers do not have an opportunity to break it.
Second photo - Everything arrived in Halifax.
Third photo - The bike while on that tour.
Forth photo - this photo is three years old from my Iceland trip. I put short sleeves of inner tube rubber over the ends of my S&S coupler "nuts" to keep the dirt and crud out of the threads.
If any of you try to pack up a bike this way, it is best to do this well ahead of time so you are not checking the time every five minutes to see if you will miss your flight. Packing the bike along with the disassembly is very time consuming. The bike is pretty much fully disassembled.
I built up the bike myself, built the wheels, etc. So, I am quite comfortable doing this, but some that are less mechanically inclined might be better off not attempting this. Or if they do, keep good photo documentation of what the bike is supposed to look like when you are done.
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I added a photo of the case the way I stored it at the Hostel in Halifax during my trip. The orange backpack was also stored inside the case. The side panels were removed to collapse the size down much thinner.
And if anyone is wondering why I go through the hassle of packing and reassembling the bike instead of shipping it in a big bike box, a smaller case really helps with logistics. The convenience of having a bike in a case that is a size that will fit in the trunk of the taxi that I take to and from the airport is just as important as avoiding oversize fees. The local taxi companies that I usually use drive Prius taxis. I can fit both the S&S Backpack case and also the other checked bag in the trunk.
On this tour, the bike in the S&S case rode in two taxi cabs, two multi-state bus rides, two motel shuttle van trips, and two airport-to-downtown shuttle bus trips. Thus the non-monetary convenience of a smaller case made that tour (international) a lot easier. I will readily admit that the time to pack a bike in an S&S case and reassemble later is much more time consuming that in a full size bike box. So there also are disadvantages to coupled bikes. You have to weigh all the aspects and options to figure out what works best for you.
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What a nicely done topic, George!
I'm sure this information will prove helpful to those contemplating S&S couplings as well as those who have them but have not yet shipped their bikes in a compact, airline-compliant case.
Best,
Dan.
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Exemplary summary, George, both with text and photos.
The only thing I'd add (with respect) for readers, is that you don't have to do all this to go to & enjoy Halifax and surrounds. Without a doubt, tho', a Nomad or similar will help you do so ;)
Cheers, John
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... you don't have to do all this to go to & enjoy Halifax and surrounds. Without a doubt, tho', a Nomad or similar will help you do so ;)
Cheers, John
Yeah, lots of other bikes were being used when I was there.
I think my Nomad and its strength and weight capacity was overkill as the roads and trails were not that rough so a bike like my Sherpa would have been more than adequate most of teh time. But I really liked having the lower gearing that my Nomad has than my Sherpa which has derailleur gearing.
I brought the Nomad because it has S&S, the Sherpa does not.
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I think my Nomad and its strength and weight capacity was overkill
I've found that my Raven is plenty robust for the places I use it, maybe even overbuilt, as an e-friend Down Unda remarked. Like you with your Nomad, I've found that the low gearing of the Raven is ideal for hilly terrain such as the Cdn Shield and Atlantic Canada.
The compactness of your kit is remarkable, George, and you're right about how manageable it is. I have a high-quality cardboard box which I bought from shipbike.com, in Chicago, for USD40. It works well for shipping my bike as checked baggage, but at 11" x 31" x 43" (total 85 linear inches), it's a bit of a hassle when I'm loading it onto a train, along with other gear.
Cheers, John
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The compactness of your kit is remarkable, George, and you're right about how manageable it is.
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Another photo, this one is from about 15 months ago, I am walking out of an airport wearing the S&S Backpack case on my back with my folding bike in it, carrying my carry on bag (Ortlieb 31 liter duffle) in one hand and using a wheely cart to tow my other checked bag with my other hand. The S&S case being black with a dark background for the photo makes it hard to tell that I am wearing it but you can clearly see the shoulder straps over my shoulders.
Unfortunately, I can't quite fit the anti-gravity machine into my luggage to lighten the load.
A luggage scale is the travelers best friend. On the trip out of Halifax my S&S case and other checked bag weighed 22.9 kg each, just a hair below the airline limit.
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Good read
My wife is American (Texas) and I have thought about taking a bike over and how that would work .
I fancy trying a cruise on the qe2 but not sure if they would let you take a fully built up bike or if your would have to get some sort of case. Or if S+S is the way to go for world travelling . Hmmm
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Or if S+S is the way to go for world travelling . Hmmm
Perhaps you should be looking at the Airnimal range https://airnimal.co/products/products-overview/. They do custom builds and offer the Rohloff hub as an option.
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Good read
My wife is American (Texas) and I have thought about taking a bike over and how that would work .
I fancy trying a cruise on the qe2 but not sure if they would let you take a fully built up bike or if your would have to get some sort of case. Or if S+S is the way to go for world travelling . Hmmm
I am not sure if Thorn has completely discontinued S&S options or not. It is my understanding that the Nomad Mk III does not have an S&S option like my Mk II. There are many other brands of bikes that have S&S as an option.
Ritchey Break Away bikes are also a coupled bike, their case is slightly larger than the USA oversize limit, but owners of those bikes have told me that airlines rarely measure the case size. That said, Delta and American airlines in USA dropped their oversize fees for bicycles. But that is a much more rare bike, I have one that is badged as a Raleigh but also has the Ritchey logo on the frame, that is the only Break Away bike that I have seen that is badged as a brand other than Ritchey.
And there are lots of different folding bikes out there. JohnR mentioned Airnimal. I have an Airnimal Joey, that is my folding bike. But it is a 24 inch wheel size, and packing that for travel in my S&S case is almost as time consuming as packing my S&S bike. Folding bikes with 20 inch wheels may work better for packing if you consider folding as an option.
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Mickeyg, can you post the list of tools that you use for the (dis)assembly?
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Mickeyg, can you post the list of tools that you use for the (dis)assembly?
I do not have a specific list. But this is a guess:
Thorn S&S wrench that came with the frame.
XLC crank arm puller for square taper cranks.
A piece of straight 8mm allen wrench that I cut from an L shaped one, I can use that with the S&S wrench to remove crank arms with my XLC crank arm puller tool.
Shop sized M3, M4, M5 allen wrenches.
Small side cutter for cutting zip ties.
Crank Brothers multi tool, I think it is the 17 tool version.
T20 wrench.
Wrench (open end or box end) for 8mm and 10mm hex head bolts.
Not specific to assembly or disassembly, but bring:
Small folding pliers
Two pieces of plastic straws cut to 100mm, together they are 200mm in case I need to cut a cable.
The Rohloff sprocket removal tool (this was on Andy Blance list) but I have never used on a tour.
Tire levers.
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Curious: why did you cut the L shaped M8?
Also why do you carry separate M3,M4,M5 and the half M8, when all these are present in all multi tools (maybe M8 isn't?) ?
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The Thorn S&S wrench has a 8mm hex hole in it. This is the wrench I have.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/thorn-s-and-s-5-in-1-spanner-wrench-special-coupling-eccentric-tool/
So, a short piece of 8mm hex shaped allen wrench that is straight can be inserted into that hole to turn the Thorn wrench into an 8mm allen wrench with adequate leverage.
If you are building up a complete bike or disassembling it, it is a real time saver to have shop sized tools instead of a little multitool.
There are Y shaped 4, 5 and 6mm allen wrenches that I could use instead of the 4 and 5 that I bring, but I still would need a different 3mm too.
My bottle cages use a 3mm allen wrench. That is six screws and I do not want to mess with a tiny little pocket sized multi-tool wrench for that, would rather bring a real wrench. Many cages would work with a 4mm allen wrench, but not the cages I use, so I need the 3mm.
I have also bought a Prestacycle ratchet and allen wrench set that also had the torx bits, I might bring this instead of the shop sized tools in the future, not sure when the next trip will be but I have time to sort this out later. With an additional extension or two for the bits, this might be a better option. I will worry about this later.
https://www.prestacycle.com/product/prestaratchet-multi-tool-kit-ratchet-wtire-lever-handle/
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Mickeg, I see on your picture that you use some handlebag. Can you write about that (or other more recent bag that you use)? Am I right in guessing that one of the considerations was to have a bag that can be squeezed into one of the panniers while on the flight?
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I just came up with an idea to use the whole trolley-bag (55x40x23 cm) and carry-on bag (personal item) (40x30x20 cm) limit to it's maximum:
The 40 L (2x20) Ortlieb panniers are: h: 42cm, upper w: 32cm, lower w: 23cm, d: 17cm
My idea is to pack 2 of the rear panniers almost fully (keep them a little bit thin) and put them in a huge plastic bag. Or just use the bungee cords to hold the two together this way (see attached image), that would give roughly a (32+23)x42x17 cm pack, utilizing the maximum trolley-size. If it's not tightly packed then it should be possible to fit it to the cage the cheap airlines use to check the size.
As for the carry-on item:
I could even take the handlebar-bag as is (the 6.5 l version: 24x13x18) in a plastic bag (or a dry bag that could be fixed with bungee on the rear rack) as the carry-on bag and even have some extra clothes thrown below it. This should be enough for a 10 days trip, without front panniers.
Hopefully there will be enough space in the S&S soft case for tent poles and stakes and the swiss army knife :)
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attachment for the previous comment:
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Handlebar bag is almost a decade old, long discontinued.
On one trip it was my personal item to carry on the plane, the other it was inside my checked bag.
Why would you want the bag to be empty in a bigger bag on the plane? Fill it with stuff and pack that in a bag.
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I bought the S&S coupled Nomad 565L :)
I am about to buy the things I'll need for getting the bike back home (and for the tour)
Which one of these frame protectors fits the Nomad?
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessories/s-and-s-machine-cordura-frame-protection-padding-75-inch-width-per-10-ft-roll/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessories/s-and-s-machine-cordura-frame-protection-padding-9-inch-width-per-5-ft-roll/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessories/s-and-s-machine-cordura-frame-protection-padding-4-inch-width-per-5-ft-roll/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessories/s-and-s-machine-cordura-frame-protection-padding-55-inch-width-per-5-ft-roll/
I also plan to cut 2 pieces of plastic tube to put between the fork and the rear triangle with the QR axle to keep them from bending. What dimensions should the pipes be?
Also: do I need any tool for detaching/attaching the cable splitters or is that done by bare hand?
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I bought the S&S coupled Nomad 565L :)
I am about to buy the things I'll need for getting the bike back home (and for the tour)
Which one of these frame protectors fits the Nomad?
Congrats on the new bike, hope it's everything you hope it'll be.
The trad method of protecting frames in transit, and what Thorn use when shipping new bike, is pipe lagging. Cheap and effective, though not as easy to carry around between uses. I haven't seen those purpose made protectors, I'm not sure they'd be my first choice, though anything helps. When I bag my Airnimal for travel, I use neoprene strips, a fraction of the price, I just wrap a bit of tape round them, I keep meaning to sew some Velcro on, but laziness has prevented me! For dropout protectors, I don't think you can beat the right purpose made thing and any bike shop probably have some that will otherwise go in the trash. If you want to cut pipe it'll be 100 and 135mm.
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I bought the S&S coupled Nomad 565L :)
I am about to buy the things I'll need for getting the bike back home (and for the tour)
Which one of these frame protectors fits the Nomad?
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessories/s-and-s-machine-cordura-frame-protection-padding-75-inch-width-per-10-ft-roll/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessories/s-and-s-machine-cordura-frame-protection-padding-9-inch-width-per-5-ft-roll/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessories/s-and-s-machine-cordura-frame-protection-padding-4-inch-width-per-5-ft-roll/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessories/s-and-s-machine-cordura-frame-protection-padding-55-inch-width-per-5-ft-roll/
I also plan to cut 2 pieces of plastic tube to put between the fork and the rear triangle with the QR axle to keep them from bending. What dimensions should the pipes be?
Also: do I need any tool for detaching/attaching the cable splitters or is that done by bare hand?
I do not use any of that S&S branded padding. I have used plastic shelf liner in pieces approximately 40 X 40cm and 40 X 80cm.
The first post in this thread, the second or third photos, where you see green, that is the plastic that I am talking about. It is very soft plastic. I only put it against the parts of the bike that are physically in contact with other parts, so that they do not chaff against each other.
Some people buy the padding that can be wrapped around tubes and secured with velcro, or padded tubing that can be slid over the tubes. But in my opinion, it is a touring bike, a few nicks in the paint are expected.
But if you want to give it a lot of protection, go ahead. That however could make it harder to fit in the case.
The plastic tubes that I use between the dropouts are 100 and 135mm in length, 135mm in rear. I would suggest against quick release levers for that, as that might be a good way to damage a lever if something pressed against it. On my Iceland trip, as I was packing up my bike to leave, two Italians asked me if I knew where a bike shop was that was open (it was on a Sunday), I did not know where any bike shops were and told them that. Both of them had front skewers that had been bent when their bikes were shipped. They were stranded until they could replace the skewers.
I use Halo brand XL skewers that require a 5mm allen wrench to open and close. (I carry a spare 5mm allen wrench with my spare tubes.) I mainly do that as a theft preventative measure, but there is no lever sticking out that could be bent in packing the bike. I think I cut the front Halo skewer to be shorter. The thick dropouts on the Nomad Mk II is why I bought the XL version.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/black-halo-xl-hex-key-skewer-set/?geoc=US
There is only one spring on the Halo brand skewers, most use two. And one end has a tab, the tab goes in the slot of the dropout to keep the nut from turning, that tab can be bent if you do not make sure it is in the slot. So, the Halo ones take a bit of getting used to for installation compared to other brands.
If I recall correctly, there is only one cable splitter on the Nomad Mk II S&S frame. I think it is intended to be used with the rear brake. I do not use that splitter. I am pretty sure that no tools are needed to split it and re-connect it. I think it has a tiny little setscrew that uses a very small allen wrench when a cable has to be changed, but I have not looked at it for years, I could be wrong on that. I am more used to the Ritchey brand splitters.
If you are new to the Nomad Mk II, you may have seen comments on this forum that people found a need to replace the eccentric. I can only think of two reasons for that, (1) corrosion may have made it stick to the frame or to the bottom bracket or (2) it became grooved where the setscrews indent the eccentric in too many places.
In this posting, I describe how I adjust the chain to make sure that the eccentric does not become grooved.
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14475
If you ever lose one of those set screws that Thorn uses to hold the eccentric in place, you might have trouble sourcing a replacement. I bought a spare to carry on tour, although I likely will never need it because of my "rubber bands" that prevent the set screws from vibrating loose and falling out.
Mine is a 590M, a bit bigger than yours. I suspect that yours will pack into a case easier than I do for that reason. And if yours is flat bars instead of drop bars, that should make it even easier.
If you do not have a small luggage scale, I suggest you get one. It will help avoid over-weight charges when you fly. I think the cheaper ones are as good as the more expensive ones, you mainly want a very tiny one that is easy to pack because on a trip you likely will only use it at the start and finish.
If you have to replace a shifter cable, Rohloff instructions use a metal tube that is 200mm long. I instead carry two pieces of plastic drinking straw that is 100mm each. But I also carry a cable that is cut to length. Last time I changed cables, I made sure that I had a third one cut to the right length for that purpose.
Some of the Rohloff specific screws use a T20 wrench. Buy one to carry on a tour in case the shifter comes loose from the handlebar. Also used in a few other places. They are quite cheap at a good hardware store.
Look at the Thorn video on changing Rohloff oil before you try it. I do not recall the link.
If you have CSS rims, they take special brake pads.
That is about all I can think of that you need to know. First time you pack the bike in a case, take lots of photos of how you unpacked it so that you can refer to the photos next time to refresh your memory on how it all goes together. It is an iterative process to get it packed, as different sized bikes get packed differently. Thorn says that the fork will not fit in the case, but I pack the fork in the case. When I have flown with my Nomad Mk II, I had two checked bags, some things would not fit in the bike case, like the rear rack. And the case and bike exceed the weight limits for airlines, so some of it has to go in the other bag.
Good luck.
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Some of the Rohloff specific screws use a T20 wrench. Buy one to carry on a tour in case the shifter comes loose from the handlebar. Also used in a few other places.
There used to be Thorn's own multitool which included T20 but it appears to have been discontinued. Another multitool which includes T20 (albeit very small) is the Topeak X-Tool+.
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There used to be Thorn's own multitool which included T20
This one?
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/thorn-cycles-20-function-multi-tool-cordura-case-with-t20-tool-ideal-for-rohloff/
It's a wonderful tool, I've carried it for thousands of miles and it's kept all breakdowns away, so hasn't been used!
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There used to be Thorn's own multitool which included T20
This one?
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/thorn-cycles-20-function-multi-tool-cordura-case-with-t20-tool-ideal-for-rohloff/
It's a wonderful tool, I've carried it for thousands of miles and it's kept all breakdowns away, so hasn't been used!
Thanks. I looked but couldn't find it although it was hiding in plain sight.
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https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/thorn-cycles-20-function-multi-tool-cordura-case-with-t20-tool-ideal-for-rohloff/
It's a wonderful tool, I've carried it for thousands of miles and it's kept all breakdowns away, so hasn't been used!
Thanks. I looked but couldn't find it although it was hiding in plain sight.
I'm sure it used to be branded as something else and available elsewhere. I can't remember what or where and it's been bugging me since I posted earlier. If anyone knows, please put me out of my misery...
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I'm sure it used to be branded as something else and available elsewhere. I can't remember what or where and it's been bugging me since I posted earlier. If anyone knows, please put me out of my misery...
The only bike fittings that I have run across that needed a Torx tool with a size 20 had a Rohloff or B&M light. Tubus racks come with Torx bolts, but I always used allen wrench bolts so I do not know if the Tubus bolts were T20 or not.
And with the rare usage of T20 bolts on bikes, I have never seen a multi-tool come with a T20. T25, yes, a lot of disc rotor bolts are that size so that is common on multi-tools.
So, if someone else made that tool before Thorn, it would be a surprise to me.
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I am now unpacking the bike and reassembling it. I found this "thing" in the bag, must have been fallen off from somewhere but I can't find where it fits. Any idea?
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I do not recognize that.
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One more thing.
If you have the fork out of the frame, look inside the head tube to see if you can see openings for the top tube and down tube. Or, is there a piece of tape that covers those openings?
If there is no tape, put a piece of tape over the openings.
When it rains, water can get past the top headset and into the headtube. And if there is no tape covering the openings, water could get into the top tube and down tube. And those tubes are sealed at the other ends, so the water would accumulate instead of drain out.
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I am now unpacking the bike and reassembling it. I found this "thing" in the bag, must have been fallen off from somewhere but I can't find where it fits. Any idea?
Possibly the dust seal from the crank bolt, look at both sides and see if there's one missing!